Life Ban: Officer thinks he lied

[Legumes 3]

My brother in-law was granted a temporary visitor's visa in 2014 and he came for 2 weeks to the US then and left when he was supposed to. 

When he applied for the visa again, he was banned for life. The consulate officer did not believe he was an English teacher (but he is and has been for years). He did not believe him because he didn't think his English was good enough. 

My brother in law just applied again for the visitors visa but was told he had a life ban from his previous interview. 

Is there anything he can do to challenge this? How can he get the ban removed? He never lied and the last time he came into the US he came in legally and did not over-stay his visa. He just wants to be able to visit us. 

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

Is this a 212(a)(9)(C) bar?  If so, my understanding is that he can not even request a waiver until he has been outside the US for 10 years.

Edited May 25, 2019 by missileman

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

Are you sure you got the whole story from your brother in law? It sounds extreme to have a lifetime ban just because an officer thinks you were not truthful. There is a certain burden of proof (I’m not sure that’s the official terminology but that’s the idea) needed to impose a lifetime ban for misrep or fraud, and it needs to be in regard to a material fact regarding a visa application. We have seen such bans in connection with people submitting falsified documents, which are cases where the proof is there. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[JFH 12,191]

Something is not right here. A lifetime ban is given for a material misrepresentation. Now, whilst lying about your profession (whether he lied or not is another matter, neither you nor I were present at his interview so we don’t know for certain what was said) is a misrepresentation, a lie, it’s not a material misrepresentation as this only applies where the information given changed the outcome of the application or the eligibility for the visa. So, if a grocery clerk or a cleaner claimed to be a teacher for a tourist visa application this wouldn’t be material misrepresentation as clerks and cleaners are eligible for tourist visas just as teachers are. Material misrep would be claiming to be unmarried for a fiancé visa when you are married, or denying a criminal record, etc. 

[Going through 5,671]

I don't think you're getting the whole story here from your brother in law.  The CO determining that the applicant doesn't speak good enough English to be an English teacher does not lead to a lifetime ban...

[JFH 12,191]

Just now, SusieQQQ said:

Are you sure you got the whole story from your brother in law? It sounds extreme to have a lifetime ban just because an officer thinks you were not truthful. There is a certain burden of proof (I’m not sure that’s the official terminology but that’s the idea) needed to impose a lifetime ban for misrep or fraud. We have seen such bans in connection with people submitting falsified documents, which are cases where the proof is there. 

Yes, it would have to be proven that the misrep was material and that the correct version of events would have made the person ineligible for the benefit sought. Pretty much any profession apart from terrorist or other hardened criminals is eligible to apply for a tourist visa. I can’t see how saying you are a teacher when in fact you drive a truck (for example) would be material when it comes to a tourist visa. 

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

1 minute ago, Going through said:

I don't think you're getting the whole story here from your brother in law.  The CO determining that the applicant doesn't speak good enough English to be an English teacher does not lead to a lifetime ban...

^^^^THIS^^^^^^    There is definitely something else going on here.....

[WeGuyGal 1,052]

So he got the visa in 2014 and visited for 2 weeks. 

He applied a second time some years after that and was denied and was told he had a ban? 

He applied a 3rd time recently and was re-informed of the lifetime ban? 

 

Something is amiss.  Something is missing. As noted several times here, what the BIL stated would not get him a lifetime ban. 

[jan22 3,056]

4 hours ago, JFH said:

Yes, it would have to be proven that the misrep was material and that the correct version of events would have made the person ineligible for the benefit sought. Pretty much any profession apart from terrorist or other hardened criminals is eligible to apply for a tourist visa. I can’t see how saying you are a teacher when in fact you drive a truck (for example) would be material when it comes to a tourist visa. 

While a person in any profession can APPLY for a visa, it doesn't mean that all of them are equal in terms of possible approval for a vusa.  There are some in each country that are viewed as better professions for visa approval because of the status of the job, the salary, the benefits, the stability of the employment, etc, etc, etc.  (What those professions are varies from country to country, BTW.)  So, while it is unlikely that lying about your employment would result in a fraud/misrepresentation ban, it could, in fact, be considered a material misrepresentation.

 

Also, the misrepresentation could be from the 2014 application in which the visa was issued.  The officer now didn't believe he was an English teacher --and could have concluded that the visa was issued in 2014 because the officer then believed he was and that misrepresentation helped him to get that visa.

Edited May 26, 2019 by jan22

[carmel34 3,650]

Did he take evidence to the interview to support his claim that he is in fact an English teacher?  Sometimes they don't look at it, but in this case, if the officer made the statement you mentioned in your post, your BIL could have produced documentation to support his profession, like a letter from the employer.  If it is in fact a lifetime ban, he may have put something on his most recent visa application that was different from his previous one, not realizing that they have all the previous visa applications in their computer system.  I would assume that before his interview the CO compared both visa applications to see if they were consistent.  Did he fill in the application this time 100% the same as the last time?  Maybe he forgot to mention that he had a visa in 2014 or said he was married when in fact he was single, those important details.  Did he mention on his visa application that he had family members living in the US?  It's impossible to know without more details from him about the visa interview questions, his answers, and the details he wrote in both visa applications.  Sorry that this happened but they wouldn't give a lifetime ban for what you described, as it doesn't fit the normal pattern at all as reported by many stories here on VJ.

[Legumes 3]

Hi everyone! Thank you all for your responses. I think you guys are right and it has nothing to do with them not believing he was an English teacher. 

So, I asked him for more information and here is the update:

He was barred under 214(b): (not enough strong ties back home) and 212(a)(9)(c)(i): (He had come in the US illegally after 1997 and stayed for more than a year and came in more than once illegally). 

My question is this: In 2003 he left he US for the last time (voluntarily) and in 2014 he applied for a tourist visa AND  was granted a temporary one (for one year). He was told something about applying for a waiver at that interview. Either way, that same year, he came and visited the United States LEGALLY and was granted 2 weeks and returned without overstaying his visa. When the year was up, he went to renew his tourist visa (hoping it would be granted for the regular 10 years) but instead he was told he had a life ban based on 214(b) and 212(a)(9)(c)(i). He went to apply again this year and was just told the same thing. Is there anything he can do? Why would he be given a temporary visa and allowed to visit the US as a tourist when he was barred for life? It doesn't make sense to me that they would have allowed him in back in 2014 but not now. Would it have something to do with the waiver they had told him about? He has no idea what waiver they referred to back in 2014 and, either way, he was granted entry after that appointment anyway.  Would the waiver be form I-212? 

 

More information: 

His wife and daughters have the 10 year tourist visas. In fact, all of his brothers and sisters have tourist visas or some form of legal status. He also takes a lot of evidence to show where he works and what his degrees are. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Legumes
More information.

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

45 minutes ago, Legumes said:

Hi everyone! Thank you all for your responses. I think you guys are right and it has nothing to do with them not believing he was an English teacher. 

So, I asked him for more information and here is the update:

He was barred under 214(b): (not enough strong ties back home) and 212(a)(9)(c)(i): (He had come in the US illegally after 1997 and stayed for more than a year and came in more than once illegally). 

My question is this: In 2003 he left he US for the last time (voluntarily) and in 2014 he applied for a tourist visa AND  was granted a temporary one (for one year). He was told something about applying for a waiver at that interview. Either way, that same year, he came and visited the United States LEGALLY and was granted 2 weeks and returned without overstaying his visa. When the year was up, he went to renew his tourist visa (hoping it would be granted for the regular 10 years) but instead he was told he had a life ban based on 214(b) and 212(a)(9)(c)(i). He went to apply again this year and was just told the same thing. Is there anything he can do? Why would he be given a temporary visa and allowed to visit the US as a tourist when he was barred for life? It doesn't make sense to me that they would have allowed him in back in 2014 but not now. Would it have something to do with the waiver they had told him about? He has no idea what waiver they referred to back in 2014 and, either way, he was granted entry after that appointment anyway.  Would the waiver be form I-212? 

 

More information: 

His wife and daughters have the 10 year tourist visas. In fact, all of his brothers and sisters have tourist visas or some form of legal status. He also takes a lot of evidence to show where he works and what his degrees are. 

Erm yes a little different than a CO not believing he is an English teacher, no?

212(a)(9)(c)(i) is a permanent bar for (essentially) a repeat offender.  No idea why he was given the temp visa in 2014.  He should have followed up on the waiver back then, suggest he do it now. Irrelevant what visas the rest of his family have.

 

was he fully truthful on his 2014 application? And this recent one ? iow did he detail all his overstays and illegal entries?

Edited May 26, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

It seems like he has a lifetime bar for misrepresentation because he didn't  disclose ALL the illegal entries on the DS-160 form when he got the visa in 2014. Had he disclosed all the illegal entries, the visa wouldn't have been granted without a waiver, or granted at all. 

[Just Observing 34]

He should forget it. He’s not coming back to the USA, and particularly not on a nonimmigrant visa. Give up the dream, it’s essentially game over.

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

Now, it sounds like he had multiple instances of misrepresentation..........He can possibly apply for a waiver in 10 years......but I think that ship has sailed.....He abused the good grace of US immigration....and he is paying the stiff price.....