Beware bad information on AOS deadline for K1 (fresh out of jail)

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

If authorized stay doesn’t indicate in legal status, I don’t know what does.  

 

 

Authorized stay does not indicate "in legal status"

 

 

From https://www.truvisa.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-lawful-status-period-of-authorized-stay-and-unlawful-presence/72"

USCIS Period of Authorized Stay by Attorney General

This comes into picture if your visa or i94 has expired. If you have already filed for a valid extension of your visa or i94 extension before any of them expired, and the decision is still pending with USCIS, you are considered ‘out-of-status’ but in ‘period of authorized stay’.

This period of authorized stay continues until the USCIS issues a decision on the pending case. If the application or petition is approved with an extension or change of status, the period of ‘out-of-status’ (from the date your visa expired to the date of USCIS decision is automatically converted to ‘Lawful status’)."

Edited May 10, 2019 by missileman

[Scandi 4,173]

These are two different things though.

 

What people mean when they say that the AOS doesn't have a deadline, is that for the immigration process itself (USCIS that is) there is no deadline. Literally no deadline. You can file months or even years after your K-1 entry and USCIS doesn't have anything to say about it. 

 

Being in the country without status in regards to the feds/police is a different thing. This isn't USCIS. 

 

So yes, both are correct. There is NO deadline to file for AOS, but you will still be out of status and risk deportation after your 90 days are up. 

[fip & jim 452]

1 hour ago, SLV123 said:

My question was in anticipation of my daughter’s fiancé’s arrival. 

 

To get the NOA1 on time and to be safe, forms should be mailed before the 80 day mark, so you have the NOA1 hopefully by the 91st day..

 

To best protect oneself, if stopped by a law enforcement officer, it seems like the reason the NOA1 from the AOS filing should be sufficient to prevent arrest, while waiting for approval on I-485 and after I-94 expiration, is that case status can be checked on the website.

 

Is that what they do?

 

Lots of options mentioned in this thread: (SSN, the ClearID), or is just the NOA1 sufficient along with passport, to prevent this terrible scenario, during the months of waiting for approval?

 

Unlawful presence for K1 is from the day they are out of status (I-94 expires) to becoming an adjustment of status applicant.

 

It took 12 days for me to receive NOA after filing for AOS. Even filing on the 80th day after arrival would be cutting it fine in my opinion. In my case there would have been a 2 day period of overstay if I'd filed on day 80. 

 

It is best to file ASAP to receive I-797C receipt notice as proof of filing. Personally, I keep all these documents in a fireproof safe, make copies, and note down all the reference numbers elsewhere. This is all accessible for me and husband, including a file we can access from our phones.

 

You are advised to never carry your Social Security Number card on you. 

 

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

1 minute ago, fip & jim said:

It is best to file ASAP to receive I-797C receipt notice as proof of filing.

Exactly.....As I said earlier, there are no benefits in delaying.......

[SLV123 40]

How about this - he could write the NOA1# in a sharpie on his forearm and paint over it with liquid bandage so it’s always available if needed😀. Like if swimming and there’s a reason ID’s are being checked.

[fip & jim 452]

Just now, SLV123 said:

How about this - he could write the NOA1# in a sharpie on his forearm and paint over it with liquid bandage so it’s always available if needed😀. Like if swimming and there’s a reason ID’s are being checked.

Like your Green Card must be carried at ALL TIMES. In the shower? In the back yard? What about if I walk to my mailbox and leave it in the house for 30 seconds? 🙄

[JunkTardis 183]

17 minutes ago, fip & jim said:

Unlawful presence for K1 is from the day they are out of status (I-94 expires) to becoming an adjustment of status applicant.

 

It took 12 days for me to receive NOA after filing for AOS. Even filing on the 80th day after arrival would be cutting it fine in my opinion. In my case there would have been a 2 day period of overstay if I'd filed on day 80. 

 

It is best to file ASAP to receive I-797C receipt notice as proof of filing. Personally, I keep all these documents in a fireproof safe, make copies, and note down all the reference numbers elsewhere. This is all accessible for me and husband, including a file we can access from our phones.

 

You are advised to never carry your Social Security Number card on you. 

 

Yup, we too have a fireproof safe we each have a key to that contains anything important like that including marriage license. I also scan EVERY document so I have a digital copy, and print them too to have a paper backup. It may be excessive, but it means I won't get into hot water for not having anything. 

[geowrian 22,337]

I'm sorry to hear about the rough situation you have been through.

You got extremely unlucky to be pulled over, have papers checked, and then put in jail so soon after becoming out of status. That said, that is always the risk when somebody is out of status. Some people have been in the US without status for 20+ years without any issues, and others are less than a couple weeks and go through the experience you did.

 

For reference, had the I-485 actually been filed prior this but no NOA1 received yet, it would likely have still resulted in the initial detention. However, getting it cleared up afterwards presumably would have been faster/simpler.

 

As for USCIS not mentioning that you have to actually file for AOS within 90 days to avoid being out of status, that's not something one really needs to be told IMHO. One should know that if they overstay their visa that they are subject to deportation.

I think the confusion most K-1 holders have is they think that marrying within 90 days suddenly changes things. They "fulfilled the purpose of their visa". Both of those are incorrect. Marriage grants no immigration status automatically.

 

The screenshot in the OP only describes eligibility criteria for AOS. People often read more into it than what is actually there. It says nothing about one's legal status in the US, so assuming it impacts legal status in any way is incorrect. People tend to see what they want to see, even if it's not there. Then myths start for others that didn't do their own reading.

[Mike E 11,741]

55 minutes ago, missileman said:

Authorized stay does not indicate "in legal status"

 

 

From https://www.truvisa.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-lawful-status-period-of-authorized-stay-and-unlawful-presence/72"

USCIS Period of Authorized Stay by Attorney General

This comes into picture if your visa or i94 has expired. If you have already filed for a valid extension of your visa or i94 extension before any of them expired, and the decision is still pending with USCIS, you are considered ‘out-of-status’ but in ‘period of authorized stay’.

This period of authorized stay continues until the USCIS issues a decision on the pending case. If the application or petition is approved with an extension or change of status, the period of ‘out-of-status’ (from the date your visa expired to the date of USCIS decision is automatically converted to ‘Lawful status’)."

Out of status. In status.  Lawful status. Legal status. Unlawful status. Illegal status.  Authorized stay.  Unauthorized stay. 

 

Etc. It’s a wall of text that most people don’t understand and people become numb to it.  Equivocations and Mumbo Jumbo just lead  to tragedies such as that reported by OP.  

 

A question to my wife’s lawyer before we filed “Can we file late?”  Ans: “ICE might not come a week after the deadline but they come.  “. It doesn’t get any clearer. We filed on time. 

 

It’s pretty simple.  Get an NOA1 before 90 days up: always a legal alien.  Get it after 90 days up: illegal alien.  Breaking INS up into a bunch of agencies doesn’t change reality. And few things are more real that being in jail as OP suffered.  

Edited May 10, 2019 by Mike E

[Boiler 45,733]

Relying on Facebook for legal guidance is a bit odd.

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

24 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Out of status. In status.  Lawful status. Legal status. Unlawful status. Illegal status.  Authorized stay.  Unauthorized stay. 

 

Etc. It’s a wall of text that most people don’t understand and people become numb to it.  Equivocations and Mumbo Jumbo just lead  to tragedies such as that reported by OP.  

 

A question to my wife’s lawyer before we filed “Can we file late?”  Ans: “ICE might not come a week after the deadline but they come.  “. It doesn’t get any clearer. We filed on time. 

 

It’s pretty simple.  Get an NOA1 before 90 days up: always a legal alien.  Get it after 90 days up: illegal alien.  Breaking INS up into a bunch of agencies doesn’t change reality. And few things are more real that being in jail as OP suffered.  

My point was that terminology is important........You said "It would be a good idea to keep a paper copy of the NOA1 too.  This proves one is in status.  "     My point was that "authorized stay" does not equate to legal status.....

 

Filing the I-485 does not grant legal status.....whether filed before or after expiration of the I-94......legal status would come after approval of the AOS.

 

[Mike E 11,741]

6 minutes ago, missileman said:

My point was that terminology is important........You said "It would be a good idea to keep a paper copy of the NOA1 too.  This proves one is in status.  "     My point was that "authorized stay" does not equate to legal status.....

 

Filing the I-485 does not grant legal status.....whether filed before or after expiration of the I-94......legal status would come after approval of the AOS.

 

And your point is utterly lost on me.  

 

With respect to presence in the USA, everyone here has a status: illegal or legal.

 

My wife’s status is not illegal.  Therefore her status is legal.

 

And contrary to your advice, we keep copies of our NOA1s.   

 

 

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

5 minutes ago, Mike E said:

And contrary to your advice, we keep copies of our NOA1s.  

I NEVER advised anyone that they should not keep a copy of the NAO1.  They should.  It helps to show "authorized stay"........I think you should use correct terminology when speaking about immigration.....THAT was the point.

Edited May 10, 2019 by missileman

[Boiler 45,733]

I like the phrase under the colour of law, aka limbo land.

[yuna628 9,687]

12 hours ago, little immigrant said:

Is it actually legal for a "foreign" government to take away your government issued id's and passport? It doesn't sound right. 

Why wouldn't it be legal? Try getting stopped in the UK and see what they do with your stuff.

12 hours ago, SLV123 said:

NOA1 for AOS taking 10 days on average. So my daughter’s fiancé should carry what during that 10 day period? Is the SSN sufficient,  or should I tell him not to leave the house?  Being facetious but this is ridiculous!

 

Additionally I have read the I-485 instructions  and nowhere does it say inthe section clearly labeled “WHEN TO FILE” that it must be filed within 90 days,; the only clear direction is for the K-1 to marry within that time frame. The zeal to arrest is astonishing.

An SSN doesn't prove legal status, nor does it prove 'authorized status'. It is generally unwise for anyone, including USCs to carry around SSNs. It's a valuable document that is critical to not lose or be stolen. Most people commit the number to their memory. Not leave the house? Suppose that's a possibility. The problem really is, that many do not understand that entry on the K1 is for 90 days. After that, you are 'unauthorized'. You haven't 'entered illegally', but you certainly no longer have legal presence. Filing for AOS gives you 'authorized stay' while the petition is handled. In some states I'd assume the risk of being hauled off to jail is lower. Certainly not in a border town I'd guess.

 

The proper way to go about this is: apply for SSN sooner rather than later (this will assist the spouse to obtain services such as insurance or banking without harassment even if it is not expressly required).

marry within 90 days to honor the requirement. (during that period carry passport + I94) ensure to get the certified copy of marriage certificate as quickly as possible.

file for AOS immediately with EAD/AP. (carry passport + NOA1 for AOS)

with an NOA1 + passport + I-94 some DMVs will allow driving license temporarily, however a lot of them will not allow an immigrant to have a license until presenting an EAD. That's what my spouse did. A 1yr license is issued on presentation of an EAD in this state and then is upgraded to a full license upon presenting a GC. There are situations where an NOA1 or even an EAD can take longer to arrive than desired, the foreign citizen should be cautious until they do.

 

There are of course plenty of people who roll the dice and don't file AOS promptly. I've seen numerous 'reasons' and excuses. I assume most immigrants make it through without harassment, but there is real and significant risk to their future by not doing so. In the OP's case it's unfortunate. It's my opinion that the USC bears responsibility in maintaining the safety and well being of their foreign spouse while in the US, and part of that is ensuring their status is safe from harassment, and their healthcare and freedom to travel is taken care of.

 

3 hours ago, SLV123 said:

My question was in anticipation of my daughter’s fiancé’s arrival. 

 

To get the NOA1 on time and to be safe, forms should be mailed before the 80 day mark, so you have the NOA1 hopefully by the 91st day..

 

To best protect oneself, if stopped by a law enforcement officer, it seems like the reason the NOA1 from the AOS filing should be sufficient to prevent arrest, while waiting for approval on I-485 and after I-94 expiration, is that case status can be checked on the website.

 

Is that what they do?

 

Lots of options mentioned in this thread: (SSN, the ClearID), or is just the NOA1 sufficient along with passport, to prevent this terrible scenario, during the months of waiting for approval?

 

It is my personal opinion, even if you do everything right, such as file an AOS before the 90 days are up - if stopped by an officer and presenting the correct documentation, it is up to that officer to determine the meaning of those documents. There is still theoretically the chance an officer could attempt to misunderstand the meaning of the documents and still move to arrest - but in this case, the immigrant is the one following the law, and is in a lot better place legally to argue an illegal detention or error in judgment before the court. Statistically it's likely low anything happens to the average immigrant following the law, so it shouldn't be meant as something to fear. That does not mean in the OP's case, they got unlucky. The truth is, without documents proving authorized status, they are right to jail them and this administration is surely going to crack down on that.

 

To be safest: mail the AOS application as soon as possible. Why wait until the 80th day? Give yourself a bigger gap.