Is it considered fraud ?

[Nody 165]

Hello everybody, 

I have a question that worries me so much and hope to get help from you!

First of all I'm waiting for my CR-1 interview email.

My story is we applied for the fiancé visa in 2017 after we got engaged in Dec.2016 in my interview everything was good, the CO was very nice. At the end of the interview he asked me to get my medical exam done "cause I didn't have enough time before the interview and they told me it's ok I can send it later" and to send my medical exam and my passport to the embassy!

My husband and I decided to have a religious ceremony in Egypt so his family in Turkey and my family can attend it "religious ceremony isn't a legal marriage in Egypt" and we didn't have any papers signed or anything. That was a month after my interview.. and after one month of the religious ceremony our case was sent back to the USCIS! We did our best to know the reason and finally my husband went to an info pass and the USCIS officer looked at her computer and asked my husband a question that the CO asked me in my interview "how long did you know your fiance before you got engaged ?" The answer was 2 months the USCIS officer told him that the CO didn't believe our relationship is real!! We waited for the termination letter then he came back and we got married legally in Feb.2018.

Now my question is "if the CO in my interview asks me about our religious ceremony that it was before they made a decision about the K1 visa and after my k1 interview will he think it's fraud ? We really didn't know it's considered marriage cause it's not a legal marriage in Egypt and also my husband called the USCIS and they told him religious ceremony doesn't count a legal marriage! 

Of course if the CO asks me about that I will tell the truth and only truth but will he consider it fraud ?!

Sorry for this long post and any advice will be appreciated.

[payxibka 10,045]

1 minute ago, Nody said:

Hello everybody, 

I have a question that worries me so much and hope to get help from you!

First of all I'm waiting for my CR-1 interview email.

My story is we applied for the fiancé visa in 2017 after we got engaged in Dec.2016 in my interview everything was good, the CO was very nice. At the end of the interview he asked me to get my medical exam done "cause I didn't have enough time before the interview and they told me it's ok I can send it later" and to send my medical exam and my passport to the embassy!

My husband and I decided to have a religious ceremony in Egypt so his family in Turkey and my family can attend it "religious ceremony isn't a legal marriage in Egypt" and we didn't have any papers signed or anything. That was a month after my interview.. and after one month of the religious ceremony our case was sent back to the USCIS! We did our best to know the reason and finally my husband went to an info pass and the USCIS officer looked at her computer and asked my husband a question that the CO asked me in my interview "how long did you know your fiance before you got engaged ?" The answer was 2 months the USCIS officer told him that the CO didn't believe our relationship is real!! We waited for the termination letter then he came back and we got married legally in Feb.2018.

Now my question is "if the CO in my interview asks me about our religious ceremony that it was before they made a decision about the K1 visa and after my k1 interview will he think it's fraud ? We really didn't know it's considered marriage cause it's not a legal marriage in Egypt and also my husband called the USCIS and they told him religious ceremony doesn't count a legal marriage! 

Of course if the CO asks me about that I will tell the truth and only truth but will he consider it fraud ?!

Sorry for this long post and any advice will be appreciated.

No Visa issued,  no fraud occurred 

[Nody 165]

3 minutes ago, payxibka said:

No Visa issued,  no fraud occurred 

Do you mean fraud just occurs if the visa issued ? 

What about my situation ? Do I have to worry about it ?

[payxibka 10,045]

1 minute ago, Nody said:

Do you mean fraud just occurs if the visa issued ? 

What about my situation ? Do I have to worry about it ?

Did you misrepresent yourself (lie) in your application or interview? 

 

If you were totally honest then there is nothing to worry about 

[Nody 165]

3 minutes ago, payxibka said:

Did you misrepresent yourself (lie) in your application or interview? 

 

If you were totally honest then there is nothing to worry about 

No I didn't lie about anything. All the questions were easy to me to answer. The only question he made a comment about was the same question that the USCIS asked my husband about "how long we knew each other before engagement" my answer was 2 months then he said "don't you think it was a short time to get to know each other" I answered that for 2 months we have been talking together more than normal couples who live in the same country do! 

 

[payxibka 10,045]

1 minute ago, Nody said:

No I didn't lie about anything. All the questions were easy to me to answer. The only question he made a comment about was the same question that the USCIS asked my husband about "how long we knew each other before engagement" my answer was 2 months then he said "don't you think it was a short time to get to know each other" I answered that for 2 months we have been talking together more than normal couples who live in the same country do! 

 

This is not anything to worry about then

[Nody 165]

Just now, payxibka said:

This is not anything to worry about then

Thank you so much

[ujones 148]

6 minutes ago, Nody said:

Thank you so much

If your legal marriage was after visa denial why would the religious ceremony should even be brought up during interview ? It has no validity in your country right ? 

Edited April 27, 2019 by ujones

[Nody 165]

2 minutes ago, ujones said:

If your legal marriage was after visa denial why would the religious ceremony should even be brought up during interview ? It has no validity in your country right ? 

I thought about that cause the pictures of the 2 families were in the religious ceremony so he may be asks when we had the religious ceremony and it was one month after my interview and before they make any decision. 

On the US embassy website in Egypt it's written that the only marriage that counts legal in Egypt is the civil marriage!

We also didn't have any papers signed or any kind of certificates for the religious marriage. Just the 2 families and my friends!

[geowrian 22,337]

For a K-1 visa, you must show that you are free to marry. Having a religious ceremony may be sufficient cause to not meet this bar as the burden is on you to show that you are eligible.

For a CR-1 visa, you must show that you are married. Again, the burden is on you.

It's possible to not be able to show that you are free to marry yet also not actually be legally married, in which case you don;t qualify for either visa (until you resolve that issue, such as by legally marrying).

 

As for the specifics about fraud, I don't see any issue here. The burden is on them to show that fraud or a misrepresentation occurred, that it was willful, and that it was material. None of that appears to apply here. I wouldn't be worried about a misrep bar for these circumstances.

Edited April 27, 2019 by geowrian

[Nody 165]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

For a K-1 visa, you must show that you are free to marry. Having a religious ceremony may be sufficient cause to not meet this bar as the burden is on you to show that you are eligible.

For a CR-1 visa, you must show that you are married. Again, the burden is on you.

It's possible to not be able to show that you are free to marry yet also not actually be legally married, in which case you don;t qualify for either visa (until you resolve that issue, such as by legally marrying).

 

As for the specifics about fraud, I don't see any issue here. The burden is on them to show that fraud or a misrepresentation occurred, that it was willful, and that it was material. None of that appears to apply here. I wouldn't be worried about a misrep bar for these circumstances.

Even if the CO knew we had a religious ceremony before they made a decision on my k1 visa but after the interview ?

Cause I'm going to show these pictures in my interview as they are the only pictures for the 2 families together..

And the legal marriage happened in the court after we got the termination letter from thee USCIS .

I have a lot of other evidences and another visit of my mother in law to spend a week with my family and me in Egypt.

[geowrian 22,337]

22 minutes ago, Nody said:

Even if the CO knew we had a religious ceremony before they made a decision on my k1 visa but after the interview ?

Cause I'm going to show these pictures in my interview as they are the only pictures for the 2 families together..

And the legal marriage happened in the court after we got the termination letter from thee USCIS .

I have a lot of other evidences and another visit of my mother in law to spend a week with my family and me in Egypt.

A non-legal wedding ceremony may or may not be cause for a refusal, depending on if the IO is satisfied that you have demonstrated you are both free to marry. It is not cause for a  misrepresentation finding, whether it happened before or after the interview.

 

Had it been a legally recognized marriage, then claiming to be free to marry (as required to obtain or use a K-1) could be misrepresentation.

 

Even then, the misrep would be either on the DS-160 or in the interview. If somebody legally marries after the interview, it would still not be a misrepresentation unless you tried to use the visa still.

Edited April 27, 2019 by geowrian

[Nody 165]

4 minutes ago, geowrian said:

A non-legal wedding ceremony may or may not be cause for a refusal, depending on if the IO is satisfied that you have demonstrated you are both free to marry. It is not cause for a  misrepresentation finding, whether it happened before or after the interview.

 

Had it been a legally recognized marriage, then claiming to be free to marry (as required to obtain or use a K-1) could be misrepresentation .

Then no worries God willing..

Thank you for your help

[Cathi 5,755]

Did you sign a nika nama(marriage contract) at the religious ceremony? If so, that's legally binding for marriage purposes and immigration in Muslim countries. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Cathi

[Nody 165]

7 minutes ago, Cathi said:

Did you sign a nika nama(marriage contract) at the religious ceremony? If so, that's legally binding for marriage purposes and immigration in Muslim countries. 

We didn't sign any papers. So no papers were registered at all.. we don't have any marriage certificates but the legal marriage..