Rights You Won't Have Under S.1348

[doodlebug 3]

Boring, boring boring.

From Boston, eh? Another Kennedy worshiper?

Not everyone from Boston is a Kennedy worshiper

[peejay 327]

Boring, boring boring.

From Boston, eh? Another Kennedy worshiper?

Not everyone from Boston is a Kennedy worshiper

Not everybody from Texas loves Bush either.

I still lean to the Republicans though. I was a Reagan Democrat that hasn't returned. I didn't leave the Democrats...they left me.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You state:

Amnesty will be given to employers who knowingly hired illegals and even provided them with fraudulant or stolen SocialSecurity numbers.

and the White House states:

FACT: Before the Z visa and temporary worker programs go into effect, an Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) must be in place and ready to prevent unauthorized workers from obtaining jobs in the United States.

FACT: Employers will be required to verify the work eligibility of all employees using the EEVS, and all workers will be required to present stronger and more readily verifiable identification documents. Tough new anti-fraud measures will be implemented to restrict fraud and identity theft.

FACT: Employers who hire illegal workers will face stiff new criminal and civil penalties. For example, the maximum criminal penalty for a pattern or practice of hiring illegals will increase 25-fold, from $3,000 per alien to $75,000 per alien

One has nothing to do with the other. If I understand correctly, one condition for any of the illegals to receive a Z visa is that said illegal needs to be employed. As in, employed prior to obtaining the visa. As in illegally employed. Being in violation of the law is actually made a condition to be eligible for the visa. Obviously, neither the employer nor the illegal will face any punishment for having broken the law up until the illegal obtained the Z visa. That is the very essence of an amnesty.

Who believes a first damn thing this White House says anymore anyways?

Edited May 29, 2007 by ET-US2004

[kitkat1 5]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

Illegals are crushing public health systems in the US today even though they are technically not entitled to a first damn thing. What would make anyone think that that will change for the better when they have a right to be and work here?

You don't think the White House will release blatant lies? Has it ever released anything but those?

[kitkat1 5]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

Illegals are crushing public health systems in the US today even though they are technically not entitled to a first damn thing. What would make anyone think that that will change for the better when they have a right to be and work here?

You don't think the White House will release blatant lies? Has it ever released anything but those?

I was really just asking about the source of the original post. My questions about the news release was actually serious and maybe a little naive. I am just trying to get a handle on all of the conflicting information out there and find it a little odd that one post says Z holders will get welfare, etc. while the other memo says 100% the opposite.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

Illegals are crushing public health systems in the US today even though they are technically not entitled to a first damn thing. What would make anyone think that that will change for the better when they have a right to be and work here?

You don't think the White House will release blatant lies? Has it ever released anything but those?

I was really just asking about the source of the original post. My questions about the news release was actually serious and maybe a little naive. I am just trying to get a handle on all of the conflicting information out there and find it a little odd that one post says Z holders will get welfare, etc. while the other memo says 100% the opposite.

Whether they'd be eligible for welfare is a detail I am not even interested in. We've already lost if that actually becomes important. But hypothetically speaking, what will a Z-visa holder do when he loses his job and can't find a new one? Go home?

[Portlander 0]

One has nothing to do with the other. If I understand correctly, one condition for any of the illegals to receive a Z visa is that said illegal needs to be employed. As in, employed prior to obtaining the visa. As in illegally employed. Being in violation of the law is actually made a condition to be eligible for the visa. Obviously, neither the employer nor the illegal will face any punishment for having broken the law up until the illegal obtained the Z visa. That is the very essence of an amnesty.

Who believes a first damn thing this White House says anymore anyways?

No ... I'm pretty sure the Z visa is handled exclusively by a prospective employer. The immigrant gets a legal job before getting the visa, and the visa is entirely in the hands of the employer. The employer can terminate the visa at any time for any reason. If the immigrant wants to get a new job, they need the permission of their current employer.

Workplace safety? Not likely!

This bill doesn't benefit migrants any more than it benefits anyone else, other than big bizness. I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky that Big Oil doesn't hire illegal labor. Bush would have simply passed a signing statement granting Amnesty already....

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

The bill itself is the source. I have it linked in the first post. I've done what most senators have failed to do - I've read it.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

The bill itself is the source. I have it linked in the first post. I've done what most senators have failed to do - I've read it.

You linked - and read - the wrong bill.

I'll say it again -- S.1348 is not the bill.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yup - I agree with that.

What about the claim that Z visa holders will be able to get welfare and other social services support while the White House link says exactly the opposite? It's hard to grasp that a White House news release could blatantly lie, which is why I asked about the source of the original post.

The bill itself is the source. I have it linked in the first post. I've done what most senators have failed to do - I've read it.

You linked - and read - the wrong bill.

I'll say it again -- S.1348 is not the bill.

It is the bill, mark, the same one taken on by heritage.org.

Aka Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007, this is the bill drafted by a handful of Senators and other malfeasents behind closed doors and in secret, touted as a "grand compromise" and then presented in a hurry to be voted on and passed in one week, although no Senator had read it. It is the one that day after day is discussed on "Lou Dobbs" and other political venues. It is the one that Bush is desparately waiting to sign as a token of his presidential humanitarian legacy. He wants it in force by the end of June. It is the one to beat.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/.../s1348sap-s.pdf

EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT

OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20503

May 23, 2007 (Senate) STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY

S. 1348 – Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 (Sen. Reid (D) Nevada and 4 cosponsors) The Administration strongly supports Senate passage of the bipartisan immigration reform proposal under consideration on the Senate floor. The proposal offers a much-needed solution for our Nation's broken immigration system. This proposal would deliver an immigration system that is secure, productive, orderly, and fair. The Administration applauds the members of the Senate who worked in the spirit of bipartisanship over the past months to address this critically important issue. The Nation's immigration system badly needs reform, and this proposal takes a comprehensive approach. The proposal would require specific improvements in border security and interior and worksite enforcement. For example, the proposal would establish a strong employer verification system, which is a critical element of a successful system. Once these important goals are met, a temporary-worker program would be created to allow workers to come to this country for a short period of time on a new Z visa and fill jobs Americans are not doing. The temporary-worker program would address the needs of the Nation's economy and take pressure off the border by providing a secure and legal channel for workers seeking employment in the United States. For future immigrants wishing to come to the United States permanently, the proposal would revamp our immigration system and establish a new merit-based process, which takes into account job skills, economic needs, education, and English proficiency. The U.S. immigration system's recognition of immediate family ties would continue; however, future family immigration would be limited to the nuclear family, spouses and minor children. Visas for parents of U.S. citizens would be capped, while visas for siblings and adult children would be eliminated. Extended family would still be able to apply for green cards under the new merit-based system and would receive points under that system recognizing their family ties to U.S. citizens or green card holders. The proposal would bring undocumented workers already in the United States out of the shadows without amnesty and without animosity. It would require workers to pay a meaningful penalty, pay their taxes, and pass a background check in order to obtain what would be known as a Z visa. If these workers decide they want to apply for a green card, they would have to pass an English test, return home to file an application, and get in line behind those who have played by the rules and followed the law. The United States has been a melting pot for over 200 years, giving much strength to the Nation. The proposal would further efforts to help immigrants assimilate into American society by directing the Department of Education to make English instruction freely available over the Internet. The proposal also affirms that English is the language of the United States. The Administration looks forward to a serious, civil, and conclusive debate that results in a comprehensive solution to our Nation’s immigration challenges. * * * * *

Edited May 29, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Shameless bump.

[mawilson 2,133]

It is the bill, mark, the same one taken on by heritage.org.

Aka Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007, this is the bill drafted by a handful of Senators and other malfeasents behind closed doors and in secret, touted as a "grand compromise" and then presented in a hurry to be voted on and passed in one week, although no Senator had read it. It is the one that day after day is discussed on "Lou Dobbs" and other political venues. It is the one that Bush is desparately waiting to sign as a token of his presidential humanitarian legacy. He wants it in force by the end of June. It is the one to beat.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/.../s1348sap-s.pdf

Hmm. I guess Thomas is still out of date - it shows S.1348 as "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007"

which is not the same thing (not even close.)

The Heritage link is correct, the Library of Congress one is wrong.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm glad we're on the same page

[kitkat1 5]

I still didn't see anything that addresses welfare - maybe I missed it. I'm not actually hung up at any one detail, just completely confused by the difference in the white house memo.