County can't find record of my divorce for packet 3

[pushbrk 12,893]

54 minutes ago, slc12312 said:

Yeah, I imagine that to be true. It's unfortunate that in my case, the court records are missing and it is impossible to get a decree. I'm just hoping there might be an alternative, as I'm just grasping for a life preserver on a sinking ship, lol. 

Continuing to ask won't change the answer.  Hire an attorney to deal with it for you.

[slc12312 11]

13 minutes ago, givionte said:

Sounds like you are here just to complain and find a loophole, and to not actually take serious action.  It's never impossible to get a decree or court record in the United States.  Hire a lawyer if you aren't getting anywhere with the state or city.

Maybe sounds like it to you, but that is not the case. Thanks for the constructive comment. If you read my comment above, you would read that I will be contacting a lawyer for help based on what advice the Consulate gives. But I still fail to see how I or a lawyer can get a decree if one does not exist and there is no record of it according to the issuing agency and records center. You can't get what isn't there, that is just fact, not a complaint. I will hire a lawyer to look into it though, that is the last step, maybe they can ferret out something. Have a good day. 

[pushbrk 12,893]

2 hours ago, slc12312 said:

Maybe sounds like it to you, but that is not the case. Thanks for the constructive comment. If you read my comment above, you would read that I will be contacting a lawyer for help based on what advice the Consulate gives. But I still fail to see how I or a lawyer can get a decree if one does not exist and there is no record of it according to the issuing agency and records center. You can't get what isn't there, that is just fact, not a complaint. I will hire a lawyer to look into it though, that is the last step, maybe they can ferret out something. Have a good day. 

You can't get something that doesn't exist.  However, you might find that since you know it ONCE existed, that a copy of it is stored in a place you haven't looked yet.

 

[slc12312 11]

2 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

You can't get something that doesn't exist.  However, you might find that since you know it ONCE existed, that a copy of it is stored in a place you haven't looked yet.

 

Yes, ultimately that is what I hope for. I haven't looked on this site yet as I'm new, but are there any recommended lawyers listed anywhere? Otherwise I'll look for someone when I'm in the states next week. Maybe a paralegal service. For this sort of thing, that would be a family lawyer, right, as opposed to an immigration lawyer? 

[pushbrk 12,893]

3 minutes ago, slc12312 said:

Yes, ultimately that is what I hope for. I haven't looked on this site yet as I'm new, but are there any recommended lawyers listed anywhere? Otherwise I'll look for someone when I'm in the states next week. Maybe a paralegal service. For this sort of thing, that would be a family lawyer, right, as opposed to an immigration lawyer? 

Get a family law attorney in LA County.

[slc12312 11]

2 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

Get a family law attorney in LA County.

Will do, thanks pushbrk. 

[Ontarkie 14,226]

 I know that when they won't write you a letter saying that your records no longer exists it is because they do and they are too lazy to look for them. Records that old need to be looked for by hand in huge books as the records themselves are  stored usually offsite.  Records are never destroy due to age. Fire/disaster what not yes and they would write a letter saying that. Since you did not go down to their office I'm betting they are only looking for the digital copy and are just telling you that they have nothing.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Ontarkie

[slc12312 11]

8 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

 I know that when they won't write you a letter saying that your records no longer exists it is because they do and they are too lazy to look for them. Records that old need to be looked for by hand in huge books as the records themselves are  stored usually offsite.  Records are never destroy due to age. Fire/disaster what not yes and they would write a letter saying that. Since you did not go down to their office I'm betting they are only looking for the digital copy and are just telling you that they have nothing.

I think you are absolutely right. I was told by a service that searched the records (a highly recommended one a lot of attorneys choose to use) that they actually looked for two days. The person at the Archives Center said it would be on microfilm or microfiche, one or the other, so that is probably what they looked for. Not sure they looked for the original. And still not sure what the case number was, provided there is one on record. I'll get to the bottom of it sooner or later, lol. Thanks for the input. I should ask for the original, and if they can't find it, request a certified letter stating it was destroyed by flooding or fire. My friend who works at the court did say many records were destroyed several years ago due to flooding. I'll hire a lawyer to get to the bottom of it. I'm in Thailand so for me, it is impossible to do myself. 

[SalishSea 17,834]

7 minutes ago, slc12312 said:

I think you are absolutely right. I was told by a service that searched the records (a highly recommended one a lot of attorneys choose to use) that they actually looked for two days. The person at the Archives Center said it would be on microfilm or microfiche, one or the other, so that is probably what they looked for. Not sure they looked for the original. And still not sure what the case number was, provided there is one on record. I'll get to the bottom of it sooner or later, lol. Thanks for the input. I should ask for the original, and if they can't find it, request a certified letter stating it was destroyed by flooding or fire. My friend who works at the court did say many records were destroyed several years ago due to flooding. I'll hire a lawyer to get to the bottom of it. I'm in Thailand so for me, it is impossible to do myself. 

Is it possible that the record was moved to a different physical jurisdiction?  We had a similar situation involving the search for a decree absolute in England.  It had been archived to a different court altogether.  Very frustrating process, and took months, but they did eventually track it down for us.

[slc12312 11]

2 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Is it possible that the record was moved to a different physical jurisdiction?  We had a similar situation involving the search for a decree absolute in England.  It had been archived to a different court altogether.  Very frustrating process, and took months, but they did eventually track it down for us.

To the best of my knowledge, as well as what someone who works there says all of the records for Los Angeles County are stored at the Archives Center, with most being kept in what they call the catacombs. Evidently the storage area is vast, and filed with records going back to the 1800's. Recently digitized ones that can be accessed by computer in other buildings though. Mine being from 1978 and being that old, evidently are kept in the basement somewhere. I'm sure it will be found eventually as in your case. If not, then I hope to get a certified letter from them saying it was destroyed and couldn't be found. Anyway, I'll get it one day. Thanks for the imput!

[Mollie09 1,543]

7 hours ago, slc12312 said:

To the best of my knowledge, as well as what someone who works there says all of the records for Los Angeles County are stored at the Archives Center, with most being kept in what they call the catacombs. Evidently the storage area is vast, and filed with records going back to the 1800's. Recently digitized ones that can be accessed by computer in other buildings though. Mine being from 1978 and being that old, evidently are kept in the basement somewhere. I'm sure it will be found eventually as in your case. If not, then I hope to get a certified letter from them saying it was destroyed and couldn't be found. Anyway, I'll get it one day. Thanks for the imput!

 

Honestly, this sounds like such a pain. I'm so sorry you're stuck in this limbo, especially not living in the US/CA to go there in person a bunch of times to try to figure this out.

 

I had a similar issue because I got married in one state, divorced in another, and married again in a different country that required a certificate of being free to marry. So I went to the my current state's vital records office to get something that said they had a record of my divorce (they had no record of my out-of-state marriage), and they... didn't. Nothing about me on the system at all. Nothing with my ex-husband's name, DOBs, nothing. I still have all the certificates (nisi, absolute, judgement) so I know it's real, but the guy couldn't find it in their system, so he gave me a piece of paper that said they had no records, which thankfully worked for getting married abroad, but scared the ####### out of me. The probate court still has the certificates though, and I asked for more copies.

[slc12312 11]

On 4/19/2019 at 8:25 PM, Mollie09 said:

 

Honestly, this sounds like such a pain. I'm so sorry you're stuck in this limbo, especially not living in the US/CA to go there in person a bunch of times to try to figure this out.

 

I had a similar issue because I got married in one state, divorced in another, and married again in a different country that required a certificate of being free to marry. So I went to the my current state's vital records office to get something that said they had a record of my divorce (they had no record of my out-of-state marriage), and they... didn't. Nothing about me on the system at all. Nothing with my ex-husband's name, DOBs, nothing. I still have all the certificates (nisi, absolute, judgement) so I know it's real, but the guy couldn't find it in their system, so he gave me a piece of paper that said they had no records, which thankfully worked for getting married abroad, but scared the ####### out of me. The probate court still has the certificates though, and I asked for more copies.

Well, it is an interesting pain to say the least, and one I could do without, haha. I'm sure something will come up eventually, right now, I'm waiting for a response from the Vital Records Department to see if they have record of a case file. If they do, then I can proceed with that information in hand as it would be a great starting point. I plan on getting the 1978 divorce decree anyway, whether or not I need it. For the April '19 version of the Packet 3 instructions it states:

  TERMINATION OF PREVIOUS MARRIAGES: If either the petitioner or applicant were previously married, they must provide proof of legal termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment).

I'm a stickler when it comes to wording, so I am in doubt, once more, as to whether or not I need that divorce decree from 1978 since it is not the "previous marriage". I read that section and take it literally. TERMINATION OF PREVIOUS MARRIAGES - that would be for the both of us and why marriages is stated as a plural. It doesn't say ALL previous marriages, just the last one (the previous one).  If this in case is what they are saying, then I'm good as I do I have all records for my last 25 year marriage. 

Whereas for Marriage Certificates is says:
  MARRIAGE CERTIFICATES: Both the petitioner and applicant must present legal marriage certificates for all prior and current marriages. ----- Fortunately, I have both marriage certificates for all prior marriages,  1976 and 1984. 

Regardless of the Packet 3 wording, I am still pursuing the '78 marriage decree, it can't hurt me to have it, and if I do need it, I'll have it. I've hired a service to find it, or at least a case number. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by slc12312