US/UK Dual Citizenship

[yuna628 9,676]

The bottom line is what country the person is from will determine the dual nature of their status. And since the poster's spouse is from the UK it's not a problem for them, despite any misconceptions to the contrary. The only true penalization in my eyes, is the restriction of UK voting beyond 15 years (but this would be the same rules if he lived somewhere in the EU or even if they just maintained LPR status in the US). Passport renewal is simple, though not straightforward, but shouldn't be an issue. As a person that loves and researches genealogy, you won't believe how many times I come across ''my parent or grandparent lost their UK citizenship when they Naturalized in the US''... it's simply not true. That honestly is one of the reasons why my grandma never thought she was eligible for dual citizenship, when she was. Today in the US, there are tons of US/UK citizens, despite confusing newspaper reports to the contrary. Take Anthony Hopkins, for instance, who is a Naturalized US citizen. Papers reported that he revoked his UK citizenship, something that certainly isn't true. He is one of numerous dual citizen actors/actresses in this country. Or take Meghan Markle, now Duchess of Sussex, that is also a US citizen but is now married to the Prince and in line to the British crown. Technically, her offspring will be dual citizens too, though there would be an issue of renouncing titles that might complicate things. To be sure, there have been some very rich persons who have found the dual taxation issue too fussy for them, and have untaken an actual legal revocation. And there is the recent case of the UK revoking a young UK bride of a terrorist, rendering her sort of stateless. You usually have to be a bad person to get the UK government to formally revoke a citizenship, and there remains some legal question if they can actually do it.

Edited April 9, 2019 by yuna628

[Lemon23 400]

5 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

The bottom line is what country the person is from will determine the dual nature of their status. And since the poster's spouse is from the UK it's not a problem for them, despite any misconceptions to the contrary. The only true penalization in my eyes, is the restriction of UK voting beyond 15 years (but this would be the same rules if he lived somewhere in the EU or even if they just maintained LPR status in the US). Passport renewal is simple, though not straightforward, but shouldn't be an issue. As a person that loves and researches genealogy, you won't believe how many times I come across ''my parent or grandparent lost their UK citizenship when they Naturalized in the US''... it's simply not true. That honestly is one of the reasons why my grandma never thought she was eligible for dual citizenship, when she was. Today in the US, there are tons of US/UK citizens, despite confusing newspaper reports to the contrary. Take Anthony Hopkins, for instance, who is a Naturalized US citizen. Papers reported that he revoked his UK citizenship, something that certainly isn't true. He is one of numerous dual citizen actors/actresses in this country. Or take Meghan Markle, now Duchess of Sussex, that is also a US citizen but is now married to the Prince and in line to the British crown. Technically, her offspring will be dual citizens too, though there would be an issue of renouncing titles that might complicate things. To be sure, there have been some very rich persons who have found the dual taxation issue too fussy for them, and have untaken an actual legal revocation. And there is the recent case of the UK revoking a young UK bride of a terrorist, rendering her sort of stateless. You usually have to be a bad person to get the UK government to formally revoke a citizenship, and there remains some legal question if they can actually do it.

This is actually a good advise, unlike some people here will quoted and tell you how terrible you are by giving advises, instead of focusing of giving good advise to members. LOL! 

[TBoneTX 45,273]

Administrative action has been applied against a member who wantonly posted incorrect/reckless advice, defended the indefensible, and derided other members by clicking "haha" icons on posts with correct information.

 

OP, heed every other poster in this thread except for the obvious one.

 

TBoneTX

VJ Moderation

[CharlieTanger 76]

3 hours ago, USS_Voyager said:

Every country is different. From the US perspective, the US does NOT care if their citizens carry another citizenship. In the US Government's eyes, the person will be treated as a US citizen upon naturalization and will have all the rights, privileges and responsibilities thereto appertaining. 

 

Some countries share the same view of the US, they don't care either, if their citizens obtain another citizenship else where. My "old" country, Vietnam, for example, is one of those. The fact that I became a US citizen is immaterial to them, couldn't care less. To the Vietnamese Government, I am a Vietnamese citizen and still have all the rights, privileges and responsibilities of a Vietnamese citizen.

 

Some other countries specifically prohibit their citizens to have another citizenship and obtaining another citizenship will result in an automatic loss of their home country's citizenship. For example: Japan, China (exception for Hong Kong and Macau), India, Nepal... One Nepali member reported if he gets caught entering or leaving Nepal with a foreign passport, he may be put in jail for several days... 

 

Some countries allow dual citizenship, but restrict the rights of dual citizens:

-in Egypt dual citizens cannot be elected to Parliament;

-in Israel, members of Parliament must renounce any other citizenship before taking their seat in the Knesset;

-in New Zealand, dual citizens may be elected to Parliament, but MPs once elected may not voluntarily become a citizen of another country, or take any act to have their foreign nationality recognised such as applying for a foreign passport. 

-In the Philippines, dual citizens may not run for any local elective office.

 

And the list goes on  and on and on....

 

So, in short, it is complicated. Know the laws of both countries is key. 

 

Very informative as well! Thank you!!

[CharlieTanger 76]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

Administrative action has been applied against a member who wantonly posted incorrect/reckless advice, defended the indefensible, and derided other members by clicking "haha" icons on posts with correct information.

 

OP, heed every other poster in this thread except for the obvious one.

 

TBoneTX

VJ Moderation

 

Thanks, TBone! Appreciate it!  I tired to just skip the nonsense. 

[Wuozopo 4,293]

5 hours ago, CharlieTanger said:

Hi all! 

 

Totally new new to the Citizenship portion of our immigration journey! My spouse just received the 10-year GC and is about to begin the Citizenship application. 

 

My question is, is my spouse able to retain UK citizenship when talking citizenship oath to the US? If so, is there another route we have to take when applying for Citizenship? Do we have to inform the UK? Does anyone have to know on the application that my spouse wants dual citizenship? How does this all work? 

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated!   

 

I am both a UK and US citizen. There is nothing special to do. Go through the journey of applying for naturalization, have an interview (with test), attend your oath ceremony and receive your naturalization certificate that day. Then you can register to vote and apply for a US passport. I also made trips to the DMV and Social Security office to update my status with them. I did not have to update anything with the UK government.

 

I have since entered the UK as both British and American (when my UK passport had expired). I am eligible to receive my full UK state pension and private pensions when I reach the appropriate age. Of note, if you collect a UK State pension, any Social Security retirement benefits will be reduced by what you collect in state pension. Basically they are both government pensions and won't let you double dip the full amount from each. If your wife is young, she will more likely have bigger Social Security earnings anyway and may not have reached the years required paying in to state pension. I'm the opposite and have the full 30 years in state pension and only a few years paid into Social Security, but enough to collect and get on Medicare. When the time comes I will have to work it all out and see which is the better deal and how it all plays out with the SSA. 

[nastra30 2,284]

Op, UK allows dual citizenship, Period.

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship

"Dual citizenship (also known as dual nationality) is allowed in the UK. This means you can be a British citizen and also a citizen of other countries.

You do not need to apply for dual citizenship. You can apply for foreign citizenship and keep your British citizenship"

 

The US on the other hand has no law recognizing or prohibiting dual citizenship.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

"U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship."

 

 

--->

The citizenship oath is technically called 'Naturalization Oath of Allegiance':

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

 

As a matter of debate, do people really lose their citizenship by reciting the oath of allegiance? It appears to be the renunciation of allegiance to a foreign country and not the renunciation of citizenship to a foreign country.

 

PS: Just playing devil's advocate😉.

[mushroomspore 3,044]

1 hour ago, nastra30 said:

Op, UK allows dual citizenship, Period.

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship

"Dual citizenship (also known as dual nationality) is allowed in the UK. This means you can be a British citizen and also a citizen of other countries.

You do not need to apply for dual citizenship. You can apply for foreign citizenship and keep your British citizenship"

 

The US on the other hand has no law recognizing or prohibiting dual citizenship.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

"U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship."

 

 

--->

The citizenship oath is technically called 'Naturalization Oath of Allegiance':

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

 

As a matter of debate, do people really lose their citizenship by reciting the oath of allegiance? It appears to be the renunciation of allegiance to a foreign country and not the renunciation of citizenship to a foreign country.

 

PS: Just playing devil's advocate😉.

Your last point is correct. The oath SOUNDS like you're renouncing citizenship but it's actually about allegiance. I think a lot of people get confused though by the oath's language. Considering the US originated with British colonizers, it'd be weird if they did not allow dual citizenship with each other. 

[SalishSea 17,824]

11 hours ago, Lemon23 said:

I don't research if I'm not  belong for that country, its a waste of time. I only do research what is applicable to me. So this line is irrelevant to me LOL!

Then why answer a Q which you have no actual answers for?

[SalishSea 17,824]

My kids are dual citizens with both passports.  They were born in the US, and got British citizenship through their dad, who is himself a dual citizen.  The US doesn't care, and nor does the UK.  The UK passports have come in handy whilst traveling within Britain and the EU (pre-Brexit), and they always use their US ones while returning.  It has been great for them to not have to "choose."

[Going through 5,671]

@CharlieTanger Just wanted to mention (in case you didn't know) that as a dual citizen, you will be required to exit and enter the US using your US passport.  Naturally, you can enter the UK as a UK citizen or as a US citizen.

 

@aaron2020 if there ever is a vote for a forum Moderator....you've got mine.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Going through

[JunkTardis 183]

22 hours ago, CharlieTanger said:

Hi all! 

 

Totally new new to the Citizenship portion of our immigration journey! My spouse just received the 10-year GC and is about to begin the Citizenship application. 

 

My question is, is my spouse able to retain UK citizenship when talking citizenship oath to the US? If so, is there another route we have to take when applying for Citizenship? Do we have to inform the UK? Does anyone have to know on the application that my spouse wants dual citizenship? How does this all work? 

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated!   

I too am from the UK.

No one will take their UK citizenship away, if you were born British or are a citizen then you will always retain it. The UK will never ask you to denounce it, and even swearing allegiance to the US won't take it away either. I'd recommend the basics though such as keep passport up to date and not throwing out any old legal documents from the UK, you never know when you might need to prove your identity again to the UK for something. Your spouse would be able to move back to the UK at any point if they ever so choose, and if you guys decided to move there together you could quite easily by comparison to moving to the US. 

[Derwood 203]

On 4/9/2019 at 11:06 AM, yuna628 said:

... The only true penalization in my eyes, is the restriction of UK voting beyond 15 years (but this would be the same rules if he lived somewhere in the EU or even if they just maintained LPR status in the US). ...

 

Did you know that there's a bill going through the UK parliament right now to abolish the 15 year limit? 🙂 https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/overseaselectors.html It's currently in adjournment but hopefully it will continue its legislative journey soon.

 

One of the other great benefits of being a working expat is the ability to pay the very cheap Class 2 National Insurance contributions to maintain your UK National Insurance record and state pension thereby. I love how cheaply I'm maintaining my NI record.

 

Anyway, my Oath of Allegiance is tomorrow. Wish me luck guys. I'll be a dual citizen tomorrow!

[VisaV 7]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 8:56 PM, Derwood said:

 

Did you know that there's a bill going through the UK parliament right now to abolish the 15 year limit? 🙂 https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/overseaselectors.html It's currently in adjournment but hopefully it will continue its legislative journey soon.

 

One of the other great benefits of being a working expat is the ability to pay the very cheap Class 2 National Insurance contributions to maintain your UK National Insurance record and state pension thereby. I love how cheaply I'm maintaining my NI record. 

 

Anyway, my Oath of Allegiance is tomorrow. Wish me luck guys. I'll be a dual citizen tomorrow!

would love some info on this?

[Wuozopo 4,293]

On 4/10/2019 at 7:56 PM, Derwood said:

One of the other great benefits of being a working expat is the ability to pay the very cheap Class 2 National Insurance contributions to maintain your UK National Insurance record and state pension thereby. I love how cheaply I'm maintaining my NI record.

Have you also looked into the fact that whatever you collect in UK State Pension will reduce your Social Security retirement by that amount? So you're paying in to get a UK pension that reduces a US pension you are also paying into. Hopefully you've crunched the numbers and worked it out as a win.