How to file ROC I-751 when already living overseas? Step by step

[dunebuggy 18]

Hi VJers! I tried to do some research to figure out how to apply for the I-751 while already overseas. Hopefully this helps someone in a similar situation. 

 

Some context of our situation - One USC and One LPR (Spain national)

• Conditional GC issued Aug 11, 2017
  • Conditional GC expires Aug 11, 2019
• I-131 filed March 2018 and I-327 Travel Document / Reentry Permit (REP) issued Jun 29, 2018
  • I-327 expires Aug 11, 2019 (aligning with Conditional GC expiration)
  • REP was mostly a precaution, we don't plan on remaining outside US for more than 1 year at a time

• We are currently living abroad on a temporary job assignment (1-2 more years) and have been outside the US since July 2, 2018. 
• We plan to return to our permanent US residence in late June 2019 (prior to 1 year absence)

 

Here is what I believe are next steps for ROC I-751. Can the kind forum experts please advise if this is accurate? Thank you!

1. ROC can be filed from May 13, 2019 (T-90 days from GC expiration Aug 11, 2019)
   • USA-based parents will mail the physical I-751 application from our US address
   • Include US address to avoid “overseas hold”
     • To avoid the "overseas hold", an applicant should be sure to list a U.S. address. It may be also be important for the I-751 to explain the reason the LPR is overseas, demonstrate that LPR status has not been abandoned, state that the LPR will attend the scheduled biometrics interview and appointment, and request that the case not be subject to the overseas hold.
2. Return to US to do biometrics (if required), hopefully around 3 months after May ROC filing
3. I-797C notice (to extend residency while ROC is pending) sent to US address
   • When physical I-797C received, my US parents send to us abroad 
4. Need to enter US again before July 2020 (to avoid 1 year absence and risk abandoning GC)

[Russ&Caro 1,549]

First, anyone attempting to file the I-751 from overseas is incurring risk of not being successful so these steps might be good for trying to minimize that risk but shouldn't be portrayed as any type of guide to removing conditions.

 

If you're using your parents address as your mailing address, it could look to the CO that you're not maintaining residence in the US which could result in rejection. Even with a re-entry permit I believe you still have to maintain a residence in the US or you will have been deemed to have abandoned your green card.

 

Biometrics approintments are often just 2 to 3 weeks after filing the application, not 3 months, and I hadn't heard of situations where it's not required. Sounds more like an exception than a rule.

 

Your 4th step says you have to return to the US in a year in order to avoid risk abandoning GC. This whole scheme, from steps 1 to 4, involves risking the abandonment of GC, not just step 4.

 

Basically it's the CO's decision. Even if you have a re-entry permit, if your stays outside of the US are determined too long, you'll be denied.

 

By the way, you're going to have a difficult time collecting evidence showing that you reside with your spouse in the USA, if you live abroad for one or more years. Such evidence is crucial to having your application accepted. Is it possible that it could be achieved following the above steps? Sure. Are you running some significant risk that it might be denied? Double sure.

 

I wish the OP success.

 

EDIT: One more thing... having your parents send you the I-797 via international mail is also risky. You have to use the original copy of the I-797 to travel with. So if you're in a country where international mail is safe and relatively speedy, then good for you. If not, this is a risk you should also consider.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Russ&Caro

[Going through 5,671]

1 hour ago, dunebuggy said:

We plan to return to our permanent US residence in late June 2019 (prior to 1 year absence)

 

1 hour ago, dunebuggy said:

Conditional GC expires Aug 11, 2019

 

I guess I don't understand why you want to make it more complicated/run the risk of denial?

Why not just wait until you are back in the US to file the ROC, since you are returning before the expiration date anyhow?

Edited April 5, 2019 by Going through

[mushroomspore 3,044]

You are taking a HUGE risk by trying to file RoC from abroad.

 

The extension letter is taking a very long time to get to a lot of RoC applicants these days. What if there's an emergency and you need to return to the US before you receive the extension letter? The GC will be expired by then. I don't believe a re-entry permit will be helpful in that case.

 

As an immigrant, it is a very bad idea to leave the US without having a way to get back in.

[Going through 5,671]

My suggestion would be to come back before GC expires (which you said you were anyhow), file the ROC from inside the US, file the travel permit from inside the US (which while that is pending you would complete your ROC biometrics by this time)....then you can make your travel plans abroad.

 

Honestly, you're risking playing with fire the way you've laid it out.  Russ & Caro also provided some good insight on how it may be adjudicated/looked at by IO.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Going through

[Hypnos 6,576]

17 minutes ago, Going through said:

file the travel permit from inside the US

OP wouldn't be able to file for a second re-entry permit until their RoC was approved. 

[Crazy Cat 41,844]

2 hours ago, dunebuggy said:

Conditional GC expires Aug 11, 2019

 

2 hours ago, dunebuggy said:

We plan to return to our permanent US residence in late June 2019 (prior to 1 year absence)

Seems like you are going to a great deal of trouble, risk, and expense, when you could just wait until you return to the US in June 2019 to file the I-751.

[dunebuggy 18]

Thank you VJers for your thoughtful feedback! Please see additional context and questions below as we work through this:

 

18 hours ago, Russ&Caro said:

If you're using your parents address as your mailing address, it could look to the CO that you're not maintaining residence in the US which could result in rejection. Even with a re-entry permit I believe you still have to maintain a residence in the US or you will have been deemed to have abandoned your green card.

 

Biometrics approintments are often just 2 to 3 weeks after filing the application, not 3 months, and I hadn't heard of situations where it's not required. Sounds more like an exception than a rule.

@Russ&Caro This is also the address on our drivers licenses / bank accounts / federal tax returns. Yes my parents live there, but it's a big house we intend to live there when we move back to the US. Is that really a problem? I'm the USC and have never owned real estate in my life (only rented)

 

Regarding timing of biometrics appts, timing is crucial for us to avoid a separate biometrics trip as we will have ~3 weeks in US this summer

 

17 hours ago, Going through said:

My suggestion would be to come back before GC expires (which you said you were anyhow), file the ROC from inside the US, file the travel permit from inside the US (which while that is pending you would complete your ROC biometrics by this time)....then you can make your travel plans abroad.

 

16 hours ago, missileman said:

 

Seems like you are going to a great deal of trouble, risk, and expense, when you could just wait until you return to the US in June 2019 to file the I-751.

@missileman@Going through Perhaps I should have been more clear, we will only have ~3 weeks in the US before returning abroad, so want to schedule the biometrics during this window to avoid a separate trip. So maybe we should only file a month before we arrive in US if biometric appt assignment is quick? We will return again in 2020 before a year is up again 

 

 

17 hours ago, mushroomspore said:

You are taking a HUGE risk by trying to file RoC from abroad.

 

The extension letter is taking a very long time to get to a lot of RoC applicants these days. What if there's an emergency and you need to return to the US before you receive the extension letter? The GC will be expired by then. I don't believe a re-entry permit will be helpful in that case.

 

As an immigrant, it is a very bad idea to leave the US without having a way to get back in.

@mushroomspore As I understand it, there is indeed the risk you mentioned of needing to return to the US, but alas we have to deal with this. I have read that it is legal to apply for ROC from abroad.... You must, however, travel to the US to comply with biometrics and an interview, if you have it. This is spelled out in the Code of Federal Regulations 216.4:

"(4) Physical presence at time of filing. A petition may be filed regardless of whether the alien is physically present in the United States. However, if the alien is outside the United States at the time of filing, he or she must return to the United States, with his or her spouse and dependent children, to comply with the interview requirements contained in the Act.

 

18 hours ago, Russ&Caro said:

EDIT: One more thing... having your parents send you the I-797 via international mail is also risky. You have to use the original copy of the I-797 to travel with. So if you're in a country where international mail is safe and relatively speedy, then good for you. If not, this is a risk you should also consider.

@Russ&Caro good point!

 

Looking forward to continuing the discussion and if anyone has additional insights 

[dunebuggy 18]

I am writing my I-751 cover letter and trying to figure out how to describe that we are only temporarily abroad, in order to avoid abandonment and the overseas hold. Any thoughts on the paragraph below? Thanks!

 

"Our family is temporarily in overseas while the *USC* serves a temporary, finite job opportunity, after which we intend to return permanently to our Oregon address. *Conditional Resident Spouse* will attend the scheduled biometrics interview and appointment(s), and we request that this case not be subject to the overseas hold."

[Ash.1101 1,756]

Well I mean they will probably know you're over seas anyways when they ask for a lease/housing situation for the last two years of your marriage and one year shows another country.  Are you paying bills and utilities at your parents house? I'd assume that you would show your bills and utilities to where you're at over seas to show you are living together, but I mean... if you're trying to say "don't worry we still live in the US" and half your proof shows you're out of it, and that you plan on leaving again for another year... Ehhh.. It's a big risk.

 

On 4/5/2019 at 2:51 PM, Hypnos said:

OP wouldn't be able to file for a second re-entry permit until their RoC was approved. 

This is correct I believe.




Also I was always under the impression that to maintain residency that you have to spend MOST of a year within the US, not visit the US once a year to go "hey I'm here don't worry!". Any ideas @geowrian ?

Edited April 19, 2019 by Ash.1101

[dunebuggy 18]

We do have a reentry permit that expires along with the Conditional GC in August and this is a temporary position overseas, hopefully that shows intent that we still want to live permanently in the US. 

 

This is far from guaranteed and there are risks.... but just trying to figure out how to make the most of the situation we're in!

[Going through 5,671]

4 hours ago, dunebuggy said:

Any thoughts on the paragraph below? Thanks!

 

"Our family is temporarily in overseas while the *USC* serves a temporary, finite job opportunity, after which we intend to return permanently to our Oregon address. *Conditional Resident Spouse* will attend the scheduled biometrics interview and appointment(s), and we request that this case not be subject to the overseas hold."

While the letter may or may not do any good---might serve better if an actual end date/date of return was mentioned/estimated to the best of your ability.  Leaving it open to interpretation is never a good idea.  Temporary can be anywhere from a few weeks to a couple of years in some IO's minds.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Going through

[dunebuggy 18]

48 minutes ago, Going through said:

While the letter may or may not do any good---might serve better if an actual end date/date of return was mentioned/estimated to the best of your ability.  Leaving it open to interpretation is never a good idea.  Temporary can be anywhere from a few weeks to a couple of years in some IO's minds.

Good tip! Thank you 

[dunebuggy 18]

OK here is an update, so far so good believe it or not. 18 month extension received and biometrics appointment not required b/c using previous biometrics!

• May 25, 2019: [Day 0] Sent I-751 package to Phoenix via USPS Priority
• May 31, 2019: [Day 6] NOA1 dated (18 mo extension) & check cashed
• June 04, 2019: [Day 10] Fingerprint Review Was Completed As of June 04, 2019, we completed our review of your fingerprints and are working on your Form I-751, Petition to Remove Conditions on Residence, Receipt Number MSCXXXXXX at our location. We will let you know if we make a decision or need anything from you.
• June 09, 2019: [Day 15] NOA2 received in mail, service center "NBC", text reading "This notice informs you that USCIS is able to reuse your previously captured fingerprints and other biometrics. USCIS will run the same security checks and use your biometric data as in the past, however, it is not necessary for you to appear at a USCIS Application Support Center (ASC) for biometrics appointment."

Question: we are currently abroad, do we need to have the physical NOA1 and NOA2 docs before traveling back to USA in late June? Thank you!

 

 

On 4/5/2019 at 10:03 PM, dunebuggy said:

Hi VJers! I tried to do some research to figure out how to apply for the I-751 while already overseas. Hopefully this helps someone in a similar situation. 

 

Some context of our situation - One USC and One LPR (Spain national)

• Conditional GC issued Aug 11, 2017
  • Conditional GC expires Aug 11, 2019
• I-131 filed March 2018 and I-327 Travel Document / Reentry Permit (REP) issued Jun 29, 2018
  • I-327 expires Aug 11, 2019 (aligning with Conditional GC expiration)
  • REP was mostly a precaution, we don't plan on remaining outside US for more than 1 year at a time

• We are currently living abroad on a temporary job assignment (1-2 more years) and have been outside the US since July 2, 2018. 
• We plan to return to our permanent US residence in late June 2019 (prior to 1 year absence)

 

Here is what I believe are next steps for ROC I-751. Can the kind forum experts please advise if this is accurate? Thank you!

1. ROC can be filed from May 13, 2019 (T-90 days from GC expiration Aug 11, 2019)
   • USA-based parents will mail the physical I-751 application from our US address
   • Include US address to avoid “overseas hold”
     • To avoid the "overseas hold", an applicant should be sure to list a U.S. address. It may be also be important for the I-751 to explain the reason the LPR is overseas, demonstrate that LPR status has not been abandoned, state that the LPR will attend the scheduled biometrics interview and appointment, and request that the case not be subject to the overseas hold.
2. Return to US to do biometrics (if required), hopefully around 3 months after May ROC filing
3. I-797C notice (to extend residency while ROC is pending) sent to US address
   • When physical I-797C received, my US parents send to us abroad 
4. Need to enter US again before July 2020 (to avoid 1 year absence and risk abandoning GC)

 

[mindthegap 2,590]

8 hours ago, dunebuggy said:

Question: we are currently abroad, do we need to have the physical NOA1 and NOA2 docs before traveling back to USA in late June? Thank you!

Yes. Expired card, and the original (watermarked) receipt/extension letter.