Question middle names

[millefleur 5,047]

Just now, Prizm123 said:

ok thats good to know. I was already thinking this was what we had to do

 

was it hard to get the correct spelling upon arrival in the US for forms? 

The spelling has never been corrected...not sure how it is with the Ukraine government, but with the Russian government, there's no way to correct it other than via Court Order Name Change in the US (lengthy process that costs $$$ and involves a lot of red tape and paperwork) or via Naturalization when applying for US citizenship....or some other official foreign document (such as driver's license from another country, etc.) that shows a different spelling.

 

Also, on the US side, the GC and SSN will be dictated by what is written in the international passport. So unfortunately unless you can manage to get the double "ii" thing changed in the international passport, you're pretty much stuck with it for all official documents here in the US, too. That includes taxes, driver's license...everything that will be verified by the GC or passport.

 

We're waiting until Naturalization to get it corrected as this is the easiest and most straightforward way to get it done. After that, my husband will have to re-apply for a Russian passport and get everything changed on the Russian side to the new spelling. This is how Russia requires it to be done, Ukraine might be different (re: easier). Hopefully anyone with experience on the Ukraine side can shed light on this.

[Shiran 1,134]

3 hours ago, Prizm123 said:

was it hard to get the correct spelling upon arrival in the US for forms?

When we tried to change spelling while applying for SSN (The very first document we tried on US soil) we were subverted immediately, and told it has to go by what on Visa (not even on passport, though Visa matches passport in this case) Marriage, at least in CA also only allows change of last name (there are several possibilities there,  either of the people getting married can change the last or middle name, or take partner's name as middle name even, dashes etc) but very explicitly first name may not be changed. 

[millefleur 5,047]

8 minutes ago, Shiran said:

When we tried to change spelling while applying for SSN (The very first document we tried on US soil) we were subverted immediately, and told it has to go by what on Visa (not even on passport, though Visa matches passport in this case) Marriage, at least in CA also only allows change of last name (there are several possibilities there,  either of the people getting married can change the last or middle name, or take partner's name as middle name even, dashes etc) but very explicitly first name may not be changed. 

Thank you for the input...exactly, there is no way to get it changed on the US side except via Court Order or at Naturalization.

 

In terms of getting it changed on the Ukraine side, is the same as in Russia (i.e. they refuse to change it unless you can produce other official ID showing a different spelling in English) or different?

[Shiran 1,134]

2 minutes ago, millefleur said:

In terms of getting it changed on the Ukraine side, is the same as in Russia (i.e. they refuse to change it unless you can produce other official ID showing a different spelling in English) or different?

We haven't tried as we were dealing with other issues, and saw it as a minor annoyance. Besides, for various reasons she prefers Olha to Olga anyway, Оля (Olya) would've been ideal, but we also discovered Americans have an issue pronouncing that. @HP+ICmight be able to better explain he legality of first name changes on the Ukrainian side.

 

I am just happy that I have my iy for ий and don't have to worry about ii insanity that I was not even aware is a thing now. 

[millefleur 5,047]

2 minutes ago, Shiran said:

I am just happy that I have my iy for ий and don't have to worry about ii insanity that I was not even aware is a thing now. 

Yes, be thankful...my husband has a relatively rare (old fashioned) name even by Russian standards that has zero equivalent in English, so his name just baffles everyone even if it were spelled with "-y" or "-iy" at the end, the "-ii" thing just makes it even worse. He's just used to everyone butchering his name at this point and constantly mispronouncing it. Our last name has the dreaded "ы" vowel in it as well, so the last name is also constantly mispronounced...lol. "ы" is transliterated as "y" so I guess that kind of makes sense, but there just isn't an English equivalent for that sound so nobody here can pronounce it correctly anyway.

 

We just laugh about it now, nothing else we can do for now...hopefully eventually getting the "ii" converted to "y" will help though.

[TBoneTX 45,649]

At naturalization, change his name to "John Smith."

[millefleur 5,047]

2 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

At naturalization, change his name to "John Smith." 

LOL, then they would really think he is a Russian spy!

 

(heavy Russian accent) "Heeelo, my name iz Dzhohn Smeezsfff" ("th" sound unpronounceable to most Russians)

Edited April 3, 2019 by millefleur

[HP+IC 292]

4 hours ago, Prizm123 said:

what did you guys put for the plane ticket?

 

Tali's passport is like that too, Наталия is how it is spelled in cyrillic, but her passport lists it as Nataliia, she is kind of concerned about it, but thats how it came i guess for the same reason

 

she actually goes by Natalie, but her daughter calls her Natasha 😄

 

all of the forms we have filled out also we listed her patronymic name, but i am not sure that is really a big deal, we did it in the interest of trying to be as truthful as possible

You've certainly overdone it. Patronymic is something Ukraine doesn't take outside, so for all foreign matters it should be neglected. Stick to what her foreign passport says, you will not make a mistake. Internal passport is not to be shown at the interview (though I had it with me and my expired foreign one too to justify Anna-Ganna-Hanna transition, but they never asked), so whatever is in it doesn't matter for emigration purposes. It is my understanding that for DS-160 you must neglect patronymic and if you mentioned it on I-129F you can mention it on 'other names used' just for the peace of mind and forget it. 

[HP+IC 292]

50 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Thank you for the input...exactly, there is no way to get it changed on the US side except via Court Order or at Naturalization.

 

In terms of getting it changed on the Ukraine side, is the same as in Russia (i.e. they refuse to change it unless you can produce other official ID showing a different spelling in English) or different?

Yep, pretty much the same. Either you go by what the official spelling prescribes or you can opt for a previous spelling you ever had. But, this is not name change, it is spelling change. This is important in terms of documentary proof. I never considered spelling changes a change of my name, never mentioned it as 'other names used', never had a 'proof of change' and it has proven correct both for Ukrainian side and the Embassy. When you order your police certificate they specifically request you to put your Ukrainian/Russian versions AND all changes (adoption, marriage, through court). The Embassy has adopted the same approach, different spellings are the same name used. 

[millefleur 5,047]

11 minutes ago, HP+IC said:

You've certainly overdone it. Patronymic is something Ukraine doesn't take outside, so for all foreign matters it should be neglected. Stick to what her foreign passport says, you will not make a mistake. Internal passport is not to be shown at the interview (though I had it with me and my expired foreign one too to justify Anna-Ganna-Hanna transition, but they never asked), so whatever is in it doesn't matter for emigration purposes. It is my understanding that for DS-160 you must neglect patronymic and if you mentioned it on I-129F you can mention it on 'other names used' just for the peace of mind and forget it. 

My husband has been using the patronymic name as his middle name here and we've had no issues (my husband loves his patronymic name because he loves and deeply respects his father, wants to keep it as part of his full name for that reason). We even had to do an I-90 to correct an error on the GC and we had to send in a translated copy of his Russian BC showing that it was part of his birth name...no issues at all, they accepted it without question.

 

So, if one wants to use it, USCIS doesn't have any issues with that and the patronymic can certainly be used as a "middle" name...however, USCIS also seem to have no issues if someone wants to forget it/leave it out and just be "first name (no middle name) last name." So it's just an indiviudal choice at the end of the day as far as USCIS is concerned....plus the Russian government could care less, my husband has showed his GC (with patronymic under "middle name") and had zero issues there either. Not sure how the Ukrainian authorities approach the issue.

 

But right, adding the patronymic merely to show that one is being "truthful" was not necessary. It's more just a matter of preference as far as USCIS is concerned.

[millefleur 5,047]

9 minutes ago, HP+IC said:

But, this is not name change, it is spelling change.

Right, unfortunately the US authorities make it a bit harder. The only way to get a first name (or any other spelling issues in the passport) corrected here is an official name change via judicial process, hence we're just going to wait it out until Naturalization.

 

12 minutes ago, HP+IC said:

When you order your police certificate they specifically request you to put your Ukrainian/Russian versions AND all changes (adoption, marriage, through court). The Embassy has adopted the same approach, different spellings are the same name used.  

That's interesting. In Russia there's just the "Russian" way and no other option, at least as far as I know. Now I'm curious how Ukrainian spelled names are handled in Russia, lol.