Regarding Child Maintanence Abroad

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't have any answers for you MrsD, but I wish you well in getting this resolved. My D has children that we're both VERY close to, and he pays a ridiculous amt of maintennance. I don't begrudge it at all...it was part of the reason that made me fall for him because he said to me 'these are my children, why would I want to shortchange them?' The extortionate maint was actually his idea, and it's part of why he's him. Now obviously, it hits a little closer to home when I'm trying to figure out how it's going to affect us when he moves and the exchange rate is so bad.

What we've decided to do is to leave at least a year's maintennance with his ex.

I know that doesn't help you, but I wanted to give some options for those who haven't made the move yet & who are in this same situation.

As far as your situation, I do believe there's a technicality as far as the maint being a % of his salary, although you should prolly try to strike a deal with the ex that you will make somewhat of a restitution for the months before a compromise was made. Maybe a repayment plan? There's no use getting lawyers involved if they need paying too...maybe try to appeal to the ex's rational side (however hidden it may be).

Good luck and congrats on the baby.

Edited May 27, 2007 by LisaD

[selly 0]

Mrs D I can associate and sympathise with your situation. I too have two children that I am currently paying a set amount of Child Maintenance for and I am happy to do so as it reflects the mandated 20% of my net income. When I move to the US I too will reduce the payments I make as they are directly linked to net income. What would the situation be in the UK if he had lost his job and could only get a job that paid half his previous income?............. it would be accepted that the payments would have to reduce, just because he is in a different country nothing changes. This does smell of his ex-partner being angry that he has found happiness again and is an attempt to spoil that happiness. I have a couple of pearls of thought given to me by my lawyer on the issue of child maintenance:

1. Your husband is unlikely to hear too much from the lawyer in the UK as it is a very costly and complicated process and as he has agreed to make some payment it is unlikely to get to the point where they chase him through the US legal system.

2. If your husband pays an amount mandated in a court order, the order only signifies an agreement between the two of them at a given point in time. If due to changes in personal circumstances you need to adjust that amount and can substantiate the change ie pay slip proves that the amount paid is more than the mandated percentage for the number of children, you can change it. The parent with the children has to then appeal to prove you are in contempt of the order and will also be responsible for all associated court costs, if applicable. If the proposed amount still falls within the mandated guidlines ie 15% for 1 child, 20% for 2, 25% for 3 or more, it is very unlikely that the case will get very far. Your husband will only be responsible for showing the court why he has changed the amount being paid ie by providing copies of his pay slips.

With regard to back payments, as long as your husband can substantiate the amount he has been paying and did not cease his payments he will not be required to pay any more. Lawyers tend to write these very threatening letters to try and intimidate people with the threat of court action, most of it is pure hot air.

If your husband has acted based on truths and as appears to be the case, shown a willingness to provide for his children, there should be nothing to worry about.

Bottom line do not be intimidated by her lawyer, if he is acting in good faith with a willingness to cooperate, just let them run up the bill. They will come back with a settlement agreement before they chase you in the US.

I hope it works out for you and fingers crossed hope I do not have to go down the same road in days to come.

Finally to those willing to post unhelpfull and ill informed comments, save your scorn for another website, this site is about helping one another not criticising or ridiculing.

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't think that anyone here said anything particularly to inflame someone, just giving their opinion.

Like if you put yourself in the mother's shoes...is it really her problem that he moved abroad? Why should that change her circumstances? It's probably hard on the children too, not seeing their father, and then on top of it, the mother may need to 'tighten the belt' around her household because he moved away & now can't currently meet the maintennance agreement. Not because he lost his job, but because he moved away to start a new life.

It's a difficult situation all around, that's for sure. I'd reccommend both parties coming to an arrangement without the aid of lawyers...both father and mother want what's best for their kids, so they should hopefully be able to put their personal feelings aside and focus on the children. Yes, wayyyyyy easier said than done, but all the parties in my situation (for the most part) have been able to do so. It involves a lot of ignoring things said...nasty, inflammatory things & not rising to the occasion, but letting tempers flare without retaliation or hurt feelings.

Maybe it's the 'petitioner guilt' in me, but afaic, the emigrating parent really should do his/her utmost to keep things as normal as they are....I can't imagine how hard it would be to be in the ex's shoes...watching your children's father leave your kids behind to start a new exciting life complete with new wife, baby, etc...and then say there's not enough to go around, so too bad, so sad.

Again, I'm not judging anyone here...as D and I have to face this issue, I'm just giving my perspective on it.

[selly 0]

I think you make some very sensible observations Lisa, none more than the recommendation that cooperation and dialouge are key to sorting the whole issue out. If the lawyers get involved, the only people to win will be the lawyers. I think you are right to focus on the fact that the only important factor in the whole episode is the welfare of the children. It is an unfortunate fact of life that families do split and this sort of thing does happen. As long as the estranged parent continues to provide what they can for their children and that provision is consistant with what is deemed fair, then they should be free to get on with their life as they see fit. If that means living in another country, remarrying and having more children then so be it. Their history should not be a millstone around their neck preventing them from their own future happiness. I for one will never ignore or totally abandon my children, granted I will not see them with the regularity that I have previously enjoyed. But I feel I will now be in a better position to provide them with more options in their life as they grow, ie education and employment, should they wish it. I refuse to be held to emotional ransom and nor should any other parent in a similar position. Providing the children are given the love and support that they should receive and prepared correctly for the separation, they will not be too adversly affected any more than the divorce proceedings did in the first place.

[Fandango 1,439]

I think you make some very sensible observations Lisa, none more than the recommendation that cooperation and dialouge are key to sorting the whole issue out. If the lawyers get involved, the only people to win will be the lawyers. I think you are right to focus on the fact that the only important factor in the whole episode is the welfare of the children. It is an unfortunate fact of life that families do split and this sort of thing does happen. As long as the estranged parent continues to provide what they can for their children and that provision is consistant with what is deemed fair, then they should be free to get on with their life as they see fit. If that means living in another country, remarrying and having more children then so be it. Their history should not be a millstone around their neck preventing them from their own future happiness. I for one will never ignore or totally abandon my children, granted I will not see them with the regularity that I have previously enjoyed. But I feel I will now be in a better position to provide them with more options in their life as they grow, ie education and employment, should they wish it. I refuse to be held to emotional ransom and nor should any other parent in a similar position. Providing the children are given the love and support that they should receive and prepared correctly for the separation, they will not be too adversly affected any more than the divorce proceedings did in the first place.

I do see what you're saying & I actually agree with it. D & I feel that the oppty's that the kids will have here are ones that they wouldn't have normally had. And his ex is being really great about it too...we're going to have the kids here with us every other Christmas, and they'll come here for summers. In fact, the kids are excited about it.

But the simple fact is, they are an obligation. Not in the negative sense, but an obligation to provide for them. The landlord/bank doesn't care where the rent/mtg comes from, as long as it's paid. There's no 'hey I just moved so you'll have to make due' for them. That's how I see the childrens' maintennance.

If D paid only his req'd 20%, we'd be laughing. No, sometimes it's not easy, but at the end of the day, they are his children. Sometimes I feel that it's too much, because the money he sends can't possibly go for them every month. But it is what it is. And if he somehow couldn't make ends meet here with the conversion rates, then he'd get a second job flipping burgers if he had to. Why? Cos they are his children. And I wouldn't feel right getting into the middle of a financial dispute between the parents even if we had kids together, cos what makes *my* kid(s) welfare somehow more important than his other children? It's not his childrens' fault that he moved, started a new life. In fact, I dare say the maintennance is most important now because it shows the mother/kids that just because he moved does not diminish his responsibility to them.

Stability during this time, to me, is most important. Which is why we're leaving a year's worth of maint behind. We figure the first year is going to be the hardest with him adjusting/getting settled...so that's out of the way at the very least.

Again, I'm just delving deeper into this discussion & not bashing the OP in any way.

[selly 0]

I think that the position you are taking is a very honourable one and one that should be respected by the Ex, if not then greed is clearly an issue. Luckily my move was on the cards while the financial agreement was being thrashed out and I managed to get an agreement with my Ex to take the salary differece in to consideration. If my circumstances however improved to the point where I could pay more than I was in the UK, I would as I want to be fair to the children. I hope the situation resolves itself quickly and with the minimum of stress for all concerned.

[tmma 467]

Hi,

I hope someone has some information regarding this or can give me some advice! Thanks in advance.

My husband and I live in the US-he is from England. He has a son and an ex-wife in England. This ex-wife is absolutely relentless. My husband was paying a certain amount in child maintanence while living in the UK. He is unable to pay that amount over here, because he makes less, cost of living is less, and the dollar is less than the pound. Well, ex-wife and my husband had finally agreed on a fair amount of child support after going back and forth through her lawyer. Ex-wife will not deal with my husband regarding child maintenance-she prefers to do everything through her lawyer.

Now ex-wife wants the difference in the amount from what he was paying before and what he is paying now from the last 14 months. Her lawyer had sent my husband an e-mail regarding this, and they said they would take legal action against my husband, and that they can regardless of us living in the US. My husband responded to her e-mail immediately and said that at the moment he is unable to pay back. He also offered to send copies of his bank statements to prove that he is in serious debt. He is significantly into his overdraft in his UK account. We do not own anything of importance over here-cars are paid off and no house payments. I'm currently on maternity leave with our new baby, so I don't have income right now either. Well, he hasn't heard from the lawyer in over a month which leads me to believe that they are over in the UK "hatching a plan" to go after us over here. Like I said, ex-wife and her lawyer (who is probably getting a lot of money out of this) are relentless.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm sure we wouldn't be required to pay back, because in their separation agreement it does state that if the earnings of my husband changed that would also change the amount of child maintanence. I feel really sick about this, because ex-wife is always after us about something. 4000 miles is NOT far enough away! I have a new baby that I'm looking after, and half the time I'm stressed out over this whole situation. I would like my husband to seek legal advice over here (even if it's just a one time meeting), but he thinks that would cost a fortune. He is currently at the beginning of getting his own business up and running, so finances are still tight.

Does anyone know what they can do to go after us over here? There is some sort of reciprocity between the US and the UK, but every website I look at is difficult to muddle through. Would we be required to attend court here? Would we have to pay for that? I can't imagine my husband would be required to travel to the UK for a court hearing.

She wants what we don't have. If you don't have the money-you can't pay it. I know it's as simple as that, and I'm sure the courts would see it that way (plus we have a child to support too). That being said, I'm still feeling ill over this situation.

Thank you.

A website that may be informative....

http://travel.state.gov/family/services/su...pport_2615.html

Going off that site it would appear that alot of US states have some sort of agreement with the UK as far as enforcing child support goes....

I am not commenting on the moral v legal aspects of this post; other than to say he is their father-his obligation is to support his children, it really is that simple to me. It's a shame that the adults in this matter cannot agree on something that would make sure his children are not left wanting and yet not bankrupt eachother in CS payments/legal battles/whatever because ultimatly it's the children that pay and in more ways than financially.....

[tmma 467]

http://www.dca.gov.uk/family/remo/faq.htm

Frequently asked questions (FAQs)

What is REMO?

Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders - or REMO - is the name used in the UK for international claims for family maintenance, the process by which a person may claim financial support from an ex-partner living in a different country. In the UK, REMO claims are handled by the courts.

The UK has arrangements with more than 100 countries and territories that allow a person living in one jurisdiction to claim maintenance from an ex-partner living in the other.

Which countries are covered?

More than 100 countries and territories worldwide. The full list is available.

How much does it cost?

International maintenance claims are usually free of charge.

How does someone in the UK make a claim against someone abroad?

If the applicant already has a court order for maintenance obtained when his/her ex-partner still lived in the UK, he/she should go to the court that made the order. The REMO process may attempt to enforce the existing court order in the other jurisdiction.

If the applicant doesn't already have a court order for maintenance (if he/she only has a CSA assessment, for example), he/she should contact their local magistrates' court or family proceedings court about applying for maintenance from the ex-partner living abroad.

Addresses and telephone numbers for the courts are listed in the phone book and on the Court Service website.

How does the process work?

The court will help in preparing the application papers. The court will then send the application to the relevant central authority. The central authority will then forward it to the country where the ex-partner now lives in order to begin the recovery of maintenance.

How much can someone apply for?

The court will look at the applicant's personal circumstances and may decide how much money is needed from their ex-partner. The ex-partner may contest this amount.

Does an applicant need a solicitor?

No. Applications can be made directly through the court, without using a solicitor.

How long does it take?

The court and the central authority will process your application as quickly as possible. Once your application is sent to the foreign authorities, however, it will be dealt with according to laws and procedures of that country. The UK has no control over how long that process will take, but we can help in periodically checking on the progress of your case with the foreign authorities.

There are no contact details available for the ex-partner. Can he/she be traced?

As much practical information as possible should be given in the application about where the ex-partner is living, although some countries are successful in using fairly limited details to trace people. A photograph of the person would also be useful.

Looks like the Ex wife can proceed with serving orders for payment [ and ultimatly force a court review in your juristictional court] if your state is part of the agreement with the UK ( other link in previous post).

[Chiroman 0]

Yikes- this thread is not very much fun, but things can be worked out if people can put aside the emotions and anger that go along with a divorce/seperation. You will only hurt the children when anger gets involved......Maybe they can try mediation? You can basically stamp out the whole agreement at a fraction of the cost of lawyers and then take a final draft to the lawyers to be processed.....good luck to both parents and kids involved, lets hope this has a happy ending.

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

So, instead of saying whatever you felt you need to say to me in public, you decided to slyly PM me calling me a b!tch??? LOL

All that does MrsDarby is show me exactly who you REALLY are...It's funny how the idea of your husband contributing to his kids bothers you. What is it that you want to hear??? That he doesn't owe them anything???

I pity you, and I feel sorry for your husband dealing with someone like you.

I hope his ex keeps fighting for what his FIRST child deserves. Figure out how to support YOUR child now you've gone ahead and saddled him with it.

[Donna A 4]

most woman are getting more support then they need anyway. my husband was paying 400 a month to his ex who lives in syria with her parents. does she give her parents rent....no. does she give her parents money for food....no. in fact her parents called his parents telling them he dont even pay child support...which was a huge lie their daughter told them. she got caught in that lie real quick when my husbands dad showed up with the child support reciets from the place he takes it to. for 6 years his ex's dad was paying to support my husbands daughter while the ex kept his support for herself. nice huh? anyway...400 a month is a regular wage for people there and far too much. thank god she decided to drop her income to 150 a month to get out of their marriege.

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

most woman are getting more support then they need anyway. my husband was paying 400 a month to his ex who lives in syria with her parents. does she give her parents rent....no. does she give her parents money for food....no. in fact her parents called his parents telling them he dont even pay child support...which was a huge lie their daughter told them. she got caught in that lie real quick when my husbands dad showed up with the child support reciets from the place he takes it to. for 6 years his ex's dad was paying to support my husbands daughter while the ex kept his support for herself. nice huh? anyway...400 a month is a regular wage for people there and far too much. thank god she decided to drop her income to 150 a month to get out of their marriege.

Fuuny how it's always the NEXT in line that decides that huh??