31% of American adults believe the Bible is Literal Word of God - Belief strongest among those without college degrees

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't mean to offend, but I think people who actually believe the story of Noah's Ark are kidding themselves. It didn't happen.

In your opinion. I happen to believe otherwise.

But do you believe that it happened exactly the way its described in the Bible - that unlike many sources from ancient world that the story wasn't exaggerated and embellished a little bit for the benefit of its readers?

[homesick_american 1]

You make atheists, agnostics and assorted non-religious people look like d1cks.

Now who is making broad, sweeping generalizations...me, or you? I don't really care what I look like to you because your opinion of me means less than nothing to me.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What...you think I have to respect the views of the religious in order to be civil to them? I don't respect their views; I think they're ridiculous and childish. I respect their right to HAVE those views, but that is all.

How does respect figure into laughing at someone's beliefs outright?

I didn't say that I did respect those views, so I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. Did you read my post? Just because I laugh at someone doesn't mean I don't think they have a right to their views. They do. And I have the right to laugh at those views.

If push comes to shove and views you consider ridiculous are on their way to becoming part of the law of our land, then yes - laugh, ridicule, humiliate... do the necessary to prevent that from happening. But in harmless conversation on a messageboard, why not lean towards civility?

Freedom of expression doesn't require us to always freely express ourselves.

I agree with this - given the tendency of these sorts of threads to descend into petty namecalling, there's no reason to not be civil and stop short of expressing outright disdain for people*...

*Preferably before this thread goes irredeemably tits up.

Edited May 29, 2007 by erekose

[Cassie 8]

I don't mean to offend, but I think people who actually believe the story of Noah's Ark are kidding themselves. It didn't happen.

In your opinion. I happen to believe otherwise.

But do you believe that it happened exactly the way its described in the Bible - that unlike many sources from ancient world that the story wasn't exaggerated and embellished a little bit for the benefit of its readers?

Yes I believe the way it is laid out in the Bible. I am not fluent in Hebrew, so there may be discrepancies in how it has been translated into English.

To homesick_american: You and I have vastly different outlooks on life, beliefs, etc and that's fine. You will not hear me mock your beliefs or you personally. I know you could care less about how I will treat you, but I wanted it to be stated upfront.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

*Preferably before this thread goes irredeemably tits up.

Well... now the mods can lock the thread and blame it on your use of the word tits!

[homesick_american 1]

To homesick_american: You and I have vastly different outlooks on life, beliefs, etc and that's fine. You will not hear me mock your beliefs or you personally. I know you could care less about how I will treat you, but I wanted it to be stated upfront.

Sure, sure...I'm the a$$hole and you're the good guy. If that's how you want to play it, that's fine with me.

You can't mock my beliefs because I don't actually have any. Mock me all you like; other people feel free to.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes I believe the way it is laid out in the Bible. I am not fluent in Hebrew, so there may be discrepancies in how it has been translated into English.

My problem with that is that the size of the Ark quoted in the Bible (300 cubits / 450 feet) is larger than the biggest wooden ship ever built. Using ancient world materials and the building techniques available at the beginning of the iron age it seems unlikely in the extreme that a ship could have been made that would be structurally seaworthy, that wouldn't fall apart under the stress of the water.

Also how the earth could have been repopulated without resorting to incest.

[Cassie 8]

To homesick_american: You and I have vastly different outlooks on life, beliefs, etc and that's fine. You will not hear me mock your beliefs or you personally. I know you could care less about how I will treat you, but I wanted it to be stated upfront.

Sure, sure...I'm the a$$hole and you're the good guy. If that's how you want to play it, that's fine with me.

You can't mock my beliefs because I don't actually have any. Mock me all you like; other people feel free to.

No, I'm not "playing" anything. Why must you infer that I think of you as the "bad guy"? Why must you think that you're automatically Satan Incarnate in my books because I'm a Christian and you aren't?

Your absence of religious beliefs is a set of beliefs, btw, and it's your perogative. And like I stated before, mocking isn't my style.

[homesick_american 1]

Yes I believe the way it is laid out in the Bible. I am not fluent in Hebrew, so there may be discrepancies in how it has been translated into English.

My problem with that is that the size of the Ark quoted in the Bible (300 cubits / 450 feet) is larger than the biggest wooden ship ever built. Using ancient world materials and the building techniques available at the beginning of the iron age it seems unlikely in the extreme that a ship could have been made that would be structurally seaworthy, that wouldn't fall apart under the stress of the water.

Also how the earth could have been repopulated without resorting to incest.

I always wondered that myself, but when I asked that question at CCD, the teacher sent me to see the head nun so I could get my hand slapped with a ruler. No joke.

[Cassie 8]

Yes I believe the way it is laid out in the Bible. I am not fluent in Hebrew, so there may be discrepancies in how it has been translated into English.

My problem with that is that the size of the Ark quoted in the Bible (300 cubits / 450 feet) is larger than the biggest wooden ship ever built. Using ancient world materials and the building techniques available at the beginning of the iron age it seems unlikely in the extreme that a ship could have been made that would be structurally seaworthy, that wouldn't fall apart under the stress of the water.

Also how the earth could have been repopulated without resorting to incest.

I personally chalk it up to "things I will be asking God once I get to heaven". Don't get me wrong, it's not a matter of just blissfully ignoring things that may not add up or can't be proven satisfactorily with scientific equations. I question lots of things and do investigating -- I'm not a history major for nothing! I have just come to accept that I may never get all the answers that I or others need to know in my lifetime, and that I believe that God is a mighty God where anything is possible.

[homesick_american 1]

No, I'm not "playing" anything. Why must you infer that I think of you as the "bad guy"? Why must you think that you're automatically Satan Incarnate in my books because I'm a Christian and you aren't?

Because I've been an atheist pretty much all my life, I've had this conversation many many many times, and I'm sure I'll have it many many more times before I die. I know exactly how this works. It's OK; I don't believe in jeebus and skygod and I haven't been saved, so I'm bad. I'm totally OK with that.

Your absence of religious beliefs is a set of beliefs, btw, and it's your perogative. And like I stated before, mocking isn't my style.

Apparently preaching and condescension are your style, though. It's OK...I can be condescending too, and have been in this thread. The difference is that I'm not saying that I'm not being condescending. I'm just being completely honest about my opinions because I don't see the point in sugarcoating it. A lot of atheists play the 'let's all get along, I respect your beliefs' card in public but in private, amongst other atheists, they sound just like me.

I don't see how my lack of belief in skygod constitutes a 'set' of beliefs. You could argue that it's a single belief, or you could argue that it's the abscence of a single belief. Call it a belief or an abscence of a belief, but don't call it a 'set' of beliefs because that's a mischaracterization of atheism.

[Cassie 8]

Yes I believe the way it is laid out in the Bible. I am not fluent in Hebrew, so there may be discrepancies in how it has been translated into English.

My problem with that is that the size of the Ark quoted in the Bible (300 cubits / 450 feet) is larger than the biggest wooden ship ever built. Using ancient world materials and the building techniques available at the beginning of the iron age it seems unlikely in the extreme that a ship could have been made that would be structurally seaworthy, that wouldn't fall apart under the stress of the water.

Also how the earth could have been repopulated without resorting to incest.

I always wondered that myself, but when I asked that question at CCD, the teacher sent me to see the head nun so I could get my hand slapped with a ruler. No joke.

See, that bugs me, in that you weren't allowed to question or investigate or have independent thought about what the Bible has to say. that's a perfectly valid question, and you should have been praised for thinking outside the Sunday School box and actually trying to figure more information than just the story. But then again, what do I know.

With that being said, I have a meeting to get to.

[Cassie 8]

No, I'm not "playing" anything. Why must you infer that I think of you as the "bad guy"? Why must you think that you're automatically Satan Incarnate in my books because I'm a Christian and you aren't?

Because I've been an atheist pretty much all my life, I've had this conversation many many many times, and I'm sure I'll have it many many more times before I die. I know exactly how this works. It's OK; I don't believe in jeebus and skygod and I haven't been saved, so I'm bad. I'm totally OK with that.

Your absence of religious beliefs is a set of beliefs, btw, and it's your perogative. And like I stated before, mocking isn't my style.

Apparently preaching and condescension are your style, though. It's OK...I can be condescending too, and have been in this thread. The difference is that I'm not saying that I'm not being condescending. I'm just being completely honest about my opinions because I don't see the point in sugarcoating it. A lot of atheists play the 'let's all get along, I respect your beliefs' card in public but in private, amongst other atheists, they sound just like me.

I don't see how my lack of belief in skygod constitutes a 'set' of beliefs. You could argue that it's a single belief, or you could argue that it's the abscence of a single belief. Call it a belief or an abscence of a belief, but don't call it a 'set' of beliefs because that's a mischaracterization of atheism.

Fair enough, I apologize for calling it a set of beliefs. I also apologize for apparently appearing to you as being condescending, that was so far from my intent that it isn't funny. I guess my idea of being open, honest, and upfront doesn't translate that well over the internet.

[homesick_american 1]

See, that bugs me, in that you weren't allowed to question or investigate or have independent thought about what the Bible has to say. that's a perfectly valid question, and you should have been praised for thinking outside the Sunday School box and actually trying to figure more information than just the story. But then again, what do I know.

The thing is, Cassie, that sort of treatment is the rule rather than the exception. Independent thought like that isn't really encouraged by religious institutions and questions like that are at least ignored or danced around if no longer routinely punished.

One of my major problems with Catholicism, Christianity, and religion in general is that I could never get a satisfactory answer to any question I ever asked of anybody. Priests, nuns, rabbis, reverends, etc. all danced around questions like this and gave me the same garbage about having to have 'faith' and how some questions are simply not 'answerable'. I found that completely unacceptable then, as I do now.

I realized I didn't believe in god when I was about 8 years old. When I brought this to the attention of my CCD teacher, I was expelled from CCD. My parents had to make a sizeable donation to the church in order to get them to take me back. She had to grovel to get me into confirmation classes at 13, which I was promptly thrown out of when I raised my hand and asked why the church insists on maintaining the celibacy rule, which was actually the topic of discussion.

So...you see why I immediately reject the faith argument? Do you get it?

[Jamie76 0]

I don't mean to offend, but I think people who actually believe the story of Noah's Ark are kidding themselves. It didn't happen.

In your opinion. I happen to believe otherwise.

But do you believe that it happened exactly the way its described in the Bible - that unlike many sources from ancient world that the story wasn't exaggerated and embellished a little bit for the benefit of its readers?

What I find interesting is that many cultures and religions have this belief in a great flood. From Christianity, to Native Americans to a number ot Tribes in South America.