Moved threads in the UK forum

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

methinks the was put away too soon.

[rebeccajo 14]

methinks the was put away too soon.

Are you an instigator or a fornicator?

[Fandango 1,439]

I'm a little confused. Of course no one should count on just ancedotal information, but I thought you guys were appointed to keep the information clear and clutter free for newbies? What was the purpose of getting organizers? To protect the flow of information?

We're debating on why it should be moved so that it helps more people even though it's already in a grey area...ok, so let's figure out what the benefit is to moving it...and then when a poster has an ancedote of how it hindered her and how it would have helped staying where it originally was, the answer is 'don't depend on here'/ 'the internet is a groovy place'?

It's a given personal responsibility is utmost in preparing and governing one's petition...but if the attitude is 'hey sort yourself out', then what purpose are you organizers here to serve?

Adding: this is NOT a popcorn moment, this is a genuine question

[rebeccajo 14]

We move something to where we think it will get the best answer AND where it will be read by others.

Not everybody is gonna agree.

Nobody said 'sort yourself out'. I said Leney did the SMART thing by looking more than one place for a solution.

Not the helpdesk, remember?

Edited May 24, 2007 by rebeccajo

[Leney 0]

Honestly, (and I'm a Libra I apologise) I see both sides of the coin. I don't believe I fussed or fumed about it previously, but I did want people to be aware it can cause problems. I consider myself a reasonable and responsible person, and I would think if I felt that my post was a pro pos to the UK regional discussion that in fact, that's where it may well belong But yes, I have taken responsibility for my own visa, I survived for months before finding VJ, though the friendliness and experience I have found amongst the UK regional forum has helped me through some very difficult and trying times, as I'm sure it has helped others too.

I actually thought someone disliked me for a while, because quite a few of my London Embassy specific questions were moved but I got over it lol Honestly, it's good to have a sense of humour about life, about this process, and about anything you read or see online because I bet 35% is good solid information, and the rest is conjecture and assumptions. Egos and attitudes have become evident (to me anyway) in the last week, and I don't think there is much place for it in a place which is meant to help, not aggravate.

I think (and sorry I am really not trying to instigate or step on anyone's toes) If people spent half as much time trying to help each other as they spend trying to one up the other, this would be an amazing place

<3

[LaL 418]

its a very grey area. maybe everyone needs to just be a little bit more flexible or forgiving. Organizers/Scouts are not perfect and neither are Members. Truely I do not believe anyone goes out of the way to make a mess.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

methinks the was put away too soon.

Are you an instigator or a fornicator?

since i'm just watching, i guess this makes me a voyeur

[Mags 112]

Yes, Organizers/Scouts keep the forums tidy. We also try and help out with questions, as do many other members, when we can. Clear information is ideal but not always possible, especially when people aren't sure of the answer but post anyway.

However, the point that has always been stressed is that personal responsibility is of the utmost importance. VJ is here to help, but it isn't the law and it isn't always foolproof. You shouldn't rely on just VJ as your source of information, that is the whole point here.

I really don't think I personally can add anything more to this topic without re-hashing old points over and over...which I really don't want to do. So, I'll PM the Captain and get him to come in to see if he fancies re-clarifying the grey areas again for us.

Sound good?

[rebeccajo 14]

Leney, I've moved consulate specific stuff out of Regional Forums because I believe the most READERS don't come to the Regional Forums.

Not posters, but readers.

When questions are answered they create a knowledge base for people using the Search function.

I dunno if that explains 'thread movement logic' from one person's perspective or not. But that's why I've moved 'em. I'm of the same mindset as Mags. I'd move ALL the consulate stuff to Consulates if I could. But I don't because frankly I know it's a hot potato topic.

Edited May 24, 2007 by rebeccajo

[Yodrak 7]

Daisy,

My understanding is the same as devilette's - the regional forums are intended for issues other than immigration topics.

While it might be nice to have consulate-specific forums for items that are consulate specific, there are few items that are truly consulate-specific except in the minute details and there are sooooo many consulates. And much that is truly consulate-specific could be put into the Embassy Info area?

It would also be nice if posters would refrain from answering a consulate-specific question with information about a different consulate, but so many VJers suffer from diarhhea of the fingers that that's just wishful thinking.

Yodrak

From VJ:

Regional Discussion

This Forum is dedicated to discussion on the major regions around the world. Topics of discussion may include travel, moving, what to eat and any other experience you may wish to share or inquire about. Have fun!

Just a question - that may get bounced to site discussion and prove the point further . . . . .

Psho posted a question specific to the UK forum which got moved to the general consulate discussion forum. That explains all the non-UK member responses that posted there, but, in that case, it was a question about London's requirements that probably should've stayed here. ........

[Jenn! 918]

Unless we have a moving guide that leaves absolutely no room for gray areas, I think this will continue to be a problem. I don't believe that there is consensus among the movers whether or not the regional forums are being used "properly". I am a fan of the regional forums, and I will admit that I've even moved questions *into* the MENA forum because I was sure that they would get quicker, more accurate responses there. For instance, one person was recently asking something specifically about being an Iraqi with an interview at the embassy in Jordan. Ok, technically I suppose that question should have gone in the Embassy forum, but I just knew that it would get the attention it needed in the MENA forum. All of the responses before the move just said to contact the embassy, but once moved into MENA, there was a detailed description of exactly what needed to be done by someone who had just been in that situation. Some people in MENA don't even venture out very often and would never have found that post otherwise.

Now on the other hand, if there were no regional forums, people wouldn't be just hanging out in their own little corner with all of their valuable information. So I do also understand the argument for eliminating the regional forums.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. It's been a long day. I guess my point is just that in the absence of hard and fast rules for the organizers, everyone will work off of their own interpretation and do what they think is ultimately best for posters. We all just have to use our best judgment at this point. Is it even possible to write a moving guide that removes any doubt?

[TimsDaisy 0]

Leney - thanks for sharing your story and putting this thread back into the right tone: one of honest discussion about the pros/cons of placing/moving threads where they are placed/moved. That was my only point ever.

And as someone who uses her caps lock frequently when admonishing posters to READ THE DAMN DIRECTIONS, I certainly agree that, bottom line, VJ is a free site where there's a bunch of information that can be helpful but isn't a substitute for personal initiative and education. I agree, even, to a certain extent, with devilette's approach of reading and learning about all kinds of areas and situations, even those outside of whatever we might personally have to deal with.

But most of that learn-it-all approach transititioned after our NOA2. I had 111 days (not all of which were spent on VJ, I filed and did the early stuff before I ever found this site) to learn stuff as a way to kill time. Post-NOA2, I have some specific questions and concerns and have researched, etc, and it's with some of these specific questions that I ran into subforum problems. Especially when it comes to seeing people get bum information from well-meaning, but specific-Embassy-ignorant posters.

It's certainly a caveat emptor world here at VJ, but by the same token, there's no reason NOT to try to make it as user-friendly and accurate as possible, when it doesn't require too much effort to make it so.

[rebeccajo 14]

Daisy, when I was wading through the pre-interview state, I spent most all my time at Consulates. I was on there A LOT. There was a BUNCH of UK'er's that summer and we had several threads going. I honestly can't remember if VJ had the Regional Forums back then. If it did, that wasn't where the consular action was.

When staring at the screen, I tend to see other stuff that interests me. So I'd wander in and out of questions regarding other consulates than our own. You might be surprised to learn that what Yodrak says is very true. Yes there are some differences but they aren't as fine as (I get the impression) you think they are.

Sorry, I'm digressing. I'm trying to say that the 'problem' of answering a query 'incorrectly' isn't a new one. I saw it happen often. Fortunately, there were veterans posters around to step into those threads and remind all to watch what they were answering. That polite admonition really wasn't a bad thing for the 'offenders' to learn.

But there was a real benefit to those other answers, in my opinion. I picked up knowledge about other consulates while reading those 'wrong' answers. It helped me understand what others were experiencing.

Today, I think it's an easier problem to solve. Just a couple of months ago Ewok gave us big shiny flags. You can't miss 'em. Readers might be well served to look to their left and check out the flag. Plus, it's really not bad manners to politely remind those who suffer from 'diarrhea fingers' to think before they post. A lot of them honestly think they are helping.

I don't feel your thread got off topic. Thread moving and forum posting go hand in hand. It's almost impossible to discuss one without the other.

Just one more thought for you. There's a load of members around here who long for a better spirit of community around VJ. Maybe if we weren't so busy segregating ourselves, the spirit would return?

Edited May 25, 2007 by rebeccajo

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

We shouldn't have regional forums at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TimsDaisy 0]

Daisy, when I was wading through the pre-interview state, I spent most all my time at Consulates. I was on there A LOT. There was a BUNCH of UK'er's that summer and we had several threads going. I honestly can't remember if VJ had the Regional Forums back then. If it did, that wasn't where the consular action was.

When staring at the screen, I tend to see other stuff that interests me. So I'd wander in and out of questions regarding other consulates than our own. You might be surprised to learn that what Yodrak says is very true. Yes there are some differences but they aren't as fine as (I get the impression) you think they are.

Sorry, I'm digressing. I'm trying to say that the 'problem' of answering a query 'incorrectly' isn't a new one. I saw it happen often. Fortunately, there were veterans posters around to step into those threads and remind all to watch what they were answering. That polite admonition really wasn't a bad thing for the 'offenders' to learn.

But there was a real benefit to those other answer, in my opinion. I picked up knowledge about another consulates while reading that 'wrong' answer. It helped me understand what others were experiencing.

Today, I think it's an easier problem to solve. Just a couple of months ago Ewok gave us big shiny flags. You can't miss 'em. Readers might be well served to look to their left and check out the flag. Plus, it's really not bad manners to politely remind those who suffer from 'diarrhea fingers' to think before they post. A lot of them honestly think they are helping.

I don't feel your thread got off topic. Thread moving and forum posting go hand in hand. It's almost impossible to discuss one without the other.

Just one more thought for you. There's a load of members around here who long for a better spirit of community around VJ. Maybe if we weren't so busy segregating ourselves, the spirit would return?

I think your experience reflects what is likely a common shift in the VJ user experience. I came to depend on the UK forum during my looong NOA2 wait. I'd go from the K1 forum to the UK forum, ducking in other areas only as things caught my eye. Because I was used to seeing all of the general embassy discussion type questions, etc, in the UK region, naturally, when it came time to buckle down and re-research what I'd read up on over the 111 days wait, I went back to the UK forum and only lately started getting more involved in checking the general embassy forum. (which forum still seems awkward and broad and unorganized, not necessarily wholly in a bad way, but it seems less focused because, well, it is less focused).

So I think some of the consular action has moved. At least some of the London action - because that's what I pay the MOST attention to. I don't ignore all others, but when I need answers I pay attention to the union jack/england/scot/etc flags most. I also tend to know how to help other UKers more because its the process with which I'm most familiar. And yes, the gentle explaining to others who answer based on their own experience which might be counter to a UKers is instructive for all, but it could turn what would otherwise be a 6 post thread into a 6 page thread as people leap on and go "what!? wait, that's NOT what I did, you're supposed to do x, y, z" or other not-on-point offerings.

It's an imperfect science, I know.

And as ever, I just go back to Ewok's guidelines which I see as leaning more to the stay-put side of things than whoever-organizers-in-the-UK-forum seem to.

You're used to it one way, based on when you joined and how long you've been here. I'm used to it another. My custom may more closely reflect other noobs and not-so-noobs, or not. You know 10x the information I do, so some things may seem more elementary to you than they do to me and even more so than to the person who just got here. This is all conjecture, but I don't think it is an unreasonable way of looking at the issue.

The regional forums - at least ours - as long as I have been here, have not at all been solely about exchanging Nigella recipes or commenting on footie and malteaser sources. Getting it back to that state is probably a futile endeavor.

As for getting us to be one big happy family - I'm all for it. But I think whether this is something a member prioritizes is determined by HOW they use and view the forums. I see it as, say, 35% we-share-cultural-exchange-issues-and-a-love-of-biccies and 65% "how do I do X with this London procedure/how long did it take you to get packet 4, etc." When viewed as a targeted information swap, I don't think it becomes a sad separatist issue. It becomes efficient information swapping.

follow up: on your specific question about whether a community spirit would return - I don't think the lack of a community spirit stems from there being regional forums. (Fora?) It comes from members' personalities and ways of interacting. Any anti-community spirit I've seen has been as likely to be intra-forum than inter-forum.

Edited May 25, 2007 by TimsDaisy