Engagement Photos with K1 petition?

[Ty/Ir 32]

7 hours ago, SueSaed said:

Hi VJers,

 

I’ve been reading a few posts this evening and got a little nervous. As I am waiting for my NOA2, I’ve been reading that USCIS can see formal engagement photos as being too engaged or almost married. My fiancé and I got engaged in our Orthodox Church in Jordan. I sent a few photos with my petition and its on our FB. Of course I’m wearing a simple red dress.  Not white! I included a certificate from the priest who stamped it who blessed our rings, and he wrote the date, our names and that he commenced our engagement. Will this be a problem with USCIS? I’m so confused now! All we wanted was a beautiful engagement ceremony! 

When I proposed I gave my fiance a ring. I sent a picture to USCIS of us together that included her wearing the ring. To my knowledge this is typical of engagements so I didn't think proof of engagement would somehow work against us for a fiance visa that is literally predicated on engagement. The scenario you're describing sounds a little beyond what we went through but I will say that marriage has a legal implication in most countries. If you are legally married then this would be a problem for sure, but if this a ceremonious thing without an element of legality then I really don't understand why this would be an issue. You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

 

Edit: To clarify I am not an expert and have no experience with this. This is just my opinion and the logic that I follow. It is possible, or even likely, that I am wrong and the posts of more experienced members with successful outcomes should be prioritized.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Tyler26
clarification

[SJordanS 343]

7 minutes ago, Tyler26 said:

When I proposed I gave my fiance a ring. I sent a picture to USCIS of us together that included her wearing the ring. To my knowledge this is typical of engagements so I didn't think proof of engagement would somehow work against us for a fiance visa that is literally predicated on engagement. The scenario you're describing sounds a little beyond what we went through but I will say that marriage has a legal implication in most countries. If you are legally married then this would be a problem for sure, but if this a ceremonious thing without an element of legality then I really don't understand why this would be an issue. You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

 

Edit: To clarify I am not an expert and have no experience with this. This is just my opinion and the logic that I follow. It is possible, or even likely, that I am wrong and the posts of more experienced members with successful outcomes should be prioritized.

 I agree with everything you said. I’m glad I’m not the only one who did a ceremonial engagement in church. It’s actually a beautiful thing. Sometimes families would have the priest come to the home and bless the rings followed by a party. I explained in my letter and hoping that the agent assigned to my case doesn’t understand it as marriage.  I’m not married and it’s quite clear all over social media and in my letter. So I’m just hoping for the best but had I come to this website before submitting my package I would’ve omitted it just to avoid the confusion for them.  

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

good luck to you, I hope it works out too ... 

 

the CO is most likely also not an Arab Christian so it's his experiences you need to be concerned with, as far as degrees of marriage, you are correct but perceptions do exist. 

 

Please keep us informed, and again, I hope all goes well for you 

[Ash.1101 1,756]

31 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

good luck to you, I hope it works out too ... 

 

the CO is most likely also not an Arab Christian so it's his experiences you need to be concerned with, as far as degrees of marriage, you are correct but perceptions do exist. 

 

Please keep us informed, and again, I hope all goes well for you 

 

Agreed. It’s what the CO things and believes, it doesn’t matter how honest one is or if they feel like they did the right thing. It’s the same as people who just say “but we’re in love!” And don’t understand why proof can help and hurt them.

 

example: some people think that showing they send their fiancé money helps

some COs think that the person is buying off someone from another country, purchasing a future spouse per se

 

What some people think is great proof, actually isn’t.

 

in this case if the CO is even slightly confused about the signed paper, then the visa will be rejected immediately, and the COs mind will be made up before you even interview (since you sent it with the petition).

 

 

Please remember the CO has total discretion on your case. It doesn’t matter what is true or how you feel, it matters how the officer feels and what they believe. If the officer feels like you’re too married, then you’re too married no matter what.

 

 

USCIS considered ceremonial/religious ceremonies to be almost one in the same as legal.

 

again though, let everyone know how it turns out. This is the first time on VJ I’ve seen a Christian ceremony at all (regardless of Arab or not) but it’s not the first time “engagement ceremonies” have ruined things for people.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ash.1101

[Paul & Mallory 1,398]

1 hour ago, Tyler26 said:

When I proposed I gave my fiance a ring. I sent a picture to USCIS of us together that included her wearing the ring. To my knowledge this is typical of engagements so I didn't think proof of engagement would somehow work against us for a fiance visa that is literally predicated on engagement. The scenario you're describing sounds a little beyond what we went through but I will say that marriage has a legal implication in most countries. If you are legally married then this would be a problem for sure, but if this a ceremonious thing without an element of legality then I really don't understand why this would be an issue. You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

 

Edit: To clarify I am not an expert and have no experience with this. This is just my opinion and the logic that I follow. It is possible, or even likely, that I am wrong and the posts of more experienced members with successful outcomes should be prioritized.

There is a plethora of threads about this particular point all over this website. It happens, and quite commonly. Nothing new.

 

You're either married or you're not, until you're someone applying for a FIANCE visa but got married, or get married while waiting, and try to pass it off as an engagement so as not to hinder the visa approval. Which happens. And is why the officers will deny a case if they have any reason to believe a couple is married in any way, in any country, because that literally goes against the entire point and purpose of a K1 visa.

 

I'm a Christian. And I have never heard of a church engagement as official as the OP described. So, unfortunately, there is a good chance the officer who ends up reviewing this when it's all said and done may not have, either. And will view it as a marriage or wedding ceremony.

 

We certainly do not WISH this outcome on you, OP - the aggressive approach to driving this probable outcome so hard is to properly convey to you the reality of it happening. Best thing to do is hope for the best, but plan for the worst - go ahead and have a backup plan just in case there is a denial in the future.

[Unlockable 7,315]

1 hour ago, Tyler26 said:

If you are legally married then this would be a problem for sure, but if this a ceremonious thing without an element of legality then I really don't understand why this would be an issue. You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

 

Welcome to the world of immigration. Many people are shocked to learn that, yes, they can be considered "too married" simply by having some form of ceremony. The phrase "too married" is simply an unofficial phrase used by people who are in the know of this process. In reality, the proper term would be ineligible to receive a fiance visa. ANY perception of a marital union, whether culturally normal/legal/unlegal, or not can be used against you. The key word in that last sentence is perception! Below are only a few threads where members have been denied. This is why research is paramount when going through this process. 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Unlockable

[Ash.1101 1,756]

I think one of the best ways to describe what you’re going to deal with is...

 

veterans here haven’t heard of a christian engagement. You are hoping the ONE human on this earth that is reviewing your case knows all about Christian engagements and won’t question your ability to be free to marry after seeing pictures.

 

those are lottery chances.

 

also note I wore a red dress to my first legal wedding. Dress colors don’t matter and they don’t make things any less or any more.

[David & Diana R 1,005]

7 hours ago, SueSaed said:

Of  Course we are not married. It is a family engagement and a lot of Christians do it in church and sometimes at home. But a priest will never lie on behalf of anyone. It is quite common there but im not sure it USCIS knows its common. 

Sorry I just had to laugh when I saw this sentence.  Have you watched the news in the last 30 years about priests?

[SJordanS 343]

Just now, David & Zoila said:

Sorry I just had to laugh when I saw this sentence.  Have you watched the news in the last 30 years about priests?

 Please don’t respond if you’re going to make comments not related to the subject matter. Thank you.  

5 hours ago, NicoleM said:

Engagement photos (as our quite popular in the US) are fine, but they are different then you explain (no ceremony or ring exchange, just us in nice outfits, in a place important to us, with a photographer). We included 5-6 engagement photos in our i129f package and got approved with no issues. We also had a collage of our engagement photos printed on postcards to announce our engagement that we sent out to family and friends. We included one of those postcards in our i129f, too. In US culture, engagement photos should not be an exchange of rings, or a ceremony in the church. That is seen as a wedding, whether you made it legal or not. In US culture, you look  married.

 

An exchange of rings or ceremony or anything in the church is probably seen as a wedding in the eyes of USCIS, but good luck with that.

 

Here's a pic of one of our engagement photos that we included

Thank you so much Nicole. 

[SJordanS 343]

3 hours ago, K & R said:

My biggest concern for you is that the IO is going to see the priest, certificate, church, and ring exchange and not be 100% confident that it is not a wedding. All of those factors could be tough to overcome. You should definitely consider a back up plan and it might be worth your wild to cancel the k-1, officially marry, and file the CR1. I don’t see this ending well for the k-1 at the consulate stage 😕 especially since other VJ members have been denied for much less. 

Thank you so much for your feedback. 

[nastra30 2,370]

OP, there's such a thing as too married for K1 and not married enough for CR1. One reason why CO will scrutinize a situation such as yours very closely is due people trying to skirt the immigration system. For instance in the past when K1 was much much more faster in terms of coming to the US, some married people pretended to be engaged (not married) so they can get visa faster. So when USE got hold of this scheme they also change their approval ways and it adversely affected those in situations like yours. And the rate of denial for situations like yours have become part of USE playbooks. I'll just say hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Good luck. 

[payxibka 10,047]

Perfect example of where providing information that is not a requirement for the petition to be approved could be extremely detrimental.  Petition approval is only one hurdle, It is possible the uscis will overlook but the information will be in the hands of the consulate and they may not 

Edited March 5, 2019 by payxibka

[Carpe Vinum 2,330]

2 hours ago, Tyler26 said:

When I proposed I gave my fiance a ring. I sent a picture to USCIS of us together that included her wearing the ring. To my knowledge this is typical of engagements so I didn't think proof of engagement would somehow work against us for a fiance visa that is literally predicated on engagement. The scenario you're describing sounds a little beyond what we went through but I will say that marriage has a legal implication in most countries. If you are legally married then this would be a problem for sure, but if this a ceremonious thing without an element of legality then I really don't understand why this would be an issue. You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

 

Edit: To clarify I am not an expert and have no experience with this. This is just my opinion and the logic that I follow. It is possible, or even likely, that I am wrong and the posts of more experienced members with successful outcomes should be prioritized.

It probably will not be an issue for you at the Russian consulate, But, for her, where she will interview it can be a very big problem. The idea of being too engaged may be counter-intuitive. But, many people have been denied the K-1 visa for it. Just do a search for 'too married for k1.' Good luck to all)

[usmsbow 802]

9 hours ago, SueSaed said:

Hi VJers,

 

I’ve been reading a few posts this evening and got a little nervous. As I am waiting for my NOA2, I’ve been reading that USCIS can see formal engagement photos as being too engaged or almost married. My fiancé and I got engaged in our Orthodox Church in Jordan. I sent a few photos with my petition and its on our FB. Of course I’m wearing a simple red dress.  Not white! I included a certificate from the priest who stamped it who blessed our rings, and he wrote the date, our names and that he commenced our engagement. Will this be a problem with USCIS? I’m so confused now! All we wanted was a beautiful engagement ceremony! 

 

My now-wife brought our engagement photos to her interview but they weren't in a church, nor did she provide anything else related to the engagement. There was also a sign in the background in one of the pics that included the words "Engagement Party". 

 

Anyway, what is done is done. At this point, all you can do is be prepared to explain everything when asked about it during the interview. Good luck! 

[payxibka 10,047]

2 hours ago, Tyler26 said:

When I proposed I gave my fiance a ring. I sent a picture to USCIS of us together that included her wearing the ring. To my knowledge this is typical of engagements so I didn't think proof of engagement would somehow work against us for a fiance visa that is literally predicated on engagement. The scenario you're describing sounds a little beyond what we went through but I will say that marriage has a legal implication in most countries. If you are legally married then this would be a problem for sure, but if this a ceremonious thing without an element of legality then I really don't understand why this would be an issue. You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

 

Edit: To clarify I am not an expert and have no experience with this. This is just my opinion and the logic that I follow. It is possible, or even likely, that I am wrong and the posts of more experienced members with successful outcomes should be prioritized.

I am curious as to where is proof of engagement is required evidence for the petition?