When is 10 year green card taken away during citizenship process

[Leo7777 243]

Wife has 10 year green card.  Filed for citizenship and interview scheduled for later in March.

We understand at some point, they will take away her 10 year green card.

Question is:  When will this happen.

1) at end of citizenship interview if they recommend yes?

2) at oath swearing in ceremony?

3) when she applies for US passport?

4) when she receives US passport?

 

The timing is important because she needs to travel out of country to visit parents whom she hasn't seen for a few years.

 

We are worried about getting her a plane ticket now for say in April because they might schedule her oath ceremony for April.

 

And, if they take away her 10 year green card before oath ceremony she would be worried about travel outside USA even if they  give her some sort of 'paper' document saying she is approved for citizenship.

 

Amazingly, the worry about travel actually increases as we go through the hurdles, when it should be decreasing.

 

For instance, it's easy to travel with student visa, and easy to travel with 2 year green card, but then you get a one year green card which always expires before the 10 year card comes, so then you have a 'paper' one year extension which has caused travel trouble for some persons.  And now it seems they will take away her 10 year green card before she has a USA PASSPORT.

 

What is the real situation her folks???

[Hypnos 6,576]

#2.

[gregcrs2 1,778]

The green card will be taken away the at the oath ceremony.   Better to wait until you know when she will have the oath ceremony.  Depending on how long she wants to visit, she may possibly travel prior to the oath ceremony.   After the oath ceremony, she will need to have a US passport to depart Ukraine and enter the USA as she will no longer have a green card or I-551 stamp in her foreign passport.

[Leo7777 243]

Thanks for two answers which agree on my #2 alternative.

More research reveals the following contradiction from two USA agencies.

USCIS states the # 2 alternative and, by saying you no longer need Green Card because you have a Cert of Naturalization . . . the implication is you can exit and enter USA with Cert of Naturalization same as with Green Card.

3.  Return your Permanent Resident Card

You must return your Permanent Resident Card to USCIS when you check in for your naturalization ceremony. This requirement is waived if you provided proof during the naturalization interview that the card has been lost and you have attempted to recover it, or if, because of your military service, you were never granted permanent residence. You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance.

 

However on CBP website:

Air Travel: All U.S. citizens departing from or entering the United States from within the Western Hemisphere by air are required to present a valid passport or a NEXUS card (if utilizing a NEXUS kiosk when departing from a designated Canadian airport). Merchant Mariner Document (for U.S. citizens on official maritime business.) U.S. Military identification card when traveling on official orders: Children are also required to present their own passport when traveling by air.

 

Nothing about validity of Cert of Naturalization to re-enter USA.

 

Further on CBP website:

Children: U.S. citizen children ages 15 and under arriving by land or sea from a contiguous territory (Canada or Mexico) may present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate (issued by the Vital Records Department in the state where he or she was born), a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or a Naturalization Certificate. 

 

So they do know what a Cert of Naturalization is; but disallow it for air travel.

- - - - - - - -

This gets back to my original post.  i.e. it is easier to travel early in this process (student visa, 2 year green card) than it is to travel at end of the process where they give you a paper 18 month extension letter (that many foreign airports don't know what to do with so deny you boarding to return to USA) and then take away your only valid document (10 year green card) and you wait 4-8 weeks for USA passport.

[Hypnos 6,576]

2 hours ago, Leo7777 said:

the implication is you can exit and enter USA with Cert of Naturalization same as with Green Card

Federal law requires US citizens to enter and exit the US on US passports (or Nexus cards in lieu of a US passport). This is codified at 8 USC 1185 (b):

 

Quote

Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Hypnos

[Leo7777 243]

2 hours ago, Hypnos said:

Federal law requires US citizens to enter and exit the US on US passports (or Nexus cards in lieu of a US passport). This is codified at 8 USC 1185 (b):

 

 

I am not doubting what you wrote.

 

However, we all know that one value of the 10 year green card was to allow you to travel out of and into USA.

So something that replaced 10 year green card should  do the  same . . . right ?

And USCIS  even sort of guarantees that with their wording.

 

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

i.e. you don't need green card for travel because you now have a Cert of Naturalization for travel . . . who could not understand this ?

 

[Hypnos 6,576]

1 hour ago, Leo7777 said:

However, we all know that one value of the 10 year green card was to allow you to travel out of and into USA.

So something that replaced 10 year green card should  do the  same . . . right ?

No. A green card holder is a permanent resident, and permanent residents need to present their green cards (or equivalent, such as an I-551 stamp in your foreign passport, or a re-entry permit) to enter the US. US citizens need to present a US passport to enter the US. A green card ≠ a certificate of naturalisation in this regard. That's just how it is.

 

Now, could you theoretically enter the US by presenting nothing other than a naturalisation certificate? (putting aside that no airline will let you board a flight to the US without a passport, but maybe you are trying to cross by land or sea) Probably. However, you'd probably be in Secondary for several hours, and at the end of it could face federal prosecution as a US citizen attempting to enter the US without presenting a US passport.

 

A naturalisation certificate is not a direct replacement for a green card.

[USS_Voyager 1,972]

17 hours ago, Leo7777 said:

 

We are worried about getting her a plane ticket now for say in April

Then don’t get the plane ticket for April. Get it in August or something. It is best to get the plane ticket after you know when the oath is. Or if she must go in April and the Oath is in April, then maybe reschedule the Oath until after she comes back. 

 

The precedure is what the procedure is, doesn’t matter how much you don’t like it or whine about it. To me, it’s pretty reasonable, you go to the Oath, you give up your GC because you no longer LPR, then you become a US citizen and you can apply for US passport. So really you’re whining about how long it takes to apply for a US passport, which is 2-3 weeks expedited or 4-6 weeks normal processing. PLAN AROUND IT, like the rest of us do.

[USS_Voyager 1,972]

By the way, OP also has another thread about the same thing. Should be merged.

[andy78 178]

They take the Green Card during the oath ceremony.

You cannot use a Green Card to travel if you are a US citizen.

The naturalization certificate cannot be used for travel. It is not a travel document.

A US Citizen must use a US passport to travel from and to the US.

 

[JFH 12,190]

At the oath ceremony they will have passport application packs available for those who wish to apply immediately. Major passport offices (such as major cities) offer a rush service for a handsome fee for people with imminent travel. Her situation is no different from any natural born USC who has never had a passport but needs to travel overseas at short notice. They would also need to go through the passport application procedure. Except she has the added advantage that she can hold onto the GC and use that to travel by postponing her oath ceremony. 

 

You’re making this into something it’s not. 

[arken 4,197]

12 hours ago, Leo7777 said:

I am not doubting what you wrote.

 

However, we all know that one value of the 10 year green card was to allow you to travel out of and into USA.

So something that replaced 10 year green card should  do the  same . . . right ?

 

Yes Green card allows to enter US but GC itself is not a travel document and is not used for travel in and out of US, passport is,  the foreign passport you would use for travel. Green card is just to prove you are a resident so they don’t need to see a visa in your foreign passport while entering US.

After you become the citizen upon receiving naturalization certificate, you cannot use foreign passport to enter US and u need a passport to travel back which is US passport. 

 

 

Quote

And USCIS  even sort of guarantees that with their wording.

 

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

i.e. you don't need green card for travel because you now have a Cert of Naturalization for travel . . . who could not understand this ?

 

Your understanding is incorrect. USCIS is simply stating you don’t need GC, a proof of residency since you are now a citizen. It’s not talking about travel.

Edited March 3, 2019 by arken

[Leo7777 243]

OK, I am going to irritate a lot of people . . . but I have never done that before, so I should be eligible !!  :-))

 

First, I fully understand that the entire process of getting married to foreigner, getting them legal status in USA and ultimately them getting citizenship is an honor and that we are all grateful that it is even possible.

 

Second, I fully admit that there are inconsistencies in the wording of USCIS statements and inconsistencies from person to person and office to office on how a case is handled.

 

But still . . . I must vent my frustration at this last stage . . . which should be the most comfortable of all given we have jumped through all the hoops . . . when in practice it is causing us the most trouble.

 

Let me address some prior posts and helpful replies from posters.

  Quote

And USCIS  even sort of guarantees that with their wording.

 

"You will no longer need your Permanent Resident Card because you will receive your Certificate of Naturalization after you take the Oath of Allegiance."

 

i.e. you don't need green card for travel because you now have a Cert of Naturalization for travel . . . who could not understand this ?

 

Arken replied:  Your understanding is incorrect. USCIS is simply stating you don’t need GC, a proof of residency since you are now a citizen. It’s not talking about travel.

 

I strongly disagree.  Nothing in USCIS statement would imply they are only talking about residency and not travel.  10 year GC is proof of residency and used for travel.  When USCIS says you no longer need GC because you have Cert of Naturalization . . . it means just that .  . . i.e. you can do everything with Cert that you could do with GC.   Since this is not true . . . then it is obvious that USCIS has seriously misworded their statements, and it is not me who have simply misinterpreted.

 

Example:  Suppose a person is receiving their permanent drivers license and is told . . . now turn in your learners permit because with DL you no longer need the learners permit.    So the person starts driving (just like they would start traveling with Cert of Naturalization) and is arrested for not having learners permit.  The person said:  I was told "don't need LP because now have DL."   Judge says:  "No, the meaning was you didn't need LP for proof of ID, it's not talking about actual driving."  See the stupidity of saying you no longer need something . . . and then later attaching limiting conditions as to when the statement is actually valid ?????

 

- - - - - - - 

 

OK that's some venting which no one wanted to hear !!   :-))

 

Now some personal things which no one wants to hear.

 

Wife went through the process of ROC and received the famous silly one year GC followed by 12 month extension letter and then 18 month extension letter.  When in possession of the extension letters, she was afraid to return to her home  country for the entire year because 'some' had had some trouble in trying to board the flights in home countries to return to USA due to boarding agents unfamiliarity with the validity of the extension letters.  Yes, I know some might  think that was silly, but it was the plan she followed.

 

Thus, at this point, she has not returned to see aged parents for over a year . . . and they plant huge garden every year starting in May which when she was on student visa, OPT visa, first 2 year GC she was able to be there to help.

 

We sent in her Citizenship application in January when the time tables provided on USCIS website showed estimated time of 10-12 months away.

That would be great because she could travel in May 2019 on 10 year green card and by May 2020 she would have USA passport.

Then we 'out of the blue' get interview scheduled for later this month.  Ordinarily   wooo hooo great, etc., etc.  Who could not want such an early surprise?

 

But now consider the timing.  Interview in late March, probable Oath ceremony in late April or mid May.  Then turn in Cert of Naturalization and apply for passport.  Receive passport late May.  Then look for airplane tickets which will cost something like 2X the price for travel in June or later compared to what they would cost if purchased a couple of weeks ago for travel in early May.  And no help for her aged parents for May planting for second year in a row.  And, no they will not accept money from her to hire others to help.

 

And to explain to aged parents that she cannot come as easily now that she is almost a USA citizen, as she could in the 8 or so prior years when she had only visa status and provisional GCs etc.  Makes a lot of sense to them . . . right ??  Actually sounds pretty phony to anyone who actually hears it.

OK, I just realized that some will suggest easy solutions:

1) Just cancel the citizenship application.  Travel in May on 10 year GC and start citizenship application again later.

2) Request delay of interview.

3) Refuse to go to first assigned Oath ceremony and ask for later date.

 

I am sure that, due to the anxiety of this entire process and due to current political wrangling the rules could change at any moment,  none here would actually do any of the above themselves.

 

 

Now I have outlined the personal . . . which no one wanted to hear !!!   Peace.  :-))

[Hypnos 6,576]

Almost everyone who applies for US citizenship would like to have your "problem" of receiving a much earlier interview than they anticipated.

[Leo7777 243]

4 minutes ago, Hypnos said:

Almost everyone who applies for US citizenship would like to have your "problem" of receiving a much earlier interview than they anticipated.

I already stated the same thing as you repeat here,  and told the logical reasoning in my posting.

 

"Ordinarily   wooo hooo great, etc., etc.  Who could not want such an early surprise?"

 

Please come up with something new and clever and don't just repeat me or others.  :-))

Edited March 3, 2019 by Leo7777