Finland's universal basic income trial finds giving unemployed people money didn't help them back to work

[OriZ 3,157]

Money did not appear to spur the recipients on to seek work more, researchers say

 

Finland’s ground-breaking experiment in basic income has failed to help the unemployed rejoin the workforce.

 

The two year test, saw 2,000 randomly-selected citizens who did not have jobs given €560 – about £490 – a month for two years. 

Although it was guaranteed to them whether they managed to find jobs or not, it did not appear to spur the recipients on to seek work more, researchers said.

 
“The impact on employment seems to have been minor on the grounds of the first trial year,” Finland’s minister of health and social affairs Pirkko Mattila said.

The experiment attracted global attention when it began, as it was the first time a European nation committed to paying its citizens a monthly tax-free wage with no strings attached. 

 
But when compared to a control group who were not receiving the basic income, the test subjects given the money, were not significantly more likely to have got back into employment.

However, they did report being happier and healthier than the control group.

“The basic income recipients of the test group reported better wellbeing in every way in comparison with the comparison group,” the trial’s chief researcher Olli Kangas said.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-universal-basic-income-trial-unemployment-experiment-trial-a8769621.html

 

Wait, what???? How?

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

On what planet would receiving "free money" from the government inspire someone to join the workforce?  😏

[Dashinka 24,653]

1 hour ago, OriZ said:

Money did not appear to spur the recipients on to seek work more, researchers say

 

Finland’s ground-breaking experiment in basic income has failed to help the unemployed rejoin the workforce.

 

The two year test, saw 2,000 randomly-selected citizens who did not have jobs given €560 – about £490 – a month for two years. 

Although it was guaranteed to them whether they managed to find jobs or not, it did not appear to spur the recipients on to seek work more, researchers said.

 
“The impact on employment seems to have been minor on the grounds of the first trial year,” Finland’s minister of health and social affairs Pirkko Mattila said.

The experiment attracted global attention when it began, as it was the first time a European nation committed to paying its citizens a monthly tax-free wage with no strings attached. 

 
But when compared to a control group who were not receiving the basic income, the test subjects given the money, were not significantly more likely to have got back into employment.

However, they did report being happier and healthier than the control group.

“The basic income recipients of the test group reported better wellbeing in every way in comparison with the comparison group,” the trial’s chief researcher Olli Kangas said.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-universal-basic-income-trial-unemployment-experiment-trial-a8769621.html

 

Wait, what???? How?

I am aghast!

[Dashinka 24,653]

1 hour ago, missileman said:

On what planet would receiving "free money" from the government inspire someone to join the workforce?  😏

And I would think one might be a bit happier as well getting free money.  I just wonder if more folks in the control group went and found employment.

 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

I think in many cases unsupported poorness inspires more people to work ... maybe I just don't get it 

[OriZ 3,157]

2 hours ago, missileman said:

On what planet would receiving "free money" from the government inspire someone to join the workforce?  😏

On commi and soci planets, apparently. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

 

 In my own experience, looking at people who come into an unexpected sum of money, I have seen it work both ways. Some people continue to work, even work harder and become motivated to work towards something bigger. Others start planning early retirement.

 

   I know the study was design to look at several factors, only one of which was how basic income would affect getting back to work when one was unemployed. Intuitively, it would seem it would not get people back to work faster. I'm not sure an experiment was really necessary to deduce that. I would think the data was probably further skewed by selecting people who were all unemployed to begin with, since it would probably make sense that there would be at least some preexisting bias against "work" or possibly reduced ability or skills needed for work in this population when compared to selecting a random sampling of the entire population. 

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,661]

9 hours ago, missileman said:

On what planet would receiving "free money" from the government inspire someone to join the workforce?  😏

The Planet of the Occasional-Cortices.

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

9 hours ago, missileman said:

On what planet would receiving "free money" from the government inspire someone to join the workforce?  😏

In a lot of instances it makes it harder to return to work. 

 

Many years ago things didn't work out as planned and I ended up out of work. I ended up getting approximately 1700 euro per month in unemployment benefits, around another 700 euro monthly children's allowance. Rent subsidised heavily, home heating heavily subsidised, free landline with an allowance for free phone calls. Let's not forget the free unlimited healthcare because the whole family had medical cards. Also you had the option to go to a welfare officer and get checks from him to cover any household items you might need. 

 

The big problem occurs when you start looking for work and you start to compare the financial benefits and then you decide it's easier to sit on your ### and get paid to do nothing. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

In a lot of instances it makes it harder to return to work. 

 

Many years ago things didn't work out as planned and I ended up out of work. I ended up getting approximately 1700 euro per month in unemployment benefits, around another 700 euro monthly children's allowance. Rent subsidised heavily, home heating heavily subsidised, free landline with an allowance for free phone calls. Let's not forget the free unlimited healthcare because the whole family had medical cards. Also you had the option to go to a welfare officer and get checks from him to cover any household items you might need. 

 

The big problem occurs when you start looking for work and you start to compare the financial benefits and then you decide it's easier to sit on your ### and get paid to do nothing. 

 

   I think it comes down to the individual. One of our department managers got laid off a few years ago and she ended up with 40 weeks of severance pay. I ran into her about a month after and asked her if she was taking some time to relax or go on vacation and she said she was about to start a new job already. She seemed pretty excited about keeping the severance money in her savings account. 

 

  

[Unidentified 2,930]

In Sweden, you have to prove that you are actively applying for jobs to get benefits like that. A friend of mine was getting money after she was more or less forced to move out because she couldn't get along with her mother. She also got diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. She eventually got a job (after she got her fibromyalgia somewhat in check) and she's doing good. Before she got the job she said she felt bad about getting money and not being able to work. Everyone is different and have different work ethics. Most people I know that live in a society where you contribute to universal health care etc feel good about contributing and therefore people want to work and be able to pay taxes. It helps everyone. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   I think it comes down to the individual. One of our department managers got laid off a few years ago and she ended up with 40 weeks of severance pay. I ran into her about a month after and asked her if she was taking some time to relax or go on vacation and she said she was about to start a new job already. She seemed pretty excited about keeping the severance money in her savings account. 

 

  

HUGE difference in severance pay and unemployment though.  One is lump sump.  The other, you have to be unemployed for months to gain the most benefit.  

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

3 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   I think it comes down to the individual. One of our department managers got laid off a few years ago and she ended up with 40 weeks of severance pay. I ran into her about a month after and asked her if she was taking some time to relax or go on vacation and she said she was about to start a new job already. She seemed pretty excited about keeping the severance money in her savings account. 

 

  

The problem I found initially was not being able to find an income that could replace the benefits that my family was getting but I got there eventually. When the benefits are higher than what a job provides it gives those who can't find a way out no option but to stay the way they are. The system handicaps you and traps you in and be hard to get out. 

 

I believe Ireland has made changes since that period and wages have increased so there is an incentive to work. Also at one point they were giving benefits to 16 year olds, they saw easy cash for booze and partying and left school early. That has changed and the benefits are much lower for teenagers now.

 

I guess my point is nothing is ever free, even free money causes damage.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

The problem I found initially was not being able to find an income that could replace the benefits that my family was getting but I got there eventually. When the benefits are higher than what a job provides it gives those who can't find a way out no option but to stay the way they are. The system handicaps you and traps you in and be hard to get out. 

 

I believe Ireland has made changes since that period and wages have increased so there is an incentive to work. Also at one point they were giving benefits to 16 year olds, they saw easy cash for booze and partying and left school early. That has changed and the benefits are much lower for teenagers now.

 

I guess my point is nothing is ever free, even free money causes damage.

I agree with you 100%.  As long as a person is getting enough with no effort, why seek work to gain more?  Now, if the money is a pittance, and doesn’t cover the bills, but just assists living costs, then there is incentive to get out and find work that pays the bills.

 

It’s very simple economics.  Much like AOCs 70% federal tax proposal.  I would simply quit working and wait on the gubmint to take care of me vs. working and giving 70% of what I make to them.

[millefleur 5,047]

15 hours ago, OriZ said:

The two year test, saw 2,000 randomly-selected citizens who did not have jobs given €560 – about £490 – a month for two years. 

Is this enough money to just live off of in Finland? I've been to Finland, it's an expensive place, at least in the Helsinki area, which is where the majority population is. It's hard for me to believe this would cover the cost of living to the point where people would just kick back and not need to earn more money and still maintain the high quality of life that Finland is well known for. Perhaps this was in addition to other benefits they were receiving? Were they living with their parents or someone else who was paying the bills? 🤔

 

UBI has long been considered a dubious solution, even by some hardcore leftists:

 

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by millefleur