Should you be able to sue because of your own stupidity?

[Fuzzness 2]

Not at all...at 18 you are responsible for yourself so no, not 30

And sure...you can't watch your kids 24/7...but at the same time...we're talking about breaking onto a job site, climbing a ladder to the roof of a business....that, to me, is a little extreme. We're not talkin about climbin the neighbor's tree. To me, there's a big difference.

I'm also not saying accidents won't happen from time to time...but shifting responsibility is the problem. when I was young, and got into scrapes...ie falling out of a tree....my parents didn't go sue the homeowner of the tree, the grower of the tree, the fertilizer company, the shoes I wore to climb the tree, etc. I was told to not climb the tree again. And I didn't.

As far as the ladder is concerned, we're all speculating as to the access of it. But if someone was working on the roof, then had to go to pee or summat...well, I don't think it's logical to have to remove the ladder & lock it up completely while you take a few minutes break. Nothing would ever get done!

Also, if I had a ladder laying on the ground on the side of my house & some kid jumped the fence, put the ladder up and gotten on my roof...I'm sorry, but that is so not my responsibility. The child is technically in the process of a crime...however small it may be...and I don't think ppl should be allowed to profit while in the midst of breaking the law.

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

[faith 0]

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

If a child doesn't have the proper mental capacity to make good judgements, then no...he should not be left to wander & get into trouble.

It is not the responsibility of the job site to watch and care for unsupervised children.

Just because a ladder might have been nearby does not mean that the site was unsafe. No one told those boys to climb it. No one made those boys trespass. If there was work being done there...what are the workers supposed to do? Lock up everything when not currently in use just because some child may somehow climb a fence and trespass? Seriously, this is so ridiculous & I am sick to death of parents pushing their own failures onto the rest of society. I have two step-daughters...and guess what? It is OUR - me, their mother's & their father's responsibility as parents (moreso them than me, but you know) to make sure they don't get into trouble. The older one will be 13...and guess what? If she goes anywhere, we're not too far behind her. She's slowly getting the freedom a teen has...but only after she's learned how to handle the responsibility that comes with it.

It doesn't take a frickin village to raise a kid, and tbh...it's not our responsibility.

by your logic, anyone under the age of 30 should not be left to their own devices and should be supervised by mommy and daddy at all times.

Yes, by law they are required to lock up everything while not on the job site.

You can not stop a pre-teen or teenage boy from experimenting with danger. No matter how much you shelter him. I've watched my kids jump dirt bike ramps since they were 4 on their bikes. I've nursed cut legs and knees and elbows from the scooter accidents. My children do not run the neighborhood causing trouble, they run the neighborhood playing with their friends.

ALL kids make bad judgements. Period.

Not at all...at 18 you are responsible for yourself so no, not 30

And sure...you can't watch your kids 24/7...but at the same time...we're talking about breaking onto a job site, climbing a ladder to the roof of a business....that, to me, is a little extreme. We're not talkin about climbin the neighbor's tree. To me, there's a big difference.

I'm also not saying accidents won't happen from time to time...but shifting responsibility is the problem. when I was young, and got into scrapes...ie falling out of a tree....my parents didn't go sue the homeowner of the tree, the grower of the tree, the fertilizer company, the shoes I wore to climb the tree, etc. I was told to not climb the tree again. And I didn't.

As far as the ladder is concerned, we're all speculating as to the access of it. But if someone was working on the roof, then had to go to pee or summat...well, I don't think it's logical to have to remove the ladder & lock it up completely while you take a few minutes break. Nothing would ever get done!

Also, if I had a ladder laying on the ground on the side of my house & some kid jumped the fence, put the ladder up and gotten on my roof...I'm sorry, but that is so not my responsibility. The child is technically in the process of a crime...however small it may be...and I don't think ppl should be allowed to profit while in the midst of breaking the law.

Businesses are required by law to live up to a higher standard of safety. And yeah, OSHA would have a field day with someone leaving a ladder laying around on the job site, even if they only went to go pee.

We don't know that the kids "broke into" a job site. All that was stated was that they fell from a ladder at a factory.

[Jenn! 918]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Not at all...at 18 you are responsible for yourself so no, not 30

And sure...you can't watch your kids 24/7...but at the same time...we're talking about breaking onto a job site, climbing a ladder to the roof of a business....that, to me, is a little extreme. We're not talkin about climbin the neighbor's tree. To me, there's a big difference.

I'm also not saying accidents won't happen from time to time...but shifting responsibility is the problem. when I was young, and got into scrapes...ie falling out of a tree....my parents didn't go sue the homeowner of the tree, the grower of the tree, the fertilizer company, the shoes I wore to climb the tree, etc. I was told to not climb the tree again. And I didn't.

As far as the ladder is concerned, we're all speculating as to the access of it. But if someone was working on the roof, then had to go to pee or summat...well, I don't think it's logical to have to remove the ladder & lock it up completely while you take a few minutes break. Nothing would ever get done!

Also, if I had a ladder laying on the ground on the side of my house & some kid jumped the fence, put the ladder up and gotten on my roof...I'm sorry, but that is so not my responsibility. The child is technically in the process of a crime...however small it may be...and I don't think ppl should be allowed to profit while in the midst of breaking the law.

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Are you sure that the child LIFTED the ladder up to the roof?

It may have been a service-access ladder which was integrally (to the building) constructed.

(doesn't change the fact that the two boys were trespassing, and should have known what they were doing was wrong)

[Kajikit 65]

I can't find anything else about it or I'd give you the facts... I'm sure it will show up in the print media in the next few days.

I still feel this is a case of personal responsibility... you have to draw the line somewhere! If something fell off the roof onto them, it would be the factory-owners fault. If the LADDER fell on them while they were innocently walking by, it would be the factory owner's fault. But they had to take SEVERAL deliberate and considered actions to get into their predicimant -

First, they trespassed on private property and nosed around a factory. (when I was a kid that would have stopped me in my tracks!)

Second, they climbed a ladder - a very TALL ladder.

Third, they walked on the factory roof.

And Fourth, they stepped on a skylight and fell through.

That has to make them at least 50% responsible for what happened to them...

[Aymerlu 3]

People are wayyyyyyy toooooo freakin sue happy!!! A line needs to be drawn somewhere. If my kids did that....I would make sure they were doing ok....then I'd beat their little butts!

[Fuzzness 2]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Not at all...at 18 you are responsible for yourself so no, not 30

And sure...you can't watch your kids 24/7...but at the same time...we're talking about breaking onto a job site, climbing a ladder to the roof of a business....that, to me, is a little extreme. We're not talkin about climbin the neighbor's tree. To me, there's a big difference.

I'm also not saying accidents won't happen from time to time...but shifting responsibility is the problem. when I was young, and got into scrapes...ie falling out of a tree....my parents didn't go sue the homeowner of the tree, the grower of the tree, the fertilizer company, the shoes I wore to climb the tree, etc. I was told to not climb the tree again. And I didn't.

As far as the ladder is concerned, we're all speculating as to the access of it. But if someone was working on the roof, then had to go to pee or summat...well, I don't think it's logical to have to remove the ladder & lock it up completely while you take a few minutes break. Nothing would ever get done!

Also, if I had a ladder laying on the ground on the side of my house & some kid jumped the fence, put the ladder up and gotten on my roof...I'm sorry, but that is so not my responsibility. The child is technically in the process of a crime...however small it may be...and I don't think ppl should be allowed to profit while in the midst of breaking the law.

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Are you sure that the child LIFTED the ladder up to the roof?

It may have been a service-access ladder which was integrally (to the building) constructed.

(doesn't change the fact that the two boys were trespassing, and should have known what they were doing was wrong)

I will bold part of the quote to which i was agreeing with

Edited March 24, 2006 by Fuzzness

[Jenn! 918]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Well then, good thing the kid's in a coma. He sure got what he deserved.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Not at all...at 18 you are responsible for yourself so no, not 30

And sure...you can't watch your kids 24/7...but at the same time...we're talking about breaking onto a job site, climbing a ladder to the roof of a business....that, to me, is a little extreme. We're not talkin about climbin the neighbor's tree. To me, there's a big difference.

I'm also not saying accidents won't happen from time to time...but shifting responsibility is the problem. when I was young, and got into scrapes...ie falling out of a tree....my parents didn't go sue the homeowner of the tree, the grower of the tree, the fertilizer company, the shoes I wore to climb the tree, etc. I was told to not climb the tree again. And I didn't.

As far as the ladder is concerned, we're all speculating as to the access of it. But if someone was working on the roof, then had to go to pee or summat...well, I don't think it's logical to have to remove the ladder & lock it up completely while you take a few minutes break. Nothing would ever get done!

Also, if I had a ladder laying on the ground on the side of my house & some kid jumped the fence, put the ladder up and gotten on my roof...I'm sorry, but that is so not my responsibility. The child is technically in the process of a crime...however small it may be...and I don't think ppl should be allowed to profit while in the midst of breaking the law.

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Are you sure that the child LIFTED the ladder up to the roof?

It may have been a service-access ladder which was integrally (to the building) constructed.

(doesn't change the fact that the two boys were trespassing, and should have known what they were doing was wrong)

I will bold part of the quote to which i was agreeing with

Inititally I'd thought you were referring to Kajikit's original post--which you weren't.

[Fuzzness 2]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Well then, good thing the kid's in a coma. He sure got what he deserved.

please don't twist my words around like that. it's not very nice. in no way did I ever say he got what he deserved although that seems to be what you are implying. I'm just saying most kids know what they are doing. they're not stupid.

[Jenn! 918]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Well then, good thing the kid's in a coma. He sure got what he deserved.

please don't twist my words around like that. it's not very nice. in no way did I ever say he got what he deserved although that seems to be what you are implying. I'm just saying most kids know what they are doing. they're not stupid.

I didn't mean to twist your words.

My point is that in defending the property owner in this situation, a position I can definitely sympathize with, many people seem to be criminalizing the boys. Smart thing to do? No. Wrong to such a degree that any sympathy for their tragedy is unwarranted? Of course not.

[Fuzzness 2]

I didn't mean to twist your words.

My point is that in defending the property owner in this situation, a position I can definitely sympathize with, many people seem to be criminalizing the boys. Smart thing to do? No. Wrong to such a degree that any sympathy for their tragedy is unwarranted? Of course not.

I completely agree with you there.

[Fandango 1,439]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Well then, good thing the kid's in a coma. He sure got what he deserved.

please don't twist my words around like that. it's not very nice. in no way did I ever say he got what he deserved although that seems to be what you are implying. I'm just saying most kids know what they are doing. they're not stupid.

I didn't mean to twist your words.

My point is that in defending the property owner in this situation, a position I can definitely sympathize with, many people seem to be criminalizing the boys. Smart thing to do? No. Wrong to such a degree that any sympathy for their tragedy is unwarranted? Of course not.

Not to split hairs here, but what they did was illegal. That doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for the boys....I do...but at the end of the day, it's a predicament completely brought about by their illegal actions. Does anyone feel for the factory owner???? He/She could be put out of business for this. What if a huge judgement beyond insurance is awarded? Who knows how many ppl work there that are in jeopardy now. How many households could this affect, do ya think?

[faith 0]

I agree completely. I believe that a kid who is big enough and strong enough to lift a ladder up to a roof is also probably old enough to know the difference between right at wrong.

Don't you mean legal and illegal rather than right and wrong?

no

Well then, good thing the kid's in a coma. He sure got what he deserved.

please don't twist my words around like that. it's not very nice. in no way did I ever say he got what he deserved although that seems to be what you are implying. I'm just saying most kids know what they are doing. they're not stupid.

I didn't mean to twist your words.

My point is that in defending the property owner in this situation, a position I can definitely sympathize with, many people seem to be criminalizing the boys. Smart thing to do? No. Wrong to such a degree that any sympathy for their tragedy is unwarranted? Of course not.

Not to split hairs here, but what they did was illegal. That doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for the boys....I do...but at the end of the day, it's a predicament completely brought about by their illegal actions. Does anyone feel for the factory owner???? He/She could be put out of business for this. What if a huge judgement beyond insurance is awarded? Who knows how many ppl work there that are in jeopardy now. How many households could this affect, do ya think?

Again, do we know the circumstances? NO we don't. If the factory was open and is not off limits to the public then they were not tresspassing either. IF the ladder was laying there against the side of the building unattended, then what the company was doing was wrong according to business safety standards regulated by OSHA.

[Aymerlu 3]

i heard of a robber going through the skylight of a house and landing on some knives that the homeowners had left out. he hurt himself on them and sued the homeowners for his injuries. the theif won!

Yes, I have heard that too! Completely ridiculous! I have also heard of the robber that broke into a house and the homeowner shot him. Homeowner was sued. Definately something wrong with the system.