Should you be able to sue because of your own stupidity?

[almaty 19]

Personal responsibility no longer exists because these chopf#ck judges judge in favour of the idiot jerks that file these moronic lawsuits.

well stated...

But it IS the responsibility of the factory to secure their site...we don't know all the facts here.

oh, i was saying well stated an a thumbs up to the excellent use of the word chopf##k, sister fraces

[Kajikit 65]

The real blame comes back to the medical system though... if you have an accident you HAVE to find someone to blame so that you can get money back from them or their insurer to pay for the horrendous costs of your medical treatment. Otherwise you'll be bankrupt.

When I was a kid I was playing at school doing something that we shouldn't really have been doing (having handstand competitions on a row of benches) and I fell off the end and gashed my leg open on a broken tree limb. We could have sued the school for putting the benches where they were, or not maintaining the tree, not not providing enough playground supervision, but we didn't. I went to the hospital and got stitched up and it was over. My parents paid about a hundred dollars in basic hospital charges and that was it. If it happened in the US you'd have to sue the school, the teacher who was supposed to be on yard duty, and the kid who instigated the competition... It's moronic.

If they were too young to have proper judgement then they were FAR too young to be riding their bikes around the neighbourhood by themselves... so the blame comes back to the parents for letting them out unsupervised, or leaving them unsupervised so they could go out without permission.

I'm aware of the really f#ed up lawsuit business in the US and it's just plain WRONG... I'm sorry, but if you are trespassing where there is a no trespassing sign, or a fence saying DANGER KEEP OUT or some other obvious means of indicating private property or danger, you should lose all right to claim damages.

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

No we should NOT be holding their hands at that age. At twelve they should be old enough to know that it's dangerous and stupid to climb ladders in strange places... not that that would stop them from doing it (I know boys that well...) but they have to start taking responsibility for their own behaviour some time! They are old enough to know that being a hundred feet off the ground is DANGEROUS. And as for the 17yos, it's Darwinian selection in action. There's a reason young men have a death rate about fifty times higher than young women!

Edited March 24, 2006 by Kajikit

[Mirorgate 0]

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

Faith.. so you advocate that Average Joe Citizen Home owner should be liable for someone else stupid moments? Cause I for one would prefer for ppl to step to the plate be responsible for their own f#cktard moment.

The real blame comes back to the medical system though... if you have an accident you HAVE to find someone to blame so that you can get money back from them or their insurer to pay for the horrendous costs of your medical treatment. Otherwise you'll be bankrupt.

Kaj.. while I admit that health care has increased... it has done so for more than just "because". You want to see frivolous lawsuits by the hudreds of thousands... work in the medical industry. Neo-Natal physicians have decreased over the years because they pay one of the highest premiums of all physicians... why? Because parents can sue the delivering Dr until that child turns 21. I say if ya can't tell the delivery was botched within say.. a year... forget it.

There are a lot of justifiable lawsuits.... but they are dwarfed in count by the bogus/frivolous ones easily. Don't believe me? Watch TV at 3am and see how many ambualnce char lawyers have their commercials running every 30 minutes. Deplorable.

[Sister Fracas 5]

oh, i was saying well stated an a thumbs up to the excellent use of the word chopf##k, sister fraces

If the site was well secured, with "Keep Out - Danger" signs...then they shouldn't have to fork out for these two kids. If not, they are liable. Parents DO need to accept responsibility for their kids and that doesn't mean being with them everywhere they go. But if the kid makes a bad decision, ignoring warnings, a parent has to say, my kid screwed up, and then ground their azz!

But we still don't know all the facts in this particular case.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Frances

[faith 0]

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

Faith.. so you advocate that Average Joe Citizen Home owner should be liable for someone else stupid moments? Cause I for one would prefer for ppl to step to the plate be responsible for their own f#cktard moment.

The real blame comes back to the medical system though... if you have an accident you HAVE to find someone to blame so that you can get money back from them or their insurer to pay for the horrendous costs of your medical treatment. Otherwise you'll be bankrupt.

Kaj.. while I admit that health care has increased... it has done so for more than just "because". You want to see frivolous lawsuits by the hudreds of thousands... work in the medical industry. Neo-Natal physicians have decreased over the years because they pay one of the highest premiums of all physicians... why? Because parents can sue the delivering Dr until that child turns 21. I say if ya can't tell the delivery was botched within say.. a year... forget it.

There are a lot of justifiable lawsuits.... but they are dwarfed in count by the bogus/frivolous ones easily. Don't believe me? Watch TV at 3am and see how many ambualnce char lawyers have their commercials running every 30 minutes. Deplorable.

No but if you are stupid enough to have something dangerous laying on your property with no fences and no warning signs and no security at all to it, then yes, you should be liable if some kid comes and hurts himself or herself. Just as Frances said, we don't know the whole story in this case. However, it is legally your responsibility as a homeowner or property owner to secure your property so that things like that don't happen. If you don't and it does, then it is just as much your fault as the child that made the bad decision, in fact, even more so because you are the adult and should definitely know better.

The real blame comes back to the medical system though... if you have an accident you HAVE to find someone to blame so that you can get money back from them or their insurer to pay for the horrendous costs of your medical treatment. Otherwise you'll be bankrupt.

When I was a kid I was playing at school doing something that we shouldn't really have been doing (having handstand competitions on a row of benches) and I fell off the end and gashed my leg open on a broken tree limb. We could have sued the school for putting the benches where they were, or not maintaining the tree, not not providing enough playground supervision, but we didn't. I went to the hospital and got stitched up and it was over. My parents paid about a hundred dollars in basic hospital charges and that was it. If it happened in the US you'd have to sue the school, the teacher who was supposed to be on yard duty, and the kid who instigated the competition... It's moronic.

If they were too young to have proper judgement then they were FAR too young to be riding their bikes around the neighbourhood by themselves... so the blame comes back to the parents for letting them out unsupervised, or leaving them unsupervised so they could go out without permission.

I'm aware of the really f#ed up lawsuit business in the US and it's just plain WRONG... I'm sorry, but if you are trespassing where there is a no trespassing sign, or a fence saying DANGER KEEP OUT or some other obvious means of indicating private property or danger, you should lose all right to claim damages.

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

No we should NOT be holding their hands at that age. At twelve they should be old enough to know that it's dangerous and stupid to climb ladders in strange places... not that that would stop them from doing it (I know boys that well...) but they have to start taking responsibility for their own behaviour some time! They are old enough to know that being a hundred feet off the ground is DANGEROUS. And as for the 17yos, it's Darwinian selection in action. There's a reason young men have a death rate about fifty times higher than young women!

and how do you suggest that a child making a bad decision should pay? Be in a coma for the rest of his life? Suffer physcial injury? A normal ADULT is old enough to know that you don't leave things laying around like that without securing the area. That is my point.

Edited March 24, 2006 by faith

[Fandango 1,439]

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

If a child doesn't have the proper mental capacity to make good judgements, then no...he should not be left to wander & get into trouble.

It is not the responsibility of the job site to watch and care for unsupervised children.

Just because a ladder might have been nearby does not mean that the site was unsafe. No one told those boys to climb it. No one made those boys trespass. If there was work being done there...what are the workers supposed to do? Lock up everything when not currently in use just because some child may somehow climb a fence and trespass? Seriously, this is so ridiculous & I am sick to death of parents pushing their own failures onto the rest of society. I have two step-daughters...and guess what? It is OUR - me, their mother's & their father's responsibility as parents (moreso them than me, but you know) to make sure they don't get into trouble. The older one will be 13...and guess what? If she goes anywhere, we're not too far behind her. She's slowly getting the freedom a teen has...but only after she's learned how to handle the responsibility that comes with it.

It doesn't take a frickin village to raise a kid, and tbh...it's not our responsibility.

[faith 0]

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

If a child doesn't have the proper mental capacity to make good judgements, then no...he should not be left to wander & get into trouble.

It is not the responsibility of the job site to watch and care for unsupervised children.

Just because a ladder might have been nearby does not mean that the site was unsafe. No one told those boys to climb it. No one made those boys trespass. If there was work being done there...what are the workers supposed to do? Lock up everything when not currently in use just because some child may somehow climb a fence and trespass? Seriously, this is so ridiculous & I am sick to death of parents pushing their own failures onto the rest of society. I have two step-daughters...and guess what? It is OUR - me, their mother's & their father's responsibility as parents (moreso them than me, but you know) to make sure they don't get into trouble. The older one will be 13...and guess what? If she goes anywhere, we're not too far behind her. She's slowly getting the freedom a teen has...but only after she's learned how to handle the responsibility that comes with it.

It doesn't take a frickin village to raise a kid, and tbh...it's not our responsibility.

by your logic, anyone under the age of 30 should not be left to their own devices and should be supervised by mommy and daddy at all times.

Yes, by law they are required to lock up everything while not on the job site.

You can not stop a pre-teen or teenage boy from experimenting with danger. No matter how much you shelter him. I've watched my kids jump dirt bike ramps since they were 4 on their bikes. I've nursed cut legs and knees and elbows from the scooter accidents. My children do not run the neighborhood causing trouble, they run the neighborhood playing with their friends.

ALL kids make bad judgements. Period.

[Mirorgate 0]

Faith.. don't get me wrong... I agree with a lot of your points.. and well stated. But it breaks down to self-responsibility. If I, as Joe House Owner leave a loaded shot-gun on my back porch as I goto work and neighbors kid tresspasses and shoots 3rd neighbors' cat.. then yes, I am partially to blame. Totally? No, As the kid totally tresspassed... but I can gaurantee you who court would blame 100%... an it aint the cat or kid.

Now, If again... same type of scenario.. except shotgun is inside my house, locked door back door, but the gun cabinet is left ajar and kid knows i have one... B&E, takes gun shoots cat... again, who is liable? I do not believe that I would be absolved of all responsibility again, even though my house was secured, and I have signs stating that house protected against tresspassers.

Noone wants to take responsibility for themselves anymore.. blame the other guy and take his loot. Idiotic.

This is my stance. But again, the laws that we have and the rulings help ppl propogate the ludicrous behavior that we have now. I can only get warm coffee because restaurants are afraid to serve hot and maybe get sued.. I order hot coffee because I enjoy drinking hot coffeee.

[Fuzzness 2]

Hmm I must have been misled somewhere. I was always under the impression that it's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids aren't out doing crazy things. I know that's not always easy to do but I didn't know that made the parents less responsible for their children.

So, if someone breaks into my house and slips on the floor and breaks their leg, I am responsible for not having safe floors?

[faith 0]

I'm not advocating the suing the robber that broke into your house. That's not where I am coming from at all.

However, I do feel that property owners shoulder some responsibility for securing their property and keeping it safe. You can not blame a child for climbing a ladder.... that's just being unrealistic. You also can not expect a child to NEVER do anything wrong.

[Fuzzness 2]

I'm not advocating the suing the robber that broke into your house. That's not where I am coming from at all.

However, I do feel that property owners shoulder some responsibility for securing their property and keeping it safe. You can not blame a child for climbing a ladder.... that's just being unrealistic. You also can not expect a child to NEVER do anything wrong.

Why is the child being allowed to climb the ladder? I don't blame the child, when I was a child I liked climbing ladders too. Until I fell off of one

Nothing related to a child climbing a ladder if it's there, but I do find a lot of parents these days don't care about what their child is doing. Their children are allowed to run freely and do whatever they want. Personally, I wouldn't let Anna run around on a boat dock but I see that all the time. If an accident occurs because of parental negligence, why are they allowed to sue?

As for securing your own property, how far does that have to go? Do I have to put up a fence around my property? Put warning signs that if they do break into my house they risk being injured because I have a cat in my house that might appear out of no where and scare them into having a heart attack?

[Mirorgate 0]

I'm not advocating the suing the robber that broke into your house. That's not where I am coming from at all.

However, I do feel that property owners shoulder some responsibility for securing their property and keeping it safe. You can not blame a child for climbing a ladder.... that's just being unrealistic. You also can not expect a child to NEVER do anything wrong.

Hahahahaaaaaa.... I'm not telling my kids ANYTHING that I did growing up.... I'd always be down at the station trying to explain: "You see officer, it's like this..." X300 times

Yes, property owners should shoulder some and buck up and take responsibility for things hanging in their yards/properties... not always easy to spot that broken sliver of glass in the tall grass though.

[faith 0]

I'm not advocating the suing the robber that broke into your house. That's not where I am coming from at all.

However, I do feel that property owners shoulder some responsibility for securing their property and keeping it safe. You can not blame a child for climbing a ladder.... that's just being unrealistic. You also can not expect a child to NEVER do anything wrong.

Why is the child being allowed to climb the ladder? I don't blame the child, when I was a child I liked climbing ladders too. Until I fell off of one

Nothing related to a child climbing a ladder if it's there, but I do find a lot of parents these days don't care about what their child is doing. Their children are allowed to run freely and do whatever they want. Personally, I wouldn't let Anna run around on a boat dock but I see that all the time. If an accident occurs because of parental negligence, why are they allowed to sue?

As for securing your own property, how far does that have to go? Do I have to put up a fence around my property? Put warning signs that if they do break into my house they risk being injured because I have a cat in my house that might appear out of no where and scare them into having a heart attack?

If the child is out playing and sees an unsecured ladder it's kind of DUH! do you think they are going to pass that by? Maybe some kids, but not the daredevils. It goes back to my point that you can't hold your kids hands 24/7. You have to let them out to play and ride bikes at some point.

As far as securing your own property, each city has it's own laws as to how far you need to go.

In the eyes of the law, it's not neglect to allow your 11 year old to go out riding his/her bike without being watched.

I'm not advocating the suing the robber that broke into your house. That's not where I am coming from at all.

However, I do feel that property owners shoulder some responsibility for securing their property and keeping it safe. You can not blame a child for climbing a ladder.... that's just being unrealistic. You also can not expect a child to NEVER do anything wrong.

Hahahahaaaaaa.... I'm not telling my kids ANYTHING that I did growing up.... I'd always be down at the station trying to explain: "You see officer, it's like this..." X300 times

Yes, property owners should shoulder some and buck up and take responsibility for things hanging in their yards/properties... not always easy to spot that broken sliver of glass in the tall grass though.

I've only told my kids "anything you try to do.. I've already done it, and you won't get away with it."

my god, i'm 33 years old and if my dad only knew some of the ####### I did.... he'd probably ground me even now!

[eau_xplain 2]

What if you had a pool (even a kiddie pool that's 2 feet deep) and a kid came into your yard and drowned in your pool? Don't you think as the property owner you are liable for not providing a locking mechanism on your pool or a fence to protect the children?

The signs will not completely absolve you from responsibility, but they will help your case that you were trying to protect the property and the people potentially coming on to it.

However, if you leave a ladder laying against the side of a building with no security (fences, locks, etc) you are liable. It's not passing the buck, it's reality.

I guess in a perfect world kids would NEVER ride their bikes alone. They'd have mom or dad attached at their hip so that they don't get hurt. Sorry, in my reality it doesn't exist like that. If you can HONESTLY say that your kids are never out of your sight and that your kids would NEVER make a bad decision that would cause them harm, then you must be a superhero.

Faith, of course if we had a pool we'd put a fence around it. We wouldn't want any critten (whether 2-legged or more) falling into them. But, if a 2-legged trespasser climbs over that fence and falls into the pool, will I then be held responsible?

I'm not trying to be insensitive to the child who is in a coma and the anguish the parents are suffering but it was the kids' decision (misguided as it was) to climb that ladder. As a parent to two 14 year olds, I know that I cannot (and should not) be with them all the time. They need to learn to take care of themselves and understand that there are consequences to their actions. If something bad happens to them in spite of my efforts to "educate" them about action and consequences then we have to take responsibility for it. In the case of blatant neglect (amusement park ride accident because of poor maintenance), then of course we will hold the proper persons accountable. But in the case presented in the original post, I still don't agree about suing the business owner.

[Fandango 1,439]

holy #######.. you must not have ever had or been around an 11 or 12 year old boy You mean to tell me I should walk around the neighborhood holding my 11 year old son's hand because he is capable of making bad choices? For that matter, how about a 16 year old boy??? There were a couple of 17 year old boys that decided they were going to climb the side of a building on senior skip day last month in st. louis. Should we be holding their hands as well? Kids, boys especially, make bad decisions, face it.

An 11 year old boy is old enough to go out and play without his mommy. But yet an 11 year old boy will still take a look at a ladder and be all "hmm I wanna climb that".

If a child doesn't have the proper mental capacity to make good judgements, then no...he should not be left to wander & get into trouble.

It is not the responsibility of the job site to watch and care for unsupervised children.

Just because a ladder might have been nearby does not mean that the site was unsafe. No one told those boys to climb it. No one made those boys trespass. If there was work being done there...what are the workers supposed to do? Lock up everything when not currently in use just because some child may somehow climb a fence and trespass? Seriously, this is so ridiculous & I am sick to death of parents pushing their own failures onto the rest of society. I have two step-daughters...and guess what? It is OUR - me, their mother's & their father's responsibility as parents (moreso them than me, but you know) to make sure they don't get into trouble. The older one will be 13...and guess what? If she goes anywhere, we're not too far behind her. She's slowly getting the freedom a teen has...but only after she's learned how to handle the responsibility that comes with it.

It doesn't take a frickin village to raise a kid, and tbh...it's not our responsibility.

by your logic, anyone under the age of 30 should not be left to their own devices and should be supervised by mommy and daddy at all times.

Yes, by law they are required to lock up everything while not on the job site.

You can not stop a pre-teen or teenage boy from experimenting with danger. No matter how much you shelter him. I've watched my kids jump dirt bike ramps since they were 4 on their bikes. I've nursed cut legs and knees and elbows from the scooter accidents. My children do not run the neighborhood causing trouble, they run the neighborhood playing with their friends.

ALL kids make bad judgements. Period.

Not at all...at 18 you are responsible for yourself so no, not 30

And sure...you can't watch your kids 24/7...but at the same time...we're talking about breaking onto a job site, climbing a ladder to the roof of a business....that, to me, is a little extreme. We're not talkin about climbin the neighbor's tree. To me, there's a big difference.

I'm also not saying accidents won't happen from time to time...but shifting responsibility is the problem. when I was young, and got into scrapes...ie falling out of a tree....my parents didn't go sue the homeowner of the tree, the grower of the tree, the fertilizer company, the shoes I wore to climb the tree, etc. I was told to not climb the tree again. And I didn't.

As far as the ladder is concerned, we're all speculating as to the access of it. But if someone was working on the roof, then had to go to pee or summat...well, I don't think it's logical to have to remove the ladder & lock it up completely while you take a few minutes break. Nothing would ever get done!

Also, if I had a ladder laying on the ground on the side of my house & some kid jumped the fence, put the ladder up and gotten on my roof...I'm sorry, but that is so not my responsibility. The child is technically in the process of a crime...however small it may be...and I don't think ppl should be allowed to profit while in the midst of breaking the law.