UK Beneficiary criminal record

[EnglishLove 112]

1 minute ago, Limey said:

Formal cautions of the type that go on a criminal record would normally be in writing. If he didn't sign anything then its unlikely that it was a formal caution.

 

To avoid confusion, there is a difference between the caution "you do not have to say anything, but ..." etc (note the one in the UK is now quite different to the US right) and a formal caution for an offense. They are completely different things - its unfortunate that they both use the term caution.

 

So if I'm arrested on suspicion of handling stolen goods, and the police "caution" me by saying "You do not have to say anything, but if you fail to mention when questioned..." etc then that isn't a formal caution, and won't go on my criminal record. However if you admit guilt and accept a caution (usually offered as an alternative to going to trial), then that will form part of your criminal record.

 

Also note that the US immigration process asks about arrests. So in the above case, you'd still need to admit to being arrested on suspicion of handling stolen goods, even if you weren't charged and didn't accept a formal caution.

 

I don't know too much about how the process for waivers works, but I would say

- 4 or 5 offenses is quite a few, and they are relatively serious as some involve violence, and carrying a weapon is also quite serious in England. It may be easier to get a pass for minor drug possession or DUI than for these sorts of crimes.
- much will depend on how long ago these offenses were, obviously if you can show no offending for eg 10 years or more, then a waiver is more likely than if they were only 5 years ago.

Let the forum know how you get on either way, as these types of posts are useful for others in the future.

All of this is so helpful! He said he signed nothing. They just told him I'm giving you a caution for such and such and he said okay rather than being arrested and having to go to court. Even for his once actual charge when he was a juvenile, he had never actually been arrested, just questioned. He said for that last caution, they told him since he admitted to buying it, they're cautioning him. I guess we will have to wait and see and I'll keep everyone updated! I've been trying to get people who have had a record and been interviewed to share their experience but I've only had one person talk about a shoplifting charge. 

[EnglishLove 112]

2 minutes ago, mindthegap said:

And that one showed up on his ACRO and SAR?

No way is that an official caution without signing for it - I unfortunately know from my own experience of accepting one (albeit a couple of decades ago and in hindsight solely due to questionable legal advice, but hey ho..), and it has changed again since in late 2013 to clarify that the consequences MUST be outlined and the offender sign:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

 

 

That's what he said. I asked him what the papers said if he signed it and he asked me what papers? They just informed him they were going caution him for it. 🤷‍♀️

[mindthegap 2,589]

4 minutes ago, Pooley said:

That's what he said. I asked him what the papers said if he signed it and he asked me what papers? They just informed him they were going caution him for it. 🤷‍♀️

And it definitely shows on his record?

 

I edited the incorrect links after you had quoted them. Correct ones:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/708595/cautions-guidance-2015.pdf

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by mindthegap

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, mindthegap said:

And it definitely shows on his record?

 

I edited the incorrect links after you had quoted them. Correct ones:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/708595/cautions-guidance-2015.pdf

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

 

 

 

The only one it shows is the background check for the visa. When he was applying for VWP and passport, we order a criminal background check (we needed it for a new job) and it came back "NONE RECORDED" and same with his crb (I don't know what that is lol) says nothing. When we ordered the police certificate and had to click the box for 'visa' it showed all his cautions. That's why I was so confused. 

[mindthegap 2,589]

CRB stands for criminal records bureau, and a CRB check done within the Uk at a standard disclosure level (ie, for a regular job - not one working with children or vunerable, or requiring security clearance etc) will generally not show cautions, due to the rehabilitation of offenders act. Under this act, you are generally not required to disclose cautions, except, say for examples above, or for certain offences (such as sex offences)

 

However, this act does not apply under US immigration law, hence an ACRO police certificate shows everything. They are totally different things.

Edited January 29, 2019 by mindthegap

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, mindthegap said:

CRB stands for criminal records bureau, and a CRB check done within the Uk at a standard disclosure level (ie, for a regular job - not one working with children or vunerable, or requiring security clearance etc) will generally not show cautions, due to the rehabilitation of offenders act. Under this act, you are generally not required to disclose cautions, except, say for examples above, or for certain offences (such as sex offences)

 

However, this act does not apply under US immigration law, hence an ACRO police certificate shows everything. They are totally different things.

Yes, the ARCO police certificate showed everything. I also order the SAR as well even the the ARCO showed the charge and the disposal. 

[thatguyuknow 147]

50 minutes ago, Pooley said:

Yes, the ARCO police certificate showed everything. I also order the SAR as well even the the ARCO showed the charge and the disposal. 

Good, get the SAR and work from there. You can even get it online and have it emailed to you if you want rather than waiting on the post. 

If it were me I'd also start the process of getting all the court records (extract of conviction) together for the times he appeared in court. Hopefully they have them and they're not destroyed. If they are destroyed (the court records) then he should do an affidavit for the offences and get details from the court confirming why the records have been destroyed . For example in Scotland in terms of Statutory Instrument 1009 no.106 (2.8) the disposal of court records (scotland) regulations 1990 the court are only required to hold the records for a period of 10 years in summary proceedings. I'm sure it'll be the same in England but I dont know what it'll be. 

 

I know a bit about the Scottish court system based on my day job not from an immigration standpoint. 

 

Also if it were me I'd lawyer up, I know it's expensive but it's gotta be worth it for your family. I understand you can't advertise lawyers on here but hopefully an experienced member on here maybe able to point you to a good one. 

[EnglishLove 112]

1 minute ago, thatguyuknow said:

Good, get the SAR and work from there. You can even get it online and have it emailed to you if you want rather than waiting on the post. 

If it were me I'd also start the process of getting all the court records (extract of conviction) together for the times he appeared in court. Hopefully they have them and they're not destroyed. If they are destroyed (the court records) then he should do an affidavit for the offences and get details from the court confirming why the records have been destroyed . For example in Scotland in terms of Statutory Instrument 1009 no.106 (2.8) the disposal of court records (scotland) regulations 1990 the court are only required to hold the records for a period of 10 years in summary proceedings. I'm sure it'll be the same in England but I dont know what it'll be. 

 

I know a bit about the Scottish court system based on my day job not from an immigration standpoint. 

 

Also if it were me I'd lawyer up, I know it's expensive but it's gotta be worth it for your family. I understand you can't advertise lawyers on here but hopefully an experienced member on here maybe able to point you to a good one. 

Yes, I will be getting all court records and also have a consult scheduled with an attorney. Thank you so much!

[james1053 0]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:58 PM, EnglishLove said:

Yes, I will be getting all court records and also have a consult scheduled with an attorney. Thank you so much!

Hey, hope its all worked out for you. whats the update on your case? did you file or get granted a waiver? 

[Crazy Cat 41,649]

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