UK Beneficiary criminal record

[Boiler 45,360]

6 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I don't recognize it either. I can only guess that he answered the ESTA questions and it took several days wait to get an answer? Though with his background, the larger question to me is, how did he answer those ESTA questions, ya know? That's the important thing. How was the ESTA questions involving being arrested answered for instance?

ESTA does not have a background check, well not in the sense that normally means, I am sure they check the usually databases for bad guys but not the stuff that would come up for an immigrant visa.

 

I assumed he used the VWP. And forgot about his past.

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, Lemonslice said:

Might be useful to have him join and provide more details. 

Yes, I will try and have him do that. He could explain it better than I can but I've been handling the whole process as I understand the legal jargon lol. 

[JFH 12,189]

I’m also of the opinion that the bigger issue might be that he travelled on the VWP without being eligible. If they feel he lied on the online form it will cause much bigger issues. If he more concerned about that than the juvenile offenses. 

[EnglishLove 112]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

ESTA does not have a background check, well not in the sense that normally means, I am sure they check the usually databases for bad guys but not the stuff that would come up for an immigrant visa.

 

I assumed he used the VWP. And forgot about his past.

Possibly.. it was a while a ago and he was trying to come here, get his passport and apply for a new job so it was a lot going on at once

[EnglishLove 112]

2 minutes ago, JFH said:

I’m also of the opinion that the bigger issue might be that he travelled on the VWP without being eligible. If they feel he lied on the online form it will cause much bigger issues. If he more concerned about that than the juvenile offenses. 

I will have to see but I just looked at the questioned asked regarding his criminal background and it's no to all of those so I don't think so. I've been googling all day about which crimes classify as CMIT and I don't think his one juvenile charge falls under that. So it's really just that one caution that has me slightly worried. But I guess I will just have to wait and see but the unknown is a killer lol

[yuna628 9,665]

39 minutes ago, Pooley said:

1. Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?
2. Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
3. Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide?
4. Have you ever committed fraud or misrepresented yourself or others to obtain, or assist others to obtain, a visa or entry into the United States?

I believe those were the questions asked which the answer is no to all. He has nothing to do with drugs or terrorist activities or fraud. They still ordered a background and I remember him even getting a call but it was approved and he's has no issues the couple of times he has traveled back and forth. I have a copy of his normal criminal background check that he had to order at the same time for job which says "NONE RECORDED" in the Police records. His CRB check comes back clear as well. The only thing that shows something is the police check for the actual Visa. 

Honestly, if you're using the VWP, you have to fill out an ESTA which is a pre-clearance background check form. But, it's not without its limitations and can be skirted based around the interpretation of the question have you been arrested or convicted of a crime. That's why the embassy itself recommends that those even with cautions, such as your fiancé not use the VWP, as they advise here https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/additional-requirements/ due to the potential risky issue of misrepresenting oneself, which opens more problems.

37 minutes ago, Boiler said:

ESTA does not have a background check, well not in the sense that normally means, I am sure they check the usually databases for bad guys but not the stuff that would come up for an immigrant visa.

 

I assumed he used the VWP. And forgot about his past.

Assumed the same, but answering that question potentially incorrectly would be a problem, right.. even if one forgot..?

[mindthegap 2,589]

37 minutes ago, Pooley said:

1. Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?
2. Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
3. Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide?
4. Have you ever committed fraud or misrepresented yourself or others to obtain, or assist others to obtain, a visa or entry into the United States?

I believe those were the questions asked which the answer is no to all. He has nothing to do with drugs or terrorist activities or fraud. They still ordered a background and I remember him even getting a call but it was approved and he's has no issues the couple of times he has traveled back and forth. I have a copy of his normal criminal background check that he had to order at the same time for job which says "NONE RECORDED" in the Police records. His CRB check comes back clear as well. The only thing that shows something is the police check for the actual Visa. 

 

The questions asked on the ESTA are merely to obtain an ESTA, which is permission to board a carrier to the US and not to enter the US.

Those questions are not the full criminal-related eligibility criteria to enter the US, either as an immigrant or non-immigrant.

 INA 212 (2)

 

Obtaining an ESTA is not the same as being VWP eligible, which based on the information you have provided, he is not.

This may come back and bite. 

 

44 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I assumed he used the VWP. And forgot about his past.

Quite.

 

 

 

[EnglishLove 112]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Honestly, if you're using the VWP, you have to fill out an ESTA which is a pre-clearance background check form. But, it's not without its limitations and can be skirted based around the interpretation of the question have you been arrested or convicted of a crime. That's why the embassy itself recommends that those even with cautions, such as your fiancé not use the VWP, as they advise here https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/additional-requirements/ due to the potential risky issue of misrepresenting oneself, which opens more problems.

Assumed the same, but answering that question potentially incorrectly would be a problem, right.. even if one forgot..?

I remember when he was applying for it and his passport, he ordered a background check for his new job and it said no record. So I think where his crimes were no to all of their questions and then with his clear background, i didn't see a problem. 

[mindthegap 2,589]

5 minutes ago, Pooley said:

I remember when he was applying for it and his passport, he ordered a background check for his new job and it said no record. So I think where his crimes were no to all of their questions and then with his clear background, i didn't see a problem. 

Convictions and cautions are classed as spent in the UK after five years, so would not show on a standard CRB check, nor do they have to be declared.

 

However, under US immigration law, convictions - and by extension, cautions, as they are treated as convictions by the US - are never spent, and must be declared.

An ACRO certificate for immigration purposes is also far more detailed than a UK CRB check - if something is classed as spent in the UK, it will show on the certificate as 'no live trace' so the US would know you have something in your past it even if you failed to declare it.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by mindthegap

[Boiler 45,360]

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Honestly, if you're using the VWP, you have to fill out an ESTA which is a pre-clearance background check form. But, it's not without its limitations and can be skirted based around the interpretation of the question have you been arrested or convicted of a crime. That's why the embassy itself recommends that those even with cautions, such as your fiancé not use the VWP, as they advise here https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/additional-requirements/ due to the potential risky issue of misrepresenting oneself, which opens more problems.

Assumed the same, but answering that question potentially incorrectly would be a problem, right.. even if one forgot..?

They have changed the questions and I do not know which one he answered.

 

All I can say is that there are plenty of people who have forgotten about their past and used the VWP. Vast majority do not subsequently seek to immigrate. Becomes a problem then.

[Boiler 45,360]

2 minutes ago, mindthegap said:

Convictions and cautions are classed as spent in the UK after five years, so would not show on a standard CRB check, nor would they have to be declared.

Under US immigration law, convictions - and by extension, cautions, as they are treated as convictions by the US - are never spent, and must be declared.

An ACRO certificate for immigration purposes is also far more detailed than a UK CRB check.

 

I thought how long before they are spent varied but does not really matter, no Rehabilitation of Offenders law in the US.

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, mindthegap said:

Convictions and cautions are classed as spent in the UK after five years, so would not show on a standard CRB check, nor would they have to be declared.

Under US immigration law, convictions - and by extension, cautions, as they are treated as convictions by the US - are never spent, and must be declared.

An ACRO certificate for immigration purposes is also far more detailed than a UK CRB check.

 

Yes, I understand that. I'm not so much worried about his juvenile ones as much as his two adult cautions. He was only 14 years old for the first two. I would have to go back through everything he sent me but I'm guessing it was just the VWP he applied for and not the ESTA. 

[Boiler 45,360]

Just now, Pooley said:

Yes, I understand that. I'm not so much worried about his juvenile ones as much as his two adult cautions. He was only 14 years old for the first two. I would have to go back through everything he sent me but I'm guessing it was just the VWP he applied for and not the ESTA. 

To use the VWP you need an approved ESTA.

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, Boiler said:

To use the VWP you need an approved ESTA.

Okay, then maybe that was it. It was so long ago and he was applying for that, his passport, and a job all at the same time. Maybe I got them mixed up lol

[mindthegap 2,589]

8 minutes ago, Pooley said:

Yes, I understand that. I'm not so much worried about his juvenile ones as much as his two adult cautions. He was only 14 years old for the first two. I would have to go back through everything he sent me but I'm guessing it was just the VWP he applied for and not the ESTA. 

Unless he entered via a land border, or via pre-clearance from Canada or Mexico, he would have needed an ESTA.

 

Even ignoring the juvenile ones, based on the information you have posted about his adult history, he is not admissable - either under the VWP or as an immigrant, without a waiver of inadmissibility.