UK Beneficiary criminal record

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, Paul & Mary said:

what @John & Rose mentioned is 100% true.  His K1 was denied. K1's are not appealable.  He ended up getting married and started the spousal visa which takes longer time.

 

If time is more important you might want to get married because of the criminal issue.   If the petition comes up for denial it can be reaffirmed by USCIS and sent back to the Consulate. 

 

If you do the K1 it might be outright denied.  It can be denied at the USCIS or the DOS.  If it is denied by DOS you can not seek a waiver.   

 

You don't state how old the adult charges are.   The more seasoned they are the less of an overall impact they can have.

We are already in the K-1 process. If we get denied then I will marry him. His first two cautions for fighting was when he was 14 years old and the one actually charge was when he was 16 years old. It's been almost 5 years since he's had a caution. 10 years since he was actually charged. 

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

I feel like the 2012 common assault caution is what puts a wrinkle in all of this. The juvenile cautions would be easy to overlook, if he'd never been in trouble after that. But having 2 more in the last 5-6 years is going to look like a bad pattern of behavior, regardless of the distinction between "caution" and "conviction". You're in a kind of grey-area when it comes to CIMT. 

 

I think you need to go ahead and realize that due to these issues, your journey to being together may take longer than you'd ever want, and you might have to consider options that are less than ideal, such as:

 

1) Filing for K1, investing 9+ months of time, knowing that it might end in a denial that cannot be waived or appealed;

2) Filing for K1, investing 9+ months of time, knowing that you may have to hire a lawyer and attempt to get a waiver;

3) Getting married, filing for CR-1, investing 12+ months of time, knowing that you may have to appeal/hire a lawyer;

4) Move to the UK, which is obviously not your first choice but will be the best option if any of the above fail.

 

The good news: chances are, even if you have to exhaust ALL of the above options, you will likely end up together in the end (just might be in the UK).

The bad news: you might have to spend a few years apart before ending up together for good, with any of the above. 

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

1 hour ago, Pooley said:

Well most of his cautions was when he's a juvenile for fighting and like I've said earlier, they basically force you saying you either take a caution or go to court. You're caught fighting, it would be a waste of money and time to take to court. But I will consult with more attorney's before anything. I've talked to some people who had criminal records for shoplifting and was approved so who knows.

One charge of shoplifting? They most likely qualified for the petty offense exception. It has to be ONLY ONE offense for that, though.

53 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

The police cert for jobs and for immigration are definitely different.  The lawyer may be a good investment as the CO may see a pattern of aggressive behavior that may be cause for denial.  He will need to present the police certificate at the interview so at the very least he is going to be facing a lot of questions.  A well trained CO may even try to get him upset to see how he reacts.  That is what I would do.  If he has a temper and he looks aggressive to the CO the odds of approval will be very low.  Make sure he knows that going in.

A lawyer can't go with him to his visa interview.

Edited January 28, 2019 by EM_Vandaveer

[Just Paul 4,595]

5 minutes ago, Pooley said:

9 minutes ago, Paul & Mary said:

 

We are already in the K-1 process.

Then it is a little late to be asking this question.

 

Best of luck to you both.

[Ontarkie 14,193]

You keep bringing up US cops giving ppl warning for bar fights or speeding here in the US. You're mixing things up. Are they being warned to knock it off and don't do it again- yes they are, but the cops is letting them off. 

 

Much different then what your fiance. Stop comparing them.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Ontarkie

[EnglishLove 112]

3 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

I feel like the 2012 common assault caution is what puts a wrinkle in all of this. The juvenile cautions would be easy to overlook, if he'd never been in trouble after that. But having 2 more in the last 5-6 years is going to look like a bad pattern of behavior, regardless of the distinction between "caution" and "conviction". You're in a kind of grey-area when it comes to CIMT. 

 

I think you need to go ahead and realize that due to these issues, your journey to being together may take longer than you'd ever want, and you might have to consider options that are less than ideal, such as:

 

1) Filing for K1, investing 9+ months of time, knowing that it might end in a denial that cannot be waived or appealed;

2) Filing for K1, investing 9+ months of time, knowing that you may have to hire a lawyer and attempt to get a waiver;

3) Getting married, filing for CR-1, investing 12+ months of time, knowing that you may have to appeal/hire a lawyer;

4) Move to the UK, which is obviously not your first choice but will be the best option if any of the above fail.

 

The good news: chances are, even if you have to exhaust ALL of the above options, you will likely end up together in the end (just might be in the UK).

The bad news: you might have to spend a few years apart before ending up together for good, with any of the above. 

Yes. I realize that. There was a 5 year time gap of no fighting but unfortunately got into it with his brother. I'm hoping if they will just let him explain they will understand. If we have to marry I will but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. I unfortunately cannot move to the UK since I have two children and I refuse to leave them. 

[Loren Y 2,755]

May want to have him contact a UK attorney. I have a few people I know that have had cautions removed from their record, it can be done, though it may not be cheap. Here is a link with some good information from what I saw, not saying it can help you 100%, but if you can get a few removed it may help you down the line.

 

https://www.richardnelsonllp.co.uk/service/removal-police-cautions/

 

I also remember back in 2017 there was a case where they were trying to get criminal records handled more like in the US where you could get some things expunged. Never followed up on it, but maybe google can point you in the right direction. I think an attorney is definitely in order.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Loren Y

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

1 minute ago, Pooley said:

Yes. I realize that. There was a 5 year time gap of no fighting but unfortunately got into it with his brother. I'm hoping if they will just let him explain they will understand. If we have to marry I will but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. I unfortunately cannot move to the UK since I have two children and I refuse to leave them. 

I think, if the crimes do not fall under CIMT, then you'll have a better shot than people might think. I hope it works out for you both  It's a very intimidating (and at times, disheartening) process, but hang in there.

 

[EnglishLove 112]

3 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

May want to have him contact a UK attorney. I have a few people I know that have had cautions removed from their record, it can be done, though it may not be cheap. Here is a link with some good information from what I saw, not saying it can help you 100%, but if you can get a few removed it may help you down the line.

 

https://www.richardnelsonllp.co.uk/service/removal-police-cautions/

Thank you very much!

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, beloved_dingo said:

I think, if the crimes do not fall under CIMT, then you'll have a better shot than people might think. I hope it works out for you both  It's a very intimidating (and at times, disheartening) process, but hang in there.

 

Thank you! I'm so nervous and I've talked to some people that had a record to shoplifting and such and they said they had no problems. Then I've talked to others that have had less and been denied. From what I've gathered, it all comes down to the officer interviewing him. I'm just not sure if they will actually take the time to listen to let him explain. I think it will help it's been years and only two cautions on his adult, all the rest was when he was 14 and 16 years old. 

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

18 hours ago, Loren Y said:

May want to have him contact a UK attorney. I have a few people I know that have had cautions removed from their record, it can be done, though it may not be cheap. Here is a link with some good information from what I saw, not saying it can help you 100%, but if you can get a few removed it may help you down the line.

 

https://www.richardnelsonllp.co.uk/service/removal-police-cautions/

 

I also remember back in 2017 there was a case where they were trying to get criminal records handled more like in the US where you could get some things expunged. Never followed up on it, but maybe google can point you in the right direction. I think an attorney is definitely in order.

Makes ZERO difference to immigration, the cautions would still have to be declared. Expungement makes absolutely no difference when it comes to immigration.

18 hours ago, Pooley said:

Thank you! I'm so nervous and I've talked to some people that had a record to shoplifting and such and they said they had no problems. Then I've talked to others that have had less and been denied. From what I've gathered, it all comes down to the officer interviewing him. I'm just not sure if they will actually take the time to listen to let him explain. I think it will help it's been years and only two cautions on his adult, all the rest was when he was 14 and 16 years old. 

Again, one shoplifting charge would likely fall under petty offense exception.

Edited January 29, 2019 by EM_Vandaveer

[EnglishLove 112]

23 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

I think, if the crimes do not fall under CIMT, then you'll have a better shot than people might think. I hope it works out for you both  It's a very intimidating (and at times, disheartening) process, but hang in there.

 

I'm having trouble determining if they do or not. It specifically states that simple assault is not and that that being in possession of stolen goods is not as long as they didn't know, which he didn't.  He was able to get a travel visa no problem and has been over here a few times and the last time stayed nearly a month. If they fell under CIMT, wouldn't he be denied entry to the US?

[EandS2019 389]

5 minutes ago, Pooley said:

I'm having trouble determining if they do or not. It specifically states that simple assault is not and that that being in possession of stolen goods is not as long as they didn't know, which he didn't.  He was able to get a travel visa no problem and has been over here a few times and the last time stayed nearly a month. If they fell under CIMT, wouldn't he be denied entry to the US?

Did he travel with an ESTA? If they are found to be CMIT this could be an issue, but hopefully they’re not. I don’t know how thoroughly they background check for ESTA, but I’ve read on this forum about a few people who travelled on ESTA and later found out they shouldn’t have.

[EnglishLove 112]

Just now, Ethan & Shannon said:

Did he travel with an ESTA? If they are found to be CMIT this could be an issue, but hopefully they’re not. I don’t know how thoroughly they background check for ESTA, but I’ve read on this forum about a few people who travelled on ESTA and later found out they shouldn’t have.

Yes he did. They did a little interview, he had to get his passport and he's been over a couple times now with absolutely zero problems. He also had to do a background check for his passport and it was still no issues. 

[jakejon 1,197]

Hey! I know I posted last time on your thread! 

 

As I'm from the UK, I don't know anyone that has a caution personally; perfectly aware though what a caution is. Cautions can almost constitute 'bad character' from an outsider's perspective regardless of age.  Some say if it's in adolescent years it's not frowned upon as much. Cautions are low level offences and one that an individual has to admit to. As you say, it's not technically classed as a 'conviction' per say. From googling, your UK beneficiary may find some helpful info from NACRO. As stringent as London are with ACRO's, I would definitely retain a good lawyer / go down spousal route. That said, I know you've already filed a K1. 

 

I don't think your journey will be easy as others but you have options and great advice as always from people from on VJ. 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by jakejon