N-400 Denied (anyone who intends to file the day they become eligible, read this)

[Dashinka 25,197]

  On 1/24/2019 at 4:18 PM, Mon413 said:

Im nervous now my gc card date is 4/1/2015 

Married to usc for three plus year i sent n 400 form 1/22/18 hope im ok

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I think you are fine.

[Hypnos 6,579]

@punter13 going to PM you if that's OK. 

 

I just got back from a productive meeting at Congressman Mike Conaway's office and spoke to his very nice staff member. 

 

Not going to use the word optimistic, but I feel better now than I did 24h ago. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Hypnos

[geowrian 22,338]

Hmm...maybe the online filing does use a very conservative interpretation for the time zone? When you submit the application is only an instance in time...it would have been the 3rd in some areas of the US and 2nd in others.

Don't get me started with timezone issues with software, especially with human-based processes. I do a lot of stuff like that with USPS and it's absolutely crazy the complexity for something as simple as "do x at y:00 every day". Just within the US is crazy, but the filing is open to the entire world (no reason you can't file while visiting Asia or similar).

 

I do think they should set some reasonable rules and make those rules clear to applicants (i.e. use the time zone of the location of residence?).

[Mon413 3]

  On 1/24/2019 at 6:36 PM, Bill & Katya said:

I think you are fine.

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Thank you

[Life_love 45]

  On 1/24/2019 at 6:33 PM, Bill & Katya said:

Not necessarily.  With anything online related to submissions or orders, the software has to change the day based on something.  In this case it appears that the day does not change until either Alaska and Hawaii enter the new day, or the midnight hour has passed Anywhere on Earth (typically identified as Howland Island).  This might be a reason not to file online.

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I think you might have a point here. Time zone seems  to play a huge part in this. If anyone still has a copy of the email from ELISdontnotreply@uscis.dhs.gov (that shows the payment transaction date and co) compare the date received via email and the transaction date. I submitted the day i became eligible by 2:22PM (EST) according to the email i received but the transaction date shows 10:22:13AM... which is 4 hours behind EST(my time). The only place i know EST time is 4 hours ahead is Alaska. IF this is infact true..there is no explicit mention of this on the USCIS site so @Hypnos can indeed make a case for this.

[Dashinka 25,197]

  On 1/24/2019 at 6:44 PM, geowrian said:

Hmm...maybe the online filing does use a very conservative interpretation for the time zone? When you submit the application is only an instance in time...it would have been the 3rd in some areas of the US and 2nd in others.

Don't get me started with timezone issues with software, especially with human-based processes. I do a lot of stuff like that with USPS and it's absolutely crazy the complexity for something as simple as "do x at y:00 every day". Just within the US is crazy, but the filing is open to the entire world (no reason you can't file while visiting Asia or similar).

 

I do think they should set some reasonable rules and make those rules clear to applicants (i.e. use the time zone of the location of residence?).

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I agree, the ELIS system should clearly state when the day changes relative to the PD when filing.  In our case we filed almost three weeks after the window opened so no issue, but so far there are two examples of folks that ran into this issue.  The big question in my mind is the difference in how the offices handled these two examples.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Best practice going forward is to advise people to wait a few days after they qualify to file.  Whether it's naturalization or ROC.  There is no harm in waiting a few days.  As we have seen numerous time, a day early is detrimental.  

[ThomasNC1988 762]

  On 1/24/2019 at 7:11 PM, Bill & Katya said:

I agree, the ELIS system should clearly state when the day changes relative to the PD when filing.  In our case we filed almost three weeks after the window opened so no issue, but so far there are two examples of folks that ran into this issue.  The big question in my mind is the difference in how the offices handled these two examples.

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That is a fair assessment, but honestly just don't stay up late at night so you can file at the first possible instance. You are injecting risk for no reason other than I guess you are excited. It is applying for an immigration benefit not ordering the new iPhone. N400s won't be sold out in the morning.

Edited January 24, 2019 by ThomasNC1988

[yuna628 9,777]

Hypnos... I am so sorry to hear this!  I sincerely hope that your efforts pay off, and that this will be reversed.

[gc@gc 184]

an immigration attorney once told me, many many years ago,  she had a 7-days rule: wait 7 days after her clients were eligible to file a form, and at least 7 days before the deadline. 

 

she said:  those at irs didnt learn how to count days 😀

[Kowatti 189]

  On 1/24/2019 at 3:55 AM, Hypnos said:

So I became an LPR on 3rd April, 2013. This meant that according to USCIS' filing calculator I became eligible to file an N-400 on 3rd January, 2018 (plus five years minus 90 days). I filed my N-400 online through ELIS at 2:30am, staying up late because I was excited to finally begin this final chapter in my immigration journey.

 

I hit an early roadblock when the receipt NoA for some reason assigned me an N-400 priority date of the previous day, 2nd January. The "application received on" date was correct since it said 3rd January. I posted about it here more than once, and the consensus seemed to be that USCIS would honour the "received" date, not the "priority" date.

 

It took a year of waiting (thanks, Dallas backlog) but I eventually got my naturalisation interview scheduled for 14th January of this year. I dutifully attended, answered all questions and passed all the tests, but was told a decision could not be made. Well the decision was made tonight, and a denial notice popped up in my online USCIS account. The reason? I applied too early. The notice stated that I applied on 2nd January, 2018, and was only eligible to file on 3rd January, 2018. Again, this wasn't mentioned at the interview, and I brought all my emailed ELIS receipts and other documents showing I filed on 3rd January in case they ever brought it up, but they didn't.

 

So it's been a fun night. After a brief period of shouting, loudly, I began to move into attack mode.

 

What I have done so far:

 

1) Emailed the CIS Ombudsman giving them the entire story, receipts with timestamps showing I applied on the correct date, and all that jazz. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the Ombudsman is closed right now as part of the partial federal government shutdown, so I'm not really expecting much out of this immediately.

 

2) I'm going to my Congressman's local office tomorrow to give them the story and all the same documents and seeing if they can intercede with USCIS on my behalf.

 

3) Emailed my old lawyer and another lawyer that helped me back in 2013 to see if they can offer suggestions. Not trying to freeload on them; I offered to pay whatever fee they deem reasonable on this, since it's obviously no longer in DIY territory.

 

4) I'll be contacting the two biggest local newspapers, the Dallas Morning News and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, to see if they're interested in doing a story on this. I figure the more attention I can get on it the more likely I am to get something done.

 

I also have the option of either filing a fresh application, together with its $725 fee and one year wait time, or an N-336 formal appeal of their decision. Fun fact on the N-336: it costs $700 to file, and you will often wait almost as long as it costs to process a new N-400, so they kinda get you coming and going on that one. I'm not ruling anything out yet, but for now I'm hanging my hat on something from 1-4 getting me somewhere on this.

 

So at the end of the day, anyone intending to file for naturalisation on the day they become eligible: DON'T DO IT. Wait a couple of days, then submit. You will avoid all this bullshit, and can instead deal with some other USCIS bullshit that will be unrelated to this.

 

Now it's time to write some letters to newspapers and see if I can get anywhere. I will post replies here as to what happens, if anything meaningful does.

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So sorry you are going through all this.  You have earned the right to finally apply & become a citizen.  Back a few years ago when I became a citizen,  I don't think they were as picky.  Things have changed since then & more difficult.  Do what is right & don't give up.  Best wishes to you.

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

  On 1/24/2019 at 6:42 PM, Hypnos said:

@punter13 going to PM you if that's OK. 

 

I just got back from a productive meeting at Congressman Mike Conaway's office and spoke to his very nice staff member. 

 

Not going to use the word optimistic, but I feel better now than I did 24h ago. 

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I hope that ends up being productive for you. You have a very valid case.

 

My husband is also an April 2013 GC holder, but we waited to file until March, and we are still waiting.  It isn't just Dallas that is slow, it seems.

[Georgia16 2,858]

If it showed up in the interviews system as you filed a day early you would think they would have denied your application and send it back to you with a you submitted to early. Yet they send you a we accept your application. They are kind of contradicting themselves by doing so.

 

Hope you get this figured out soon! 

[mindthegap 2,611]

I would be going down there with an infopass and asking for a supervisor personally, but I hope you get it sorted quickly so you can be done with USCIS for good.

 

 

I originally intended to do exactly the same and submit at 3am, but I had a suspicion that this sort of system SNAFU was possible....so I deliberately waited an extra 2 days to submit mine.

[ineedadisplayname 512]

  On 1/24/2019 at 3:55 AM, Hypnos said:

So I became an LPR on 3rd April, 2013. This meant that according to USCIS' filing calculator I became eligible to file an N-400 on 3rd January, 2018 (plus five years minus 90 days). I filed my N-400 online through ELIS at 2:30am, staying up late because I was excited to finally begin this final chapter in my immigration journey.

 

I hit an early roadblock when the receipt NoA for some reason assigned me an N-400 priority date of the previous day, 2nd January. The "application received on" date was correct since it said 3rd January. I posted about it here more than once, and the consensus seemed to be that USCIS would honour the "received" date, not the "priority" date.

 

It took a year of waiting (thanks, Dallas backlog) but I eventually got my naturalisation interview scheduled for 14th January of this year. I dutifully attended, answered all questions and passed all the tests, but was told a decision could not be made. Well the decision was made tonight, and a denial notice popped up in my online USCIS account. The reason? I applied too early. The notice stated that I applied on 2nd January, 2018, and was only eligible to file on 3rd January, 2018. Again, this wasn't mentioned at the interview, and I brought all my emailed ELIS receipts and other documents showing I filed on 3rd January in case they ever brought it up, but they didn't.

 

So it's been a fun night. After a brief period of shouting, loudly, I began to move into attack mode.

 

What I have done so far:

 

1) Emailed the CIS Ombudsman giving them the entire story, receipts with timestamps showing I applied on the correct date, and all that jazz. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the Ombudsman is closed right now as part of the partial federal government shutdown, so I'm not really expecting much out of this immediately.

 

2) I'm going to my Congressman's local office tomorrow to give them the story and all the same documents and seeing if they can intercede with USCIS on my behalf.

 

3) Emailed my old lawyer and another lawyer that helped me back in 2013 to see if they can offer suggestions. Not trying to freeload on them; I offered to pay whatever fee they deem reasonable on this, since it's obviously no longer in DIY territory.

 

4) I'll be contacting the two biggest local newspapers, the Dallas Morning News and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, to see if they're interested in doing a story on this. I figure the more attention I can get on it the more likely I am to get something done.

 

I also have the option of either filing a fresh application, together with its $725 fee and one year wait time, or an N-336 formal appeal of their decision. Fun fact on the N-336: it costs $700 to file, and you will often wait almost as long as it costs to process a new N-400, so they kinda get you coming and going on that one. I'm not ruling anything out yet, but for now I'm hanging my hat on something from 1-4 getting me somewhere on this.

 

So at the end of the day, anyone intending to file for naturalisation on the day they become eligible: DON'T DO IT. Wait a couple of days, then submit. You will avoid all this bullshit, and can instead deal with some other USCIS bullshit that will be unrelated to this.

 

Now it's time to write some letters to newspapers and see if I can get anywhere. I will post replies here as to what happens, if anything meaningful does.

Expand  

Most like it was the time difference.... It was 3rd of Jan in your timezone (very early 2 AM), but who knows where they keep the servers..... Coast to coast the time difference is 3 hours so it might have been that it got logged on the 2nd before midnight....

 

Hope they can sort it out for you.