Retention of green card when taking job abroad

[pyridine 12]

40 minutes ago, carmel34 said:

Tough situation that you face,  I feel for you OP and sincerely hope that it works out for both of you in time.  He's only at the early stages of interviewing for a job in the UK--no job offer yet so no decision needs to be made as he may not get the job.  Have you discussed relocating to a larger city/metro area in the US that would offer more opportunities for work for both of you?  If you are both looking for university/college faculty jobs, more and more search committees and department chairs and deans (my current role) are okay with and even encourage married couples to apply for two positions at the same university.  Or if one of you can find a job in a big city with lots of universities like Boston, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, or San Francisco, you can move there together and then the other will be more likely to find something, at least adjunct (part-time) teaching, or even a post-doc position.  It depends on how much you want to stay together vs the green card issue.  I totally understand the challenge of finding a job in a niche area--if it is a university faculty position he's looking for, it is truly a world-wide market and positions can be competitive and hard to find.  If your field is one in which jobs are more plentiful than in his area, maybe it makes sense to go where he can find a job, then you look for something in that city or region.  I recently hired a new faculty member who had been working in New York and her husband is here in the San Francisco area.  They had been living apart for more than a year and then she finally found a job here so they will be together in August when she moves here.  You knew about his niche area before you got married, so the challenges of him finding a suitable position should be something you understand and can empathize with.  Thankfully you have been together for most of your relationship so far, unlike many of us who have had months or years of separation while waiting for the long immigration process for our spouses to end.  This is a tricky situation, as it is for many dual-career couples, and I wish you all the best!

We are actually in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought this would not be a problem here...that if there is anywhere we could both have careers, it'd be here.  But this may have been a misjudgment, since he's not a 25 year old software engineer. It's a mecca for me in biotech. Most jobs that he's even slightly qualified for in industry are down in Silicon Valley, which is fine...but I could name off the list of every company there where he has either been rejected from the most relevant group, or repeatedly gets no recruiter call despite the ads being put up over and over again. He's probably being hurt by his lack of software engineering skills (he's technically got a physics PhD, can't say his topic or it'd identify us for sure if this story already hasn't). There's a couple (too prestigious) universities here that have groups working in precisely his areas, for which he's applied to every postdoc that comes up tried contacting the professors, but they're slightly out of his network and it's been absolute total zero. He's had a much better response rate from industry but I fear he's still a bit too academic...we're both pretty old and he's now fearing age discrimination as well. He had a life before going back to finish his studies and comes from a poor family and does not want to give up what he worked for. 

 

I know many people with difficult situations with this. We frankly should have stayed in Denmark but that ship has long ago sunk. We took a risk and it hasn't worked out so far. Thanks for the kind words of understanding!

[millefleur 5,046]

22 minutes ago, pyridine said:

Oh trust me I know...if I hadn't already exhausted this with him to death I wouldn't be asking here about this. It's apparently more important to him than I understood that he work in exactly this thing. He's had interviews for tangential industry roles where he at least has some core qualifications and after a few interviews with those (2 big on-site ones) that resulted in rejections, he feels he's exhausted these too and stands no chance. I search for jobs for him daily and have to admit we're kinda running out of companies. He's unwilling to go back to really basic stuff.

It honestly sounds like he's more interested in a career than in being in the US. Who can blame the guy when he's dedicated so much of his life to his work?

 

Being overqualified for jobs here (i.e. if you have a PhD) is a thing. It's possible even if he applied for other jobs he would just be immediately not the person to be picked because people would be scared of his credentials. Even people "not fitting in to the company culture" is a big thing here now, regardless of qualifications. It's frustrating, so I totally get where your husband is coming from.

 

I agree with what @Boiler said: you can try to carry along with this back and forth plan similar to the one you described, but the reality is that USCIS could pull the plug on it at any moment. It's risky but you can try.

[pyridine 12]

1 minute ago, millefleur said:

It honestly sounds like he's more interested in a career than in being in the US. Who can blame the guy when he's dedicated so much of his life to his work?

 

Being overqualified for jobs here (i.e. if you have a PhD) is a thing. It's possible even if he applied for other jobs he would just be immediately not the person to be picked because people would be scared of his credentials. Even people "not fitting in to the company culture" is a big thing here now, regardless of qualifications. It's frustrating, so I totally get where your husband is coming from.

 

I agree with what @Boiler said: you can try to carry along with this back and forth plan similar to the one you described, but the reality is that USCIS could pull the plug on it at any moment. It's risky but you can try.

As a PhD myself, yes overqualification (while at the same time being underqualified will more industry-ready skills) is exactly the problem here. We have a bit of a tug of war between us. I finished my PhD 6 years before him and I've been in more senior roles for a while, so this has been tough. 

 

And I'm not sure I'm the type of person who could live in fear of the plug being pulled with his LPR status at any moment. Still lots of thinking to do. I've been pushing at LEAST staying in the US to avoid these immigration issues. But he hasn't been staging the application process anymore. There's a remote chance he could negotiate this position to be based in Colorado but not holding my breath. Almost equally sucky from a family perspective anyway...

[Nitas_man 3,100]

2 hours ago, aaron2020 said:

Sorry that you are in this situation.

Here's the problem with having a niche Ph.D.  There are only so many places where he can find work.   He will need to choose between the work he wants and the green card.   

 

4 hours ago, pyridine said:

I'm an American citizen and my husband is from Hungary. We were living together in Denmark for over 5 years and came to the US about a year ago since I had a job offer with relocation. We went through the laborious and expensive process of getting him the CR-1 visa (used direct consular filing with exceptional circumstances, so filing the I-130 was very fast) and he is a conditional green card holder now in the US.

 

We both have PhDs and he has had a lot of trouble finding a job in our area. While there are probably other issues here with his ability to expand his job search to areas outside of his niche field successfully, and the job search was interrupted by having a baby, we've been here for 10 months and he still has nothing. He is depressed and has practically given up on finding a job here and has started applying to things worldwide in his niche area - these jobs are few and far between and scattered on distant parts of the globe.

 

He is now in the early stages of interviewing for a position in Glasgow, Scotland. I'm not keen on following him (and frankly think this entire situation is terrible...I worked my ### off to get him over here) and I've barely been in my position for a year. But feel I may have to at some point, but these are all things to work out. My question is how likely it is to retain is LPR status?

He can for 2-3 years, after that eventually they will pull him aside on an entry and send him to immigration court.  As soon as they hear he left to work and live outside the US he has an elevated chance of losing and being deported

 

Should he apply for a reentry permit before he leaves?

Definitely.  It buys 2+years of worry free absence

Is establishing residency in the UK disqualifying for LPR if anyone finds out?

No.  My wife had residency when I was working overseas.  Nobody cared.  As soon as he doesnt declare his income on taxes though he starts a ticking clock.

 

He obviously will need to establish residency there to have health care etc. But can he maintain dual residency in the US?

Yes, until his travel document expires.  By then he needs to either have renewed it or be spending a lot of time in the US

There are two scenarios:

1. I stay in the US with our daughter and he works abroad until he (hopefully) finds a position in the US again. In this case he will still be on our apartment lease, car title, will be maintaining his drivers license, everything.

He needs to maintain those things anyway.  

2. We follow him abroad, in which case most things in the US establishing ties will have to disappear (would a reentry permit still work for this case? I know this would make it easier to redo getting a CR-1 visa since we could do DCF again, but the cost of all the application fees and medical exam is far from negligible).

You need to maintain ties.  You need a physical address, a vehicle, insurance policy, current drivers licenses, the works - no matter what you do.

 

Thanks for any guidance!

 

 

 

Answers above.

 

We did this for awhile on my wife’s green card.  She still has it. After the travel document expired and we were out an additional 1 1/2 years she had to get a returning resident visa.  Your worst case is that you would have to re-file a new I130, but starting with a travel document that’s 3 years down the road (minimum).  We managed 4 1/2 years, the ruling at the consulate when we applied to return was that she had not abandoned residency.  You MUST maintain ties to the US to do that.  Can’t stress enough how important they was.  

 

[pyridine 12]

10 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

 

 

Answers above.

 

We did this for awhile on my wife’s green card.  She still has it. After the travel document expired and we were out an additional 1 1/2 years she had to get a returning resident visa.  Your worst case is that you would have to re-file a new I130, but starting with a travel document that’s 3 years down the road (minimum).  We managed 4 1/2 years, the ruling at the consulate when we applied to return was that she had not abandoned residency.  You MUST maintain ties to the US to do that.  Can’t stress enough how important they was.  

 

Someone who has been in the trenches! Could you elaborate on how you maintained ties exactly? Was she ever questioned at border control? So you went until the green card physically expired? My husband only has a conditional one from the CR-1, we would have had to remove conditions on it next year...maybe complicates this more? I see that CRs can get the returning resident visa as well. Hmm how was your wife able to justify it? I feel like taking elective employment abroad wouldn't be a great case for that.

Edited January 18, 2019 by pyridine

[CEE53147 559]

4 hours ago, aaron2020 said:

Sorry that you are in this situation.

Here's the problem with having a niche Ph.D.  There are only so many places where he can find work.   He will need to choose between the work he wants and the green card.   

 

 

There are not as many jobs for PhDs as people are led to believe; many people have to evolve with the workforce needs.  I know of a number of instances where the number of applicants for a single position at a lesser known university exceeded 100 and several times over 150.   Not having any US degree is also a problem for a US university job.  He surely could have gotten an adjunct position at your local community college or was he looking for a prestigious  position in industry or academia.

 

The number of unemployed  PhDs in physics is greater than in many other fields.  There is even a new report several years ago about the issue.

Edited January 18, 2019 by CEE53147

[milimelo 4,477]

Any re-entry permit received will match the expiration date of his green card - it certainly won’t be for two years. 

[JC&BS 75]

Has he considered writing a book? He is in a special field...is there a market for those wanting to learn more about his field of expertise?

 

[Nitas_man 3,100]

5 hours ago, pyridine said:

Someone who has been in the trenches! Could you elaborate on how you maintained ties exactly? Was she ever questioned at border control? So you went until the green card physically expired? My husband only has a conditional one from the CR-1, we would have had to remove conditions on it next year...maybe complicates this more? I see that CRs can get the returning resident visa as well. Hmm how was your wife able to justify it? I feel like taking elective employment abroad wouldn't be a great case for that.

Conditional?  Lol thats a pain.

We left in 2009, with a year and a half left on that one.  Stayed out 11 months, got chewed out by the officer when we came back in but he said go through.  Left 3 weeks later, filed to remove conditions, returned after 5 months to take biometrics to remove conditions, no problem at re-entry.  By then we had the extension letter. We left after biometrics, then got another letter saying the fingerprints were rejected.  We couldnt go back to retake them, so we filed the form and turned in the green card at the consulate.

A year later, I filed another I130 at the consulate, they processed it DCF, we got an IR1, went home, she got a 10 yr green card.

We lived in the US over 2 years.

We left again in 2014 with a travel document.  Didn’t come back until 2015, no issues after more than a year out.  We left 4-5 weeks later, the travel document expired 2016, but we just stayed out until we wanted to come home for good last year.

I was going to file another I130 but we applied and got interviewed for SB1 returning resident visa.  They ruled she / we maintained ties and granted her one, so we re-entered on that, left 3 weeks later to wrap things up over there, arranged our move etc, and came back in for good 3 months later.

We banked in the US, we had 2 registered/insured cars there, kept credit cards, health insurance, cell phones, US landline, retirement, kept taxes up to date, drivers licenses up to date, and basically did all of our business from US accounts.  

Note:  She was never allowed to work as my sponsored dependent and that might have been a factor.  She was accompanying me and I was the one working.  

So its a pain but you have to be prepared at anytime to re-file and start over if you have to.  As long as that’s acceptable then it doesn’t matter.

[HonoraryCitizen 179]

I think under the circumstances you should be ready and willing to play the reentry permit game as long as you can legally get away with it, but then what is the end game?

 

What you should look at seriously however is that it is unlikely he ever gets a position he wants in the USA because you admit he has stopped looking. You can’t win if you don’t play, and not only has he stopped playing, but with every passing day the odds get slimmer.

 

Quote

He is depressed and has practically given up on finding a job here and has started applying to things worldwide in his niche area

 

I think you both need to address the tough long term question now, it’s not going to get better. It’s either you’re together in the USA, together abroad, or apart and trying to successfully navigate a long distance marriage.

 

I wish you both a successful resolution.

Edited January 18, 2019 by HonoraryCitizen

[Love To Teach 161]

44 minutes ago, HonoraryCitizen said:

I think under the circumstances you should be ready and willing to play the reentry permit game as long as you can legally get away with it, but then what is the end game?

 

What you should look at seriously however is that it is unlikely he ever gets a position he wants in the USA because you admit he has stopped looking. You can’t win if you don’t play, and not only has he stopped playing, but with every passing day the odds get slimmer.

 

 

I think you both need to address the tough long term question now, it’s not going to get better. It’s either you’re together in the USA, together abroad, or apart and trying to successfully navigate a long distance marriage.

 

I wish you both a successful resolution.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Love To Teach
I want to take this off because I don't trust that embassy if they see what I wrote.

[SeabreezeUF 31]

I completely understand your struggle, being a PhD who went into industry for similar reasons.  The reality is that there are for more PhDs than academic positions and he will need a strong post-doc to help open doors into academic positions.  Since he's willing to move abroad, which would realistically need to be for about 5 years to give an academic position a chance, maybe he can find a US post-doc? Still a separation physically but much easier logistically, helps with the academic career, and is still in his niche.

 

I've been involved in candidate interviews for my company and have had to turn down candidates who may or may not be like your husband. I know this will result in eye rolls but I strongly suggest reaching out to a career coach. You'd be amazed at what they can do to help the interview stage. I've had many PhDs come through to interviews and shoot themselves in the foot but probably don't have a clue without external perspective. The coaches have helped a lot of PhDs I know so it's an avenue to explore at least!

 

He can also work on growing his network by exploring events on MeetUp and campus hosted public events, as well as shelling out the money to attend big conferences in his area. These were a lifesaver for us during our first year and getting connected to people in my husband's field. With enough network connections, he may be able to work as an independent consultant but he needs to put in the ground work to get there.

 

I think you may have your answer regarding the LPR status but I would just view it as worst case scenario: refiling, which can be done via DCF as long as you are also living in the UK. It would probably be easier if you could wait until after removing conditions and I agree that there are tough, long term questions you two need to sort out. The above is just some advice to maybe help get you guys past the terrible first year (it's bad for most of us!).

 

Best of luck!

[Michael2017 368]

REENTRY PERMIT BEFORE YOU LEAVE

[C90 376]

15 hours ago, pyridine said:

I'm an American citizen and my husband is from Hungary. We were living together in Denmark for over 5 years and came to the US about a year ago since I had a job offer with relocation. We went through the laborious and expensive process of getting him the CR-1 visa (used direct consular filing with exceptional circumstances, so filing the I-130 was very fast) and he is a conditional green card holder now in the US.

 

We both have PhDs and he has had a lot of trouble finding a job in our area. While there are probably other issues here with his ability to expand his job search to areas outside of his niche field successfully, and the job search was interrupted by having a baby, we've been here for 10 months and he still has nothing. He is depressed and has practically given up on finding a job here and has started applying to things worldwide in his niche area - these jobs are few and far between and scattered on distant parts of the globe.

 

He is now in the early stages of interviewing for a position in Glasgow, Scotland. I'm not keen on following him (and frankly think this entire situation is terrible...I worked my ### off to get him over here) and I've barely been in my position for a year. But feel I may have to at some point, but these are all things to work out. My question is how likely it is to retain is LPR status? Should he apply for a reentry permit before he leaves? Is establishing residency in the UK disqualifying for LPR if anyone finds out? He obviously will need to establish residency there to have health care etc. But can he maintain dual residency in the US?

 

There are two scenarios:

1. I stay in the US with our daughter and he works abroad until he (hopefully) finds a position in the US again. In this case he will still be on our apartment lease, car title, will be maintaining his drivers license, everything.

2. We follow him abroad, in which case most things in the US establishing ties will have to disappear (would a reentry permit still work for this case? I know this would make it easier to redo getting a CR-1 visa since we could do DCF again, but the cost of all the application fees and medical exam is far from negligible).

 

Thanks for any guidance!

 

 

You can stay out of the US for max 1 year with a Greencard. BUT once you're going to file for ROC they'll going to ask all the previous addresses in the last 5 years and I think also your jobs (not sure of that one tho). If they see that he lived abroad while having a conditional Greencard and had a job abroad, there is a very, very little chance the officer will grant ROC. ROC is ment for people that want to have a life in the US, not people that want 'easy acces' through a Greencard. So if he is already ready to give up his Greencard he can move, if he wants to keep it then he shouldn't take a job outside the US. Like other people said, he should start with a job that's a little under his 'level' to build up a resume here in the US so that he can get a better job later on.

 

Re-applying for a CR-1 will raise A LOT of questions. Why did he basically abandon his Greencard? Why did he move away so quick? Is he really going to stay in the US the second time while the chances are still there that he wouldn't find his dream job. I'm not saying it's impossible, in the end its up to the officer, but it won't be as easy as the first time.

 

Good luck!

[*Snowdrop* 604]

I think you have a personal/relationship quandry to solve not an immigration one. 

 

1. Will taking a job outside of the USA - the one in Scotland potentially or somewhere else if he doesn't get this one - help him to gain a decent position in the USA in an area that suits you too within the next 2-3 years? 

 

If yes, then get a reentry permit asap and stay on top of immigration timelines to make sure he doesn't lose his greencard. (You and your child can then stay in the USA and visit or move over and be with him during the time outside the USA depending on your personal preferences)

 

If no - and there is not a good chance that he will be able to use the job abroad to easily get a good and suitable job in the USA within 2-3 years - the immigration issue is secondary to the decisions you have to make as a family unit.

 

If your husband is only going to be happy working in a specific job within his field and he can't get that job in the USA now then as a family you can stay together and look at spending the next 3+ years outside the USA until he does get a job in the USA or retires or changes career. Or you have to work out an arrangement where the two of you live and co-parent across two different countries. 

 

Yes, you can try to 'fool' the system and do the return every six months to pretend he is still living in the USA - lots of people do try this but I imagine it's stressful and there's a good chance of being caught. Also what's the point if there's little likelihood of him getting the job he wants there.