False claims made by the media about immigration

[GaryC 7]

Thank you, Gary. Then we both can agree that being here illegally doesn't equate them as lawless individuals or any other negative connotation that implies they lack moral character.

Here's some points I want to make:

There have been claims made that the illegal immigrants...

Bring more diseases

Rape and murder people (see Addie Goodvibrator's posts)

Disregard the laws/thumb their noses at our laws (what you've said)

This one I have to quote from one of Addie's posts because it's a whopper...

"ILLEGAL ALIENS knowingly break the law, create more poverty, more crime, murder, rape and steal, in addition to that they live in Clown houses multi families in one roof in violation of health 7 Building habitability codes turning anywhere they occupy into a 3rd world environment, they carry no auto, Health or any other kind of liability self sufficient insurance yet they like to steal and take from a system they are not derserving nor contribuitng to."

These are nothing but generalizations and stereotypes that play on xenophobia and in the case of Addie's outrageous statement above, demonstrate a form of prejudice to say the least.

This is what I've been eluding to in the previous threads... the debate over immigration keeps getting framed the same way with these inferences and generalization about the character of illegal aliens. In this country and in light of the principals and ideals of this country, I find that disturbing, especially when those who are overtly being prejudice (such as Addie), no one is calling them on it. Gary, I know you have a good character. We may disagree but I know you are always sincere in your convictions. I hope you can at least respect my argument here. That is all.

You have to understand my side then. You can point out all these "false" reports about illegals all day long, it makes no difference to me at all. The manner in which these people are conducting themselves (coming here illegally, marching for their "rights" and accusing us of being unfair) brings this sort of prejudice on themselves. That is human nature, it isn't going to change and it isn't a reason to give them a break. If they want the prejudice to stop then they need to leave and do things the right way. Then I would be on your side when it comes to the "false" claims and support a fair approach to their plight.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Thank you, Gary. Then we both can agree that being here illegally doesn't equate them as lawless individuals or any other negative connotation that implies they lack moral character.

Here's some points I want to make:

There have been claims made that the illegal immigrants...

Bring more diseases

Rape and murder people (see Addie Goodvibrator's posts)

Disregard the laws/thumb their noses at our laws (what you've said)

This one I have to quote from one of Addie's posts because it's a whopper...

"ILLEGAL ALIENS knowingly break the law, create more poverty, more crime, murder, rape and steal, in addition to that they live in Clown houses multi families in one roof in violation of health 7 Building habitability codes turning anywhere they occupy into a 3rd world environment, they carry no auto, Health or any other kind of liability self sufficient insurance yet they like to steal and take from a system they are not derserving nor contribuitng to."

These are nothing but generalizations and stereotypes that play on xenophobia and in the case of Addie's outrageous statement above, demonstrate a form of prejudice to say the least.

This is what I've been eluding to in the previous threads... the debate over immigration keeps getting framed the same way with these inferences and generalization about the character of illegal aliens. In this country and in light of the principals and ideals of this country, I find that disturbing, especially when those who are overtly being prejudice (such as Addie), no one is calling them on it. Gary, I know you have a good character. We may disagree but I know you are always sincere in your convictions. I hope you can at least respect my argument here. That is all.

You have to understand my side then. You can point out all these "false" reports about illegals all day long, it makes no difference to me at all. The manner in which these people are conducting themselves (coming here illegally, marching for their "rights" and accusing us of being unfair) brings this sort of prejudice on themselves. That is human nature, it isn't going to change and it isn't a reason to give them a break. If they want the prejudice to stop then they need to leave and do things the right way. Then I would be on your side when it comes to the "false" claims and support a fair approach to their plight.

I agree that it isn't a reason to give them or anyone a break. I just want the discussion over immigration to be about substance and not generalizations.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

We need more amoral people to make the discussion more interesting

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

The list goes on and on. Illegal entry is only the first violation.

Not to mention the 1st violation is also what enables the other crimes. Catalyst like a cancer; if allowed to go untreated will grow, become worse and Spread destroying everything and becoming that much harder to eradicate.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

I agree that it isn't a reason to give them or anyone a break. I just want the discussion over immigration to be about substance and not generalizations.

Again you are jaded, it is Not a matter of prejudice , nor is it about Immigration, IT IS ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION,

It is about enforcing laws and it is about securing the safety and future for Our Children.

This is NOT a discussion about Immigration, it is about ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO shoul;d not be classified in the same group as immigrants.

As I Said before My feeling apply not only to those who are from South America, We should also Round up all the Swedes, irish, and other peoples who Illegally enter, Steal ID's , defraud Schools, IRS, And other Govt. agencies.

[GaryC 7]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

Sorry, I don't think I am wrong here. Our laws are not to be broken just because you don't agree with them. We are a nation of laws. If you don't like a law then the responable and moral thing to do is to elect someone that reflects your views and who will change the law.

I think the drug laws are wrong. Does it make me immoral because I choose to obey them? I think the laws regarding the IRS and taxation are wrong. Does that make me immoral because I still obey those laws? No it does not. But I do support candidates that reflect my views and out of that maybe those laws will be changed. That is the moral way to do things.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

Sorry, I don't think I am wrong here. Our laws are not to be broken just because you don't agree with them. We are a nation of laws. If you don't like a law then the responable and moral thing to do is to elect someone that reflects your views and who will change the law.

I think the drug laws are wrong. Does it make me immoral because I choose to obey them? I think the laws regarding the IRS and taxation are wrong. Does that make me immoral because I still obey those laws? No it does not. But I do support candidates that reflect my views and out of that maybe those laws will be changed. That is the moral way to do things.

If acting within the system results in the desired changes, then you are right.

Historically, that has not always been the case.

[GaryC 7]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

Sorry, I don't think I am wrong here. Our laws are not to be broken just because you don't agree with them. We are a nation of laws. If you don't like a law then the responable and moral thing to do is to elect someone that reflects your views and who will change the law.

I think the drug laws are wrong. Does it make me immoral because I choose to obey them? I think the laws regarding the IRS and taxation are wrong. Does that make me immoral because I still obey those laws? No it does not. But I do support candidates that reflect my views and out of that maybe those laws will be changed. That is the moral way to do things.

If acting within the system results in the desired changes, then you are right.

Historically, that has not always been the case.

Historically more laws have been changed within the system than outside the system. The first step is to try and work within the system and only resort to "civil disobediance" as a last resort. It seems we are jumping the gun here.

I agree that there have been some very bad laws that required extraordinary measures to change them, slavery and civil rights among them. But this issue does not rise to that level. And remember we are dealing with people that are here outside the law and rules of the country. While they should have the protections of our legal system while they are here that does not give them the right to ignore the very system of laws that protect them. They would have a lot more credibility if they worked inside the system instead of starting out by going outside the system.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Nobody here wants anything more than the law to be followed, those who are in this country illegally shoul dnot be given any special treatment, they should be made to return to where they came from ( be it Sweden, Ireland, or South America)

Then once they have paid for their criminal behavior and paid back taxes, and applied LEGALLY then they can enter.

What is so wrong with asking that the law be enforced, how is that un fair?

Why should a certain group of individuals (Illegal Criminal Aliens to be exact) Be allowed to break the laws and not have to follow the rules of immigrating legally? They should not be. They should have to return to where they came if they entered illegally, family or not, it is a matter of obeying the laws of the nation they wish to reside in, they fisrt must prove they are willing to obey the laws of OUR land not play by their own rules and expect a free ticket.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

Was it moral for me to have waffles this morning?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Everything is a moral issue. The only purpose served by denying that is to rationalize a course of action you know to be wrong.

Was it moral for me to have waffles this morning?

Did you steal them from a homeless person?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Nobody here wants anything more than the law to be followed, those who are in this country illegally shoul dnot be given any special treatment, they should be made to return to where they came from ( be it Sweden, Ireland, or South America)

Then once they have paid for their criminal behavior and paid back taxes, and applied LEGALLY then they can enter.

What is so wrong with asking that the law be enforced, how is that un fair?

Why should a certain group of individuals (Illegal Criminal Aliens to be exact) Be allowed to break the laws and not have to follow the rules of immigrating legally? They should not be. They should have to return to where they came if they entered illegally, family or not, it is a matter of obeying the laws of the nation they wish to reside in, they fisrt must prove they are willing to obey the laws of OUR land not play by their own rules and expect a free ticket.

Who would then live in the clown houses?

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Nobody here wants anything more than the law to be followed, those who are in this country illegally shoul dnot be given any special treatment, they should be made to return to where they came from ( be it Sweden, Ireland, or South America)

Then once they have paid for their criminal behavior and paid back taxes, and applied LEGALLY then they can enter.

What is so wrong with asking that the law be enforced, how is that un fair?

Why should a certain group of individuals (Illegal Criminal Aliens to be exact) Be allowed to break the laws and not have to follow the rules of immigrating legally? They should not be. They should have to return to where they came if they entered illegally, family or not, it is a matter of obeying the laws of the nation they wish to reside in, they fisrt must prove they are willing to obey the laws of OUR land not play by their own rules and expect a free ticket.

Who would then live in the clown houses?

The beauty of that would be that there would not be any Clown houses, more middle class LEGAL families could afford housing, or rent. No more Multi family homes in violation of Health Codes. Or Drug Houses or sanctuaries for Illegal Criminal NON IMMIGRANT ALIENS, No more lowered standards in public schools, no mor ehospitals closing down.

You are finally getting it! You made my point for me!

Edited May 23, 2007 by Addie_Goodvibes

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Was it moral for me to have waffles this morning?

So long as you ate those waffles in a place you were legally allowed to be or so long as you did not use A fraudulent Means of paying for or obtaining those waffles. So long as you did not violate the law to obtain your waffles.