Should the US join the EEC ?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Also, the idea already has been explored--and the US is the dominant of the NAFTA block.

(from one whose path to citizenship started through NAFTA)

I have to reveal more of my ignorance - what does nafta mean...

'No Agriculture For These Americans'

North American Free Trade Agreement.

(there are two other countries in NAFTA, which was an extension of the much-pushed Canada-US Free Trade Agreement of 1988).

What is wrong with it? Canada signed a Free Trade Agreement with the US, while Ontario regulates internal Canadian trade!

[homesick_american 1]

This is for the people here who may not be familiar with saywhat's antics in the United Kingdom forum:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=929019

Good thinking ! I started this topic as a serious one but conducted in a hopefully humorous fashion and I am happy with how it went overall. It is going to take a lot of tact and I might suppress my beliefs in the cause of harmony, but I sure won't change them- so honour will be satisfied...

I have just started a new one in 'other topics general' to discuss whether the USA should join the EEC - that one isn't totally serious and I just wanted to light a bonfire ! It is 'other topics' after all so it's not being a time waster - being ruled from Brussels should get em at it - I will try and stand back a bit and let a few others slog it out- of course it might not ruffle any feathers and nobody will contribute ? let's see

alan

Now your eyes are open. Debate away.

Shouldn't you have sent that one to teacher - with a box of chocolates ?

We had girls like you at school

spoilsport

but it won't because it's fun !

I tattled on cheaters, yep.

Believe me - as it stands the UK economy is being run into the ground. Looks good on paper - but thats about it.

The US economy is still pretty strong despite the national deficit. In some respects the low value of the dollar is actually a benefit - specifically to manufacturing. Though quite what state the US manufacturing industry is in these days is another matter.

The way I see it, the UK and US economies suffer from some of the same weaknesses, i.e. transitioning from manufacturing-based economies to service-based economies, high levels of personal debt, low levels of personal savings, higher-than-desirable inflation, etc.

How do you figure the UK's being run into the ground but the US is ok?

[Captain Oates 911]

The US economy is still pretty strong despite the national deficit. In some respects the low value of the dollar is actually a benefit - specifically to manufacturing.

yes but oil is priced in dollars - so as the dollar sinks, the arab princes need to jack up the dollar price so they can get more euros to spend on the ladies in monte carlo

so - US gasoline prices go up and that will remove cash that would have been spent by Americans on US goods...

[SteveLaura 0]

The 'Economic' part was dropped in 1992.

The UK will definitely adopt the Euro within the next 20 years, regardless of what the majority population want.

[homesick_american 1]

The 'Economic' part was dropped in 1992.

The UK will definitely adopt the Euro within the next 20 years, regardless of what the majority population want.

I dunno...the best time to do it would have been in the last 10 years.

[SteveLaura 0]

The 'Economic' part was dropped in 1992.

The UK will definitely adopt the Euro within the next 20 years, regardless of what the majority population want.

I dunno...the best time to do it would have been in the last 10 years.

Why?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The US economy is still pretty strong despite the national deficit. In some respects the low value of the dollar is actually a benefit - specifically to manufacturing.

yes but oil is priced in dollars - so as the dollar sinks, the arab princes need to jack up the dollar price so they can get more euros to spend on the ladies in monte carlo

so - US gasoline prices go up and that will remove cash that would have been spent by Americans on US goods...

Even at current prices gas is cheap in the US compared to the UK. What are they on over there now 6-7 ($12-15) quid a gallon?

The way I see it, the UK and US economies suffer from some of the same weaknesses, i.e. transitioning from manufacturing-based economies to service-based economies, high levels of personal debt, low levels of personal savings, higher-than-desirable inflation, etc.

How do you figure the UK's being run into the ground but the US is ok?

That's true. Certainly there is a greater disparity between the rich and poor in the US than I ever saw in the UK. For all the tax breaks it does seem to be as expensive (comparatively) to live here as it is in the UK.

Edited May 22, 2007 by erekose

[Captain Oates 911]

I tattled on cheaters, yep.

So what's cheating about starting a deliberately provocative subject in an 'anything goes' forum just for the heck of it - snitch girl ?

Some people are just spoilers and killjoys for the sake of it..

Is this normal in the US ? I must avoid generalising so I need to know...

I bet you used to tell your mum about dad's surprise presents

cor! girls !- I stayed away from em til I was 21 because of this kind of thing- but then i figured they had grown up

alan

[homesick_american 1]

The 'Economic' part was dropped in 1992.

The UK will definitely adopt the Euro within the next 20 years, regardless of what the majority population want.

I dunno...the best time to do it would have been in the last 10 years.

Why?

Because there are strict economic tests that have to be met in order for the UK to adopt the Euro, and you don't know what the future is going to bring. The economy would have been able to withstand the jolt of adopting the Euro from 1997-2007, but there could be a market crash, terrorist attack, interest rate leap, etc. right around the corner that could knock the UK economy to its knees for a loooooooooong time. Just look at how terrible conditions were in the 60s and 70s here. It could happen again.

[homesick_american 1]

Even at current prices gas is cheap in the US compared to the UK. What are they on over there now 6-7 ($12-15) quid a gallon?

More like $7.50/US gallon.

That's true. Certainly there is a greater disparity between the rich and poor in the US than I ever saw in the UK. For all the tax breaks it does seem to be as expensive (comparatively) to live here as it is in the UK.

That's because the UK government is more socialist and seems to not even flinch when uttering the words 'wealth redistribution'. It seems to me here that hard work is not rewarded as it is in the US, and you can bang your head against the wall for years and never make any progress because of the class system (yep, it's still around), academic prejudice, xenophobia, and the extremely stingy wages.

I find the UK hellishly expensive, much more so than Texas was. I had a much higher standard of living in Texas, that's for sure.

Some people are just spoilers and killjoys for the sake of it..

Is this normal in the US ? I must avoid generalising so I need to know...

I bet you used to tell your mum about dad's surprise presents

cor! girls !- I stayed away from em til I was 21 because of this kind of thing- but then i figured they had grown up

alan

Alan, I don't like you. I don't like your behavior and I don't like the way you try to take advantage of Americans and people in general who aren't as cynical as you, and you seem to mistake earnestness for naivete and you laugh at it.

I really hate your attitude.

Is this in any way unclear?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

IMO, history is enough reason. US fought to get independent of UK, and didn't give the nation over to (ally) France.

So, this hard-won sovereignty should not be surrendered willy-nilly.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Even at current prices gas is cheap in the US compared to the UK. What are they on over there now 6-7 ($12-15) quid a gallon?

More like $7.50/US gallon.

That's true. Certainly there is a greater disparity between the rich and poor in the US than I ever saw in the UK. For all the tax breaks it does seem to be as expensive (comparatively) to live here as it is in the UK.

That's because the UK government is more socialist and seems to not even flinch when uttering the words 'wealth redistribution'. It seems to me here that hard work is not rewarded as it is in the US, and you can bang your head against the wall for years and never make any progress because of the class system (yep, it's still around), academic prejudice, xenophobia, and the extremely stingy wages.

I find the UK hellishly expensive, much more so than Texas was. I had a much higher standard of living in Texas, that's for sure.

Ironically enough we had a higher standard of living in Southern California when we were both making less money than we currently do in NJ.

[SteveLaura 0]

The 'Economic' part was dropped in 1992.

The UK will definitely adopt the Euro within the next 20 years, regardless of what the majority population want.

I dunno...the best time to do it would have been in the last 10 years.

Why?

Because there are strict economic tests that have to be met in order for the UK to adopt the Euro, and you don't know what the future is going to bring. The economy would have been able to withstand the jolt of adopting the Euro from 1997-2007, but there could be a market crash, terrorist attack, interest rate leap, etc. right around the corner that could knock the UK economy to its knees for a loooooooooong time. Just look at how terrible conditions were in the 60s and 70s here. It could happen again.

The Economic Tests

1) Convergence

2) Flexibility

3) Investment

4) Financial services

5) Employment and growth

All of which some government will say has been passed with flying colours at some point. It seems to me that it's my parents' generation (in their 70s) that are the most opposed to it - those who still talk longingly about the shilling and sixpence and look back at 1971 with horror and confusion. My generation and those that follow will see the ease of travel within Europe as a major plus to accept it. I have no special, fond memories of pounds and pence and, to paraphrase Morrissey, seeing a Monarch's head on a fiver "says nothing to me about my life".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Because there are strict economic tests that have to be met in order for the UK to adopt the Euro, and you don't know what the future is going to bring. The economy would have been able to withstand the jolt of adopting the Euro from 1997-2007, but there could be a market crash, terrorist attack, interest rate leap, etc. right around the corner that could knock the UK economy to its knees for a loooooooooong time. Just look at how terrible conditions were in the 60s and 70s here. It could happen again.

Not to mention Brown's excessive taxes. For some reason he reminds me a lot of the Sheriff of Nottingham...

His latest one is a so called environmental survey tax if you want to sell your house - about £600 and that’s on top of the percentage he takes in stamp duty, about 3% ~ 5% of the selling price. Death duties are another one, pretty much everyone who owns a house now is caught by it, they have even changed the rules so that you can’t pass on your half to your spouse – they treat the value of the house as the husbands as he was usually the bread winner and hit you with a 40% tax on anything you own over £300k – they even want to know how much your clothes are worth! Then whatevers left the councils try and grab to pay for the long term care of your partner.

Then there's the small matter of him putting up income taxes on the poorest paid from 10% to 20% in the last budget.

[homesick_american 1]

The Economic Tests

1) Convergence

2) Flexibility

3) Investment

4) Financial services

5) Employment and growth

All of which some government will say has been passed with flying colours at some point. It seems to me that it's my parents' generation (in their 70s) that are the most opposed to it - those who still talk longingly about the shilling and sixpence and look back at 1971 with horror and confusion. My generation and those that follow will see the ease of travel within Europe as a major plus to accept it. I have no special, fond memories of pounds and pence and, to paraphrase Morrissey, seeing a Monarch's head on a fiver "says nothing to me about my life".

I know what the tests are; it doesn't matter if they were passed at some point, they all must be passed at the same time before the Euro can be adopted. Also, they're pretty subjective so if public opinion is against it (as it is right now and will continue to be), then the government can simply state that the tests haven't been passed yet. Plus there's the problem of banknotes in NI and Scotland being issued by non-central banks and of crown dependencies such as Gibraltar, the Isle of Man, etc. who mint their own coins but who would be forbidden to do so if the UK adopted the Euro. Since many UK crown dependencies are wealthy tax shelters, you can bet they'll howl if they're tied to European monetary policy. :lol:

Plus, the UK and Denmark are both exempt from the particular requirement of the Maastricht Treaty that required current member states to adopt the Euro so in theory they could both refrain indefinitely.

:thumbs:

His latest one is a so called environmental survey tax if you want to sell your house - about £600 and that’s on top of the percentage he takes in stamp duty, about 3% ~ 5% of the selling price.

Ah yes, the dreaded HIP.

Death duties are another one, pretty much everyone who owns a house now is caught by it, they have even changed the rules so that you can’t pass on your half to your spouse – they treat the value of the house as the husbands as he was usually the bread winner and hit you with a 40% tax on anything you own over £300k – they even want to know how much your clothes are worth! Then whatevers left the councils try and grab to pay for the long term care of your partner.

My father-in-law got popped by that when his mother died, leaving him a house and land worth over 600,000 pounds...which he has to sell in order to pay the taxes on it.

Then there's the small matter of him putting up income taxes on the poorest paid from 10% to 20% in the last budget.

Yeah, I noticed that too.