Should the US join the EEC ?

[Captain Oates 911]

Away from the Sesame-Street-brigade, those of you who have studied Economics have come across the maxim, "Amerika sneezes, and the rest of the world catches a cold."

However, with the U.S. Economy debt-laden, flagging and impotent, the World Economy is charging along at rapid pace and hasn't had such strong economic growth in 30 years. Only a few months ago, Chinese Stock Markets had a sudden downtown and the rest of the world held its breath.

This is harbinger.

The writing is on the wall for amerika.

Basically, empires/kingdoms/nations have risen throughout history--and all of them have fallen due to various factors (internal corruption one of them, being present in cent-percent of nations). No surprise that it applies to America just as it did to Assyria, (ancient) Persia, (Alexandrian) Macedonia, (imperial) Rome and imperial Britain (from which the US freed itself initially).

Yeah I bet the Romans would have crucified me if I laughed at the fatties in the line to the burger stall at the Coloseum

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Alan - as I said the difference is that you've been using those broadbrush stereotypes to make sweeping value about American national identity. Weasel around however you want and feel free to continue to play the victim card about "free speech".

BTW - what exactly am I "selling out"? You never did explain that.

I want you to take back that race thing which is totally untrue .. when i started an irreverant controversial and deliberately provocative topic I was quite happy about being called all kinds of fool and arrogant and idiot - no problem. The race thing is hurtful though and I wasn't prepared for that and you got through to me.

I enjoy being stereotyped as a tyke and as long as I don't disadvantage anyone or refuse them a room or hurt them in any way, then I see nothing wrong with poking and teasing each other with these stereotypes. 'Throw another shrimp on the barbie' might annoy all Australians but it's a stretch to call it racism.

The point of these forums is to swap information about people's new lives in the US and I think it is absolutely undeniable that Americans (here I go generalizing) are far more prickly about perceived critisisms than any other nationality or race that I can think of..

I am really glad I have explored this and brought out all the screaming resentments and it will be so valuable for my new life in America. I will absolutely refuse to discuss politics or religion or even 90 year olds showing driving licences to buy beer with anyone except a foreigner (non-US) or someone I know very, very well.

I hope other readers will read all these exchanges and learn and be very very careful in the US because there isn't the same freedom to poke fun at the country and they need to know that.

As Brits, you and I can rubbish the UK all day long and with foreigners too - and everyone can keep a good demeanour - except when they then go on to say their country is superior. You can't do that in the US and these forums have demonstrated that. I know all the UK's faults and I don't set it up over the US.What seems like a load of juvenile nastiness is actually very good instruction for would be immigrants. I have learned a valuable lesson and come up with a strategy to live by in the US which I know will work, and I think the readers will appreciate the insight these exchanges give

ps I say you are a sell out because you perspective is purely American, and with the immigrant experience you are having, you should help Brits to understand the problems of living in a foreign land and not just minimize them and beat the drum for your new country.

ps I am the 'victim' of an awful slur (racism) but I am not whining and asking for support - I am self supportive and can fight my own battles. The Americans will be glad to have me when they know me.

alan

Actually Alan - if you go back and actually look through some of the older threads you'll find no shortage of discussion and criticism of the US on a whole range of actual solid issues - ranging from Iraq, gun control, the economy, healthcare, public services, abortion, stem cell research, religion etc. More to the point you'll find that agreement even among americans on those issues is far from unanimous - and that disagreement is especially marked on forums like this.

Sorry if you got offended - but broadly characterising Americans as gun-toting rednecks is racist, however you look at it. If you want "debate" something it generally helps to have a little something actually behind your arguments, rather than just saying "they're all intolerant b*stards". So far all throwing insults around has gotten you is to alienate you from virtually the entire VJ community. But doubtless that fits right in with your ideas about America as a land of "intolerant people".

You just don't seem to have respect for people - which ultimately it comes down to a bad attitude, poorly developed social skills and a case of bad manners. But if that works for you - go right ahead. Just don't be surprised when it blows back on you...

Edited May 23, 2007 by erekose

[Captain Oates 911]

Alan - as I said the difference is that you've been using those broadbrush stereotypes to make sweeping value about American national identity. Weasel around however you want and feel free to continue to play the victim card about "free speech".

BTW - what exactly am I "selling out"? You never did explain that.

I want you to take back that race thing which is totally untrue .. when i started an irreverant controversial and deliberately provocative topic I was quite happy about being called all kinds of fool and arrogant and idiot - no problem. The race thing is hurtful though and I wasn't prepared for that and you got through to me.

I enjoy being stereotyped as a tyke and as long as I don't disadvantage anyone or refuse them a room or hurt them in any way, then I see nothing wrong with poking and teasing each other with these stereotypes. 'Throw another shrimp on the barbie' might annoy all Australians but it's a stretch to call it racism.

The point of these forums is to swap information about people's new lives in the US and I think it is absolutely undeniable that Americans (here I go generalizing) are far more prickly about perceived critisisms than any other nationality or race that I can think of..

I am really glad I have explored this and brought out all the screaming resentments and it will be so valuable for my new life in America. I will absolutely refuse to discuss politics or religion or even 90 year olds showing driving licences to buy beer with anyone except a foreigner (non-US) or someone I know very, very well.

I hope other readers will read all these exchanges and learn and be very very careful in the US because there isn't the same freedom to poke fun at the country and they need to know that.

As Brits, you and I can rubbish the UK all day long and with foreigners too - and everyone can keep a good demeanour - except when they then go on to say their country is superior. You can't do that in the US and these forums have demonstrated that. I know all the UK's faults and I don't set it up over the US.What seems like a load of juvenile nastiness is actually very good instruction for would be immigrants. I have learned a valuable lesson and come up with a strategy to live by in the US which I know will work, and I think the readers will appreciate the insight these exchanges give

ps I say you are a sell out because you perspective is purely American, and with the immigrant experience you are having, you should help Brits to understand the problems of living in a foreign land and not just minimize them and beat the drum for your new country.

ps I am the 'victim' of an awful slur (racism) but I am not whining and asking for support - I am self supportive and can fight my own battles. The Americans will be glad to have me when they know me.

alan

Actually Alan - if you go back and actually look through some of the older threads you'll find no shortage of discussion and criticism of the US on a whole range of actual solid issues - ranging from Iraq, gun control, the economy, healthcare, public services, abortion, stem cell research, religion etc. More to the point you'll find that agreement even among americans on those issues is far from unanimous - and that disagreement is especially marked on forums like this.

Sorry if you got offended - but broadly characterising Americans as gun-toting rednecks is racist, however you look at it. If you want "debate" something it generally helps to have a little something actually behind your arguments, rather than just saying "they're all intolerant b*stards". So far all throwing insults around has gotten you is to alienate you from virtually the entire VJ community. But doubtless that fits right in with your ideas about America as a land of "intolerant people".

You just don't seem to have respect for people - which ultimately it comes down to a bad attitude, poorly developed social skills and a case of bad manners. But if that works for you - go right ahead. Just don't be surprised when it blows back on you...

You are ascribing words to me that I never used such as land of "intolerant people"...."they're all intolerant b*stards etc etc

That is just your interpretation and you are not infallible

That is just continuing your unfairness.

And nobody has appointed you as the spokesperson - (nearly said spokesman but didn't want to get your back up)-for all of VJ

There are hundreds of people reading topics and the majority are good people but silent like in nazi germany cos they don't like a fight.

So stop claiming a democratic victory over me when nobody has voted - and stop paraphrasing me with words I never used..

I have worked out that you are educated but with a different perspective from mine which is generally liberal but interested in the culture differences and wanting to talk about them without being beat up by people who immediately assume I want to list the negatives about America

You are employing an old tactic against me - in the 1600 people cried 'witch' and had people burned if they didnt like their views - it was so successfull the Americans used it at Salem

Then it was 'Commie' in the 50;s

The modern equivalent is 'Racist' and it works as well as it always did...

Just as people should have been ashamed to cry 'witch' and 'commie' - you should be ashamed to cry RACIST just to try and win your point

In a strongly Christian land , you should remind yourself about 'bearing false witness' cos you know where that will lead..

alan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Alan - you've said as much. In fact the majority of your posts in this thread are about intolerant America, so whether or not you said those words specifically doesn't matter as your meaning was fairly clear IMO.

Unfair? Hardly... Unfair is using cultural stereotypes to broad-brush Americans as violent gun-toting rednecks and then expecting people to not be offended by it. So pretending that you're up for a reasonable discussion (with a "generally liberal perspective") when all you have done so far is provoke and confront - using insults and crude generalisations is more than a little disingenuous...

If you want to talk about particular issues in this country - I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and actually start a discussion about one of the "issues of the day" and spend your time actually discussing that rather than sitting around insulting people, which (so far at least) are all your "views" seem to amount to.

BTW - you can criticise the US, as myself and others have done - on a whole range of issues. Not everyone agrees - and that difference of opinion is marked between the various members (both immigrant and USC). Its hardly unanimous on either side of the fence. But congrats on uniting many of those people against you

Edited May 23, 2007 by erekose

[metta 0]

Aww Alan. It's a song that never ends, goes on and on my friend..............

You raised a false issue that does not exist and then ensnare people into pointless debate.

It appears, you have decided VJ to be the perfect place for your attention seeking at this late stage in life

I think you need some help

Disruptive/Attention Seeking

help

Symptoms

1. Draws attention to self through silly behaviors, loud talking, making inappropriate noises or gestures, and blurting out remarks

2. Lack of sensitivity to how attention-seeking behaviors impact other people

3. Obstinate refusal to comply with authority figures at home or school settings

4. Strained sibling or peer relationships due to annoying and antagonistic behaviors

Possible Causes

1. Feels inadequate

2. Divert attention away from their own problems

3. Been exposed to conflicted or tense atmosphere

4. Disruption becomes part of their identity

5. Learned behavior - got attention in the past from being disruptive

Goals

1. Terminate disruptive attention-seeking behaviors and increase cooperation

2. Gain attention, approval and acceptance from others through positive means

3. Display empathy, concern and respect for others’ thoughts and feelings

4. Resolve core conflicts that contribute to disruptive/attention seeking behaviors

5. Demonstrate marked improvement in impulse control

6. Establish and maintain positive relationships with peers and friends

How to Help

1. Arrange for psychological testing/refer to outside agency (possible ADHD)

2. Teach appropriate and timely humor

3. Assist parents in arranging situations where student is in the limelight (music, sports)

4. Establish clear rules for the student at home or school

5. Use art, play or role-plays to practice appropriate behavior and display empathy

6. Parents/Teachers utilize short term behavior contracts to reinforce positive behaviors

7. Use therapeutic games to assist student to ‘Stop and Think’ before they misbehave

8. Examine the core conflicts that contribute to the disruptive behavior

9. Teach the student the ‘Problem Solving Model’

10. Encourage parents to give their child an allotted time of undivided attention each day

11. Examine how the student’s behaviors affect others

Back to Interventions Home

Back to Counseling Reference Home

Edited May 23, 2007 by metta

[Captain Oates 911]

Alan - you've said as much. In fact the majority of your posts in this thread are about intolerant America, so whether or not you said those words specifically doesn't matter as your meaning was fairly clear IMO.

Unfair? Hardly... Unfair is using cultural stereotypes to broad-brush Americans as violent gun-toting rednecks and then expecting people to not be offended by it. So pretending that you're up for a reasonable discussion (with a "generally liberal perspective") when all you have done so far is provoke and confront - using insults and crude generalisations is more than a little disingenuous...

If you want to talk about particular issues in this country - I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and actually start a discussion about one of the "issues of the day" and spend your time actually discussing that rather than sitting around insulting people, which (so far at least) are all your "views" seem to amount to.

BTW - you can criticise the US, as myself and others have done - on a whole range of issues. Not everyone agrees - and that difference of opinion is marked between the various members (both immigrant and USC). Its hardly unanimous on either side of the fence. But congrats on uniting many of those people against you

I know hundred (yes hundreds ) of Americans because I have had an indefinite visa since around the time you were sucking on dummies I guess, and I don't know one who has a gun - even though I like guns and used to be Secretary of Ilkley gun club - so I don't know where you are getting it all from... I reckon you made your mind up about me and I insulted you deliberately a few times and it is blinding to you to the what I actually said...

I am no newcomer to America but most of my time was spent in Georgia

The first time some motown came on the radio while I was driving, I asked my American companion if he liked Motown and he replied 'Yeah, I really like that N****r music...

and he actually wasn't trying to be racist - thats how they spoke !

I was truly shocked

So don't tell me I am racist for sniggering at the fatties in the line to the burger stall at Disneyworld etc coz that is not in the same league

yes I am argumentative and arrogant and if anyone gets on my case I have the ammo to fit em up - but I am not a racist or an alcoholic and just for the record I am not fat and I don't stink. (Your words about me , not my imagination of your words)

So get over me tweaking your ereknose and try and see what there is to see in black and white without inventing evidence...

Jeez I hope you never run into the back of my car - you would say I was driving too close in front.

alan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Alan - you've said as much. In fact the majority of your posts in this thread are about intolerant America, so whether or not you said those words specifically doesn't matter as your meaning was fairly clear IMO.

Unfair? Hardly... Unfair is using cultural stereotypes to broad-brush Americans as violent gun-toting rednecks and then expecting people to not be offended by it. So pretending that you're up for a reasonable discussion (with a "generally liberal perspective") when all you have done so far is provoke and confront - using insults and crude generalisations is more than a little disingenuous...

If you want to talk about particular issues in this country - I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and actually start a discussion about one of the "issues of the day" and spend your time actually discussing that rather than sitting around insulting people, which (so far at least) are all your "views" seem to amount to.

BTW - you can criticise the US, as myself and others have done - on a whole range of issues. Not everyone agrees - and that difference of opinion is marked between the various members (both immigrant and USC). Its hardly unanimous on either side of the fence. But congrats on uniting many of those people against you

I know hundred (yes hundreds ) of Americans because I have had an indefinite visa since around the time you were sucking on dummies I guess, and I don't know one who has a gun - even though I like guns and used to be Secretary of Ilkley gun club - so I don't know where you are getting it all from... I reckon you made your mind up about me and I insulted you deliberately a few times and it is blinding to you to the what I actually said...

I am no newcomer to America but most of my time was spent in Georgia

The first time some motown came on the radio while I was driving, I asked my American companion if he liked Motown and he replied 'Yeah, I really like that N****r music...

and he actually wasn't trying to be racist - thats how they spoke !

I was truly shocked

So don't tell me I am racist for sniggering at the fatties in the line to the burger stall at Disneyworld etc coz that is not in the same league

yes I am argumentative and arrogant and if anyone gets on my case I have the ammo to fit em up - but I am not a racist or an alcoholic and just for the record I am not fat and I don't stink. (Your words about me , not my imagination of your words)

So get over me tweaking your ereknose and try and see what there is to see in black and white without inventing evidence...

Jeez I hope you never run into the back of my car - you would say I was driving too close in front.

alan

The hole only gets deeper doesn't it?

I'm honestly surprised that having made assumptions about large numbers of people here (as violent rednecks that you're trying to expose) that you're really surprised that others give you the same treatment.

Of course its only "unfair" when its directed at you - classic case of being unable to take what you give out.

[Captain Oates 911]

The hole only gets deeper doesn't it?

I'm honestly surprised that having made assumptions about large numbers of people here (as violent rednecks that you're trying to expose) that you're really surprised that others give you the same treatment.

Of course its only "unfair" when its directed at you - classic case of being unable to take what you give out.

ok well I am going to stop posting now Ericnose as I have to tidy up for the return of my beautiful patriotic proud AMERICAN wife who I am taking to Paris on Friday..

She is part American Indian - what you in your thought police PC world would call Native American

The readers can run back through it and decide what is fair and right and whether I am a RACIST against the AMERICAN RACE...

You and I will never know their conclusions as only a few closed minds will post and they will probably be the *!!!FFF! brigade who always single out the lone voice - get em on their own and they back off... you didnt ericnose but you have still done me a terrible injustice just because I tweaked your hooter a few times and I hope you come to realise that one day.....

I can take anything from you or anyone except 'racist'

see you around the forums sometime and be careful of the 9th commandment - the guy wasnt joking

alan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The hole only gets deeper doesn't it?

I'm honestly surprised that having made assumptions about large numbers of people here (as violent rednecks that you're trying to expose) that you're really surprised that others give you the same treatment.

Of course its only "unfair" when its directed at you - classic case of being unable to take what you give out.

ok well I am going to stop posting now Ericnose as I have to tidy up for the return of my beautiful patriotic proud AMERICAN wife who I am taking to Paris on Friday..

She is part American Indian - what you in your thought police PC world would call Native American

The readers can run back through it and decide what is fair and right and whether I am a RACIST against the AMERICAN RACE...

You and I will never know their conclusions as only a few closed minds will post and they will probably be the *!!!FFF! brigade who always single out the lone voice - get em on their own and they back off... you didnt ericnose but you have still done me a terrible injustice just because I tweaked your hooter a few times and I hope you come to realise that one day.....

I can take anything from you or anyone except 'racist'

see you around the forums sometime and be careful of the 9th commandment - the guy wasnt joking

alan

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW - if you posted anything actually new (or dare I say it "Substantive") on a given issue it might validate your opinion of yourself as a maverick "lone voice", but even that's questionable if you can't demonstrate basic good manners.

Instead you chose to go on a "fishing expedition" - insulting people merely to validate your preconceived ideas about Americans while failing miserably to discuss much of anything about any relevant social/political topic. The prior comment about "attention seeking" was bang on the money IMO.

Your wife sure sounds like one tolerant lady. That's not a sarcastic comment BTW...

Edited May 23, 2007 by erekose

[Captain Oates 911]

Your wife sure sounds like one tolerant lady. That's not a sarcastic comment BTW...

You aren't fit to mention my wife if you have to make your points the way you do with horrible untrue slurs and invented quotes...

I said some stupid things but you invented some worse things and said I said em

I wondered why someone posted >> 'he is taking on ericose-this should be good'

I behaved badly and I was arrogant and insulting mainly because I was bored and came on for a romp- - but you what you did was such a cheap trick that it was far worse

What next ? are you going to 'win' your argument by saying you have seen your opponents on the 'wanted paedophile sites'

I would rather take an insult than respond in your fashion

Good well thats off my chest and so as long as VJ is inhabited by such folk, I reckon that's the end of my postings in any but the On topic forums for which I am sure that your sychophants will be pleased..

I think you will miss me for all that Ericose cos you know I can give you a run for your money

ps can we have a photo on your profile ? why not ?

alan

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

alan,

You don't strike me as the type to run off of Off Topic because erekose was mean to you.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Your wife sure sounds like one tolerant lady. That's not a sarcastic comment BTW...

You aren't fit to mention my wife if you have to make your points the way you do with horrible untrue slurs and invented quotes...

I said some stupid things but you invented some worse things and said I said em

I wondered why someone posted >> 'he is taking on ericose-this should be good'

I behaved badly and I was arrogant and insulting mainly because I was bored and came on for a romp- - but you what you did was such a cheap trick that it was far worse

What next ? are you going to 'win' your argument by saying you have seen your opponents on the 'wanted paedophile sites'

I would rather take an insult than respond in your fashion

Good well thats off my chest and so as long as VJ is inhabited by such folk, I reckon that's the end of my postings in any but the On topic forums for which I am sure that your sychophants will be pleased..

I think you will miss me for all that Ericose cos you know I can give you a run for your money

ps can we have a photo on your profile ? why not ?

alan

You said what you said. And I ain't budging

P.S. There is a photo on my profile Just not of me.

[Captain Oates 911]

alan,

You don't strike me as the type to run off of Off Topic because erekose was mean to you.

I know he won't budge - I can take a ton of insults without swearing back or getting upset -

sometimes I revel in getting slapped around

but that racism thing has really got to me. I have so many American friends and family and it's just awful

I have a sikh friend here that I go drinking with (yes a sikh drinking) , and german friends even though they shot my grandad dead etc etc and I love to talk to my pakistani taxi drivers on the way to the airport and get involved in their lives - I pride myself that I don't have a racist bone in my body- so this really hurts..

I can't risk being suddenly hit with something like this when I am being playful on the forum.

can't I say that I don't like one tiny little thing bad about my new country - America , without being called a racist against Americans !

I would like to stay, I would like to be less silly and less arrogant and less insulting - but I can't risk retaliation at this level

that was so cynical as a trump card- just to win a VJ argument as well

alan

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Every Sikh guy I know is a lush.

[Captain Oates 911]

alan,

You don't strike me as the type to run off of Off Topic because erekose was mean to you.

ps I am not the only one throwing out insults (which I did and plenty) - he called me a 'fat stinking racist'

not only am I not a racist - I am not fat and I don't stink

and to all the fat ladies on here (and there are plenty)--- note his adjectives

In fact I think I will have a hot bath and a gin to try and calm down.

Picking my lovely American wife up early at Manchester..... hope she doesn't see how distressed I am by this guy

jeez

Every Sikh guy I know is a lush.

I love the lions I really do