Working without pay during shutdown, more TSA agents are calling in sick

[NikLR 13,232]

28 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It was pure socialism from an economy standpoint, my wife has confirmed this fact many times; the leadership was a communistic committee system.  As to protecting the border from those that would cross it illegally, I don't see that as actually going backward.  It is the duty of the Federal Government to protect the country, this seems like something that should have been front and center.  There have been amnesties in the past with a lot of promises forgotten regarding border security, it is time to do something about it.  That may free up some ICE agents to go after visa over stays.

Im trying to figure out if you want us to be east Berlin and surrounded by a wall with gestapo watching our every move or west Berlin trying to help our family stuck in the east?

[payxibka 10,047]

3 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Im trying to figure out if you want us to be east Berlin and surrounded by a wall with gestapo watching our every move or west Berlin trying to help our family stuck in the east?

Gestapo? You must certainly mean the KGB 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Are those things on the table though? Even remotely? I guess if Bernie had won, we would need to know that. The wall could be a reality in the near future, so the cost of funding the wall indefinitely is something we realistically should be asking. 

they have been broached as goals, so your remotely question, I would say yes. Pelosi has stated she is not paying for the wall (as if it were her money), does she mean in any form and at any cost? You have 2 sets of children unwilling to admit defeat, those children will not be the ones suffering, regardless of the bi-directional finger pointing both sides are at fault for letting it deteriorate to this point. 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

1 minute ago, payxibka said:

Gestapo? You must certainly mean the KGB 

I think it would be Stasni .. but .... 

[payxibka 10,047]

1 minute ago, Randyandyuni said:

I think it would be Stasni .. but .... 

Yeah.  Stasi.  The GDR counterpart of the KGB 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

6 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Im trying to figure out if you want us to be east Berlin and surrounded by a wall with gestapo watching our every move or west Berlin trying to help our family stuck in the east?

if the family you speak of in West Berlin is here legally then I am all for them bringing in their East Berlin relatives 

[abum 324]

why not step back a bit understand why the US is in this predicament based on the statements by the President who refused to sign the bill to re-open the government if he could not get his way to get money to build the wall.

 

1. Mexico will pay for the wall (No they wont! multiple times they have said that), even on this forum, supporters of this false statement made by the president would come up with ways to justify how a sovereign government can be forced to pay on walls built by a different country on foreign land...... (oh yeah we can charge/tax for each remittance made to Mexico etc). 

2. End of last year, the President said he will own the shutdown (not gonna point fingers to others)

3. Then recently, tweets saying the wall had been built and contracts been signed (odd the president is handing out contracts now).

4. Oh and Mexico is sort of paying for the wall via the recent agreement signed (but that agreement had not been in effect yet!)

If it is so easy to make Mexico pay for the wall, (not yet talking about the cost of maintaining), why would the President put the government to hostage by shutting it down? 

 

Why not make Mexico pay for the wall? Why shutdown the government? 

 

And somehow someone managed to point fingers to the Democrats when the Congress and WH are of the same party (Republican) when the Shutdown started? Derailed train of logic it seemed. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by abum

[abum 324]

If people really believe that the wall is gonna work, then ask the President to sign the bill that will open up the government, and then ask him to follow through with his promise that Mexico will pay for the wall.

Simple isn't it?

 

(why would he need to ask 5bil to fund the wall, if he and his supporters believed his statement that Mexico will pay for the wall? )

Edited January 7, 2019 by abum

[Dashinka 24,752]

16 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Im trying to figure out if you want us to be east Berlin and surrounded by a wall with gestapo watching our every move or west Berlin trying to help our family stuck in the east?

Where did I imply that I wanted border protection to keep Americans from leaving.  If you research history, when WWII ended and Germany was split up, there was free flow of people between the East and the West, then when the East government saw that they were losing most of the intellectuals, they started restricting that freedom of movement eventually ending up with the Berlin Wall.  As already mentioned, the border protection being proposed really has no comparison to the Berlin Wall, or the Iron Curtain for that matter.  We put up barriers all over the place related to international arrivals which funnel folks to valid POEs, why should this not be done down South?

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

22 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Im trying to figure out if you want us to be east Berlin and surrounded by a wall with gestapo watching our every move or west Berlin trying to help our family stuck in the east?

I don't want to be either, not sure why we have to choose between 2 examples that don't have anything to do with what is going on now 

[refugee 169]

18 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

Have it your way ... these requests for cash are what cause the logjam that leads to government shutdown ... unknown requests for some as yet unknown costs 

The government shutdown is because the President has not signed the CR.

[jg121783 3,921]

1 hour ago, NikLR said:

Working for the government should mean stability.  Thats why people work for the government.  It should not mean twice yearly shut downs. The government should run.  This isnt a small 3rd world country or one in the middle of a civil war.  When was the last time the government in Canada, the UK, even Germany shut down?  Closest I can think of for any of those was WW2 and And that's 60 years ago, during a war... A government job should mean job security and stability. Yes people should have savings regardless.  But 5 years after arriving in the USA im finally making what i did in Canada and while some of my cost of living is lower, like food, majority is higher.  But moving north isnt an option for us as my husband would be paid less and have to travel significantly more working the same job plus it would be privatized.  Our state itself has a high cost of living which is why we are planning on moving eventually. 

 

Those in East Berlin certainly did not want to be there either.  Why go backwards?  You can call it socialism but it was communism not socialism.  Just because you call a duck a swan doesnt make it a swan. 

I don't mean to be unsympathetic towards your situation. I do have sympathy for you and others in this situation. My brother who is in the military (along with his wife) faced the same thing during the Obama shutdown. They had no income during that time. Let me be blunt though. There is no such thing as complete stability no matter what your job is or even if you run your own business. That is especially so for government jobs where things can change overnight at the whim of a politician or group of politicians. I know I could be laid off tomorrow and my employer has no obligation to give me any notice as unlikely as it is to happen.

 

The only form of stability comes with having money and resources set aside for tough times. My brother learned this during the Obama shutdown and he is the one who convinced my wife and I to set up an emergency fund of 6 months of expenses a little over a year ago. It wasn't easy. We both worked so much overtime we basically lived at work. If you can't get overtime take a second job short term if you have to. It was a sacrifice. But it was only a short term sacrifice. Very few things worth doing are easy but I'm telling you this is worth doing. There is nothing like the peace of mind you get having $20-$30k (depending on your expenses maybe more) in the bank for emergencies. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say so I in no way fault you for not having enough savings right now. However I hope you will consider it for the future. I really wish you the best and hope this nonsense ends soon so it has the least impact on you family possible. 

 

46 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Working for the government also means some lazy, barely productive people are in the mix.  Potentially a majority of them.  And those types of people are not generally self-driven to save their money for the lean times.  They lay back and expect the government to keep rewarding them (with a salary) for a “job” they barely work at.

 

Note: This does not apply to ALL government workers.  Some actually do work their butts off.  But not all work hard.

To a certain degree I agree. I knew a guy who worked for the state doing highway construction. He sat on a stool all day holding a stop sign and got paid $40 an hour plus great benefits. My wife on the other hand is a state employee working at a veterans home. In my opinion she is overworked and under paid and is regularly required to work 16 hour shifts sometimes with only 15 minutes notice and as little as 8 hours in between shifts. The health insurance is great though.

 

35 minutes ago, abum said:

it costs money to go to work, and time as well, one might have spent the time working on something else that might provide sustenance. 

 

i read somewhere that sometimes that wont get backpay. 

I think you read some false information then because if you put in the hours you will eventually get back pay. No one is being required to work for free.

[abum 324]

2 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

 

I think you read some false information then because if you put in the hours you will eventually get back pay. No one is being required to work for free.

I know for sure Contractors of Gov wont get back-pay. but Gov employees, according to a number of news outlets i read, will get backpay (though maybe a tiny few said they wont- but did not read the exact detail).

[abum 324]

35 minutes ago, refugee said:

The government shutdown is because the President has not signed the CR.

Some will chose to ignore the facts of why this shutdown happened.  

52 minutes ago, abum said:

why not step back a bit understand why the US is in this predicament based on the statements by the President who refused to sign the bill to re-open the government if he could not get his way to get money to build the wall.

 

1. Mexico will pay for the wall (No they wont! multiple times they have said that), even on this forum, supporters of this false statement made by the president would come up with ways to justify how a sovereign government can be forced to pay on walls built by a different country on foreign land...... (oh yeah we can charge/tax for each remittance made to Mexico etc). 

2. End of last year, the President said he will own the shutdown (not gonna point fingers to others)

3. Then recently, tweets saying the wall had been built and contracts been signed (odd the president is handing out contracts now).

4. Oh and Mexico is sort of paying for the wall via the recent agreement signed (but that agreement had not been in effect yet!)

If it is so easy to make Mexico pay for the wall, (not yet talking about the cost of maintaining), why would the President put the government to hostage by shutting it down? 

 

Why not make Mexico pay for the wall? Why shutdown the government? 

 

And somehow someone managed to point fingers to the Democrats when the Congress and WH are of the same party (Republican) when the Shutdown started? Derailed train of logic it seemed. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

  We put up barriers all over the place related to international arrivals which funnel folks to valid POEs, why should this not be done down South?

Sure, put up the wall if anyone believes it will work, but do not put the government to hostage by not signing the CR to fund it, if no funds for the promised wall is included. 

 

According to RealDonaldTrump "Much of the Wall has already been fully renovated or built. "

 

And the President should follow through his promise of making Mexico pay for the wall. 

 

 

 

[refugee 169]

3 minutes ago, abum said:

I know for sure Contractors of Gov wont get back-pay. but Gov employees, according to a number of news outlets i read, will get backpay (though maybe a tiny few said they wont- but did not read the exact detail).

New hires also will not get pay. Some of those folks have quit there jobs.