Working without pay during shutdown, more TSA agents are calling in sick

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 hour ago, abum said:

why not step back a bit understand why the US is in this predicament based on the statements by the President who refused to sign the bill to re-open the government if he could not get his way to get money to build the wall.

 

1. Mexico will pay for the wall (No they wont! multiple times they have said that), even on this forum, supporters of this false statement made by the president would come up with ways to justify how a sovereign government can be forced to pay on walls built by a different country on foreign land...... (oh yeah we can charge/tax for each remittance made to Mexico etc). 

2. End of last year, the President said he will own the shutdown (not gonna point fingers to others)

3. Then recently, tweets saying the wall had been built and contracts been signed (odd the president is handing out contracts now).

4. Oh and Mexico is sort of paying for the wall via the recent agreement signed (but that agreement had not been in effect yet!)

If it is so easy to make Mexico pay for the wall, (not yet talking about the cost of maintaining), why would the President put the government to hostage by shutting it down? 

 

Why not make Mexico pay for the wall? Why shutdown the government? 

 

And somehow someone managed to point fingers to the Democrats when the Congress and WH are of the same party (Republican) when the Shutdown started? Derailed train of logic it seemed. 

1. Mexico can and will pay for the wall. As we have discussed on here numerous times the thing that would be the easiest way to do this is a tax on remittances sent abroad. 

 

The funding needs to be appropriated before the construction can start because people need to be paid. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

21 minutes ago, abum said:

I know for sure Contractors of Gov wont get back-pay. but Gov employees, according to a number of news outlets i read, will get backpay (though maybe a tiny few said they wont- but did not read the exact detail).

If you go through and read through here from posts from me and @NikLR who actually have experience working for the USG then you would see that Yes, more than likely GS workers will get backpay and more than likely Contractors too. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

17 minutes ago, refugee said:

New hires also will not get pay. Some of those folks have quit there jobs.

New hires won't get pay you are correct. I have also seen on a forum for us Federal workers that people are being on boarded even during the shutdown and working without pay. But this is the price they have to pick when coming to the Feds. 

[abum 324]

24 minutes ago, refugee said:

New hires also will not get pay. Some of those folks have quit there jobs.

It is sad when reading the stories of affected Gov workers and contractors that they will have to defer payment for rent, loans, and might have credit ratings affected due to this and yet, someone was PROUD to trigger the issue

 

"THE PRESIDENT: I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work. I will take the mantle of shutting down.

HOUSE SPEAKER-DESIGNATE PELOSI: That is (inaudible).

THE PRESIDENT: And I’m going to shut it down for border security.

SENATE MINORITY LEADER SCHUMER: But we believe you shouldn’t shut it down.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay. Thank you very much everybody. Thank you."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/12/11/read-full-transcript-meeting-between-trump-pence-pelosi-and-schumer/ydozGoydBzB946pWLP3U1J/story.html?fbclid=IwAR1gDGSn3wD62u0tscagJB_dAu_VTvFMVF47BBzkvZfkUvgoJR3TQ8G9daU

[abum 324]

11 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

1. Mexico can and will pay for the wall. As we have discussed on here numerous times the thing that would be the easiest way to do this is a tax on remittances sent abroad. 

 

The funding needs to be appropriated before the construction can start because people need to be paid. 

in my comment that you responded to, i have already countered your logic here  - still i will entertain it, can you show me the plans the Republicans had come up with, potential bills that gets full Republican supports that will cause a sovereign nation to pay and fund the wall? not just speculations from forums, but a concrete plan as this is already 2 years since the inauguration.

 

If it is SO EASY, why not get the funds first from Mexico instead of holding Gov to hostage with 800,000 people are directly affected (their livelihood, credit score etc). Again, the president is already serving half of his current term - where are the plans to make mexico pay since it is so easy?

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

2 minutes ago, abum said:

in my comment that you responded to, i have already countered your logic here  - still i will entertain it, can you show me the plans the Republicans had come up with, potential bills that gets full Republican supports that will cause a sovereign nation to pay and fund the wall? not just speculations from forums, but a concrete plan as this is already 2 years since the inauguration.

 

If it is SO EASY, why not get the funds first from Mexico instead of holding Gov to hostage with 800,000 people are directly affected (their livelihood, credit score etc). Again, the president is already serving half of his current term - where are the plans to make mexico pay since it is so easy?

Because the Dems won't even work to do anything in regards to a border wall at all. So nice try. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

9 minutes ago, abum said:

It is sad when reading the stories of affected Gov workers and contractors that they will have to defer payment for rent, loans, and might have credit ratings affected due to this and yet, someone was PROUD to trigger the issue

 

"THE PRESIDENT: I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work. I will take the mantle of shutting down.

HOUSE SPEAKER-DESIGNATE PELOSI: That is (inaudible).

THE PRESIDENT: And I’m going to shut it down for border security.

SENATE MINORITY LEADER SCHUMER: But we believe you shouldn’t shut it down.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay. Thank you very much everybody. Thank you."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/12/11/read-full-transcript-meeting-between-trump-pence-pelosi-and-schumer/ydozGoydBzB946pWLP3U1J/story.html?fbclid=IwAR1gDGSn3wD62u0tscagJB_dAu_VTvFMVF47BBzkvZfkUvgoJR3TQ8G9daU

That's funny right there because Schumer shuts down the Federal Government back in 2017 over the DACA "Dreamers". He is then given a Immigration bill that he can help pass through the Senate that would cover the originally Dreamers and even more than original number. He then has all the Dems vote No on the bill and against national security but some it's Trump's fault. 

[NikLR 13,232]

1 hour ago, Randyandyuni said:

if the family you speak of in West Berlin is here legally then I am all for them bringing in their East Berlin relatives 

Ah but they werent allowed. 

 

55 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

I don't mean to be unsympathetic towards your situation. I do have sympathy for you and others in this situation. My brother who is in the military (along with his wife) faced the same thing during the Obama shutdown. They had no income during that time. Let me be blunt though. There is no such thing as complete stability no matter what your job is or even if you run your own business. That is especially so for government jobs where things can change overnight at the whim of a politician or group of politicians. I know I could be laid off tomorrow and my employer has no obligation to give me any notice as unlikely as it is to happen.

 

The only form of stability comes with having money and resources set aside for tough times. My brother learned this during the Obama shutdown and he is the one who convinced my wife and I to set up an emergency fund of 6 months of expenses a little over a year ago. It wasn't easy. We both worked so much overtime we basically lived at work. If you can't get overtime take a second job short term if you have to. It was a sacrifice. But it was only a short term sacrifice. Very few things worth doing are easy but I'm telling you this is worth doing. There is nothing like the peace of mind you get having $20-$30k (depending on your expenses maybe more) in the bank for emergencies. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say so I in no way fault you for not having enough savings right now. However I hope you will consider it for the future. I really wish you the best and hope this nonsense ends soon so it has the least impact on you family possible. 

 

To a certain degree I agree. I knew a guy who worked for the state doing highway construction. He sat on a stool all day holding a stop sign and got paid $40 an hour plus great benefits. My wife on the other hand is a state employee working at a veterans home. In my opinion she is overworked and under paid and is regularly required to work 16 hour shifts sometimes with only 15 minutes notice and as little as 8 hours in between shifts. The health insurance is great though.

 

I think you read some false information then because if you put in the hours you will eventually get back pay. No one is being required to work for free.

I dont need you to tell me how to save for hard times.  Thanks. We know.  This isnt our first rodeo

[abum 324]

8 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Because the Dems won't even work to do anything in regards to a border wall at all. So nice try. 

Funny as well, for the Repeal ACA / Obamacare, we could at least see something being done by the Republicans (even when the Democrats did not agree to it), though even when the Congress is with House Republicans, no bill managed to pass through BUT there were at lease some effort.

 

For making Mexico paying for the wall , excuse like this is being given
"Because the Dems won't even work to do anything in regards to a border wall at all."

 

But if that logic stands, then Mexico will forever not pay for the wall ( you know because Republicans did not come up with any measures to force Mexico, just because the Dems wont do anything with the wall),
 

so why would you even say Mexico will pay for the wall if you believe with your own logic?

[abum 324]

12 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

That's funny right there because Schumer shuts down the Federal Government back in 2017 over the DACA "Dreamers". He is then given a Immigration bill that he can help pass through the Senate that would cover the originally Dreamers and even more than original number. He then has all the Dems vote No on the bill and against national security but some it's Trump's fault. 

last time i checked, Senate and House , and WH were controlled by the same party, and it was not the Democrats. And yet we see repeal ACA bill and all the alternatives failed. 

 

And this Shutdown has been proudly done by, the President. 

 

Maybe we should see what Trump had said back in 2013 regarding the failure of then-President causing the shutdown - and who should get fired in that event.  (counting all the days of the shutdown during this current President, it already surpassed the days of the shutdown back in 2013).

Edited January 7, 2019 by abum

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Just now, abum said:

Funny as well, for the Repeal ACA / Obamacare, we could at least see something being done by the Republicans (even when the Democrats did not agree to it), though even when the Congress is with House Republicans, no bill managed to pass through BUT there were at lease some effort.

 

For making Mexico paying for the wall , excuse like this is being given
"Because the Dems won't even work to do anything in regards to a border wall at all."

 

But if that logic stands, then Mexico will forever not pay for the wall ( you know because Republicans did not come up with any measures to force Mexico, just because the Dems wont do anything with the wall),
 

so why would you even say Mexico will pay for the wall if you believe with your own logic?

You really can tell you are living in the Bay area because your brain must be muddled by the vagrant poop. 

 

I do believe that the US will be refunded the money(as I said all along on here) by remittances and by helping stem the flood of illegals/drugs across the Southern border. If we can cut down on 5% of what we pay for illegals every year then the wall will be paid for by itself within 2 years. That's even without having to tax remittances to other countries. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, abum said:

last time i check, Senate and House , and WH were controlled by the same party, and it was no the Democrats. And yet we see repeal ACA bill and all the alternatives failed. 

And this Shutdown has been proudly done by, the President. 

Maybe we should see what Trump had said back in 2013 regarding the failure of then-President causing the shutdown - and who should get fired in that event.  (counting all the days of the shutdown during this current President, it already surpassed the days of the shutdown back in 2013).

You are correct the Senate did not pass the bill that the House passed last year because it needed 60 votes to pass which they did not get. Republicans at the time had 52 votes so they would need 8 votes by the Dems to pass the bill if the Republicans voted as a block. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Cyberfx1024

[abum 324]

Just now, Cyberfx1024 said:

You really can tell you are living in the Bay area because your brain must be muddled by the vagrant poop. 

 

I do believe that the US will be refunded the money(as I said all along on here) by remittances and by helping stem the flood of illegals/drugs across the Southern border. If we can cut down on 5% of what we pay for illegals every year then the wall will be paid for by itself within 2 years. That's even without having to tax remittances to other countries. 

 

sure you believe so, but i had just shown you how your own logic failed you.

 

And to date, I see no effort from the WH, or the Republicans for making Mexico pay for it, even after half of the sitting president's term.

No effort = not gonna happen ever (but unfortunately and sadly some still believe that rhetoric of Mexico paying for it).

 

[refugee 169]

9 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

You are correct the Senate did not pass the bill that the House passed last year because it needed 60 votes to pass which they did not get. Republicans at the time had 52 votes so they would need 8 votes by the Dems to pass the bill if the Republicans voted as a block. 

The truth is, the Republican Senate passed a billed, the president promised to sign, and he reneged. 

Why should Mitch McConnell and team put their necks out when the President cannot articulate what he will commit to?

Edited January 7, 2019 by refugee

[abum 324]

22 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

You are correct the Senate did not pass the bill that the House passed last year because it needed 60 votes to pass which they did not get. Republicans at the time had 52 votes so they would need 8 votes by the Dems to pass the bill if the Republicans voted as a block. 

And please do not try to re-write the history - the bills did not get even 100% of Republican support.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_repeal_the_Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#115th_Congress_(2017–2018)


 

Quote

On January 12, 2017, the Senate voted 51 to 48 to pass an FY2017 budget resolution, S.Con.Res. 3, that contained language allowing the repeal of the Affordable Care Act through the budget reconciliation process, which disallows a filibuster in the Senate.^{[33][34][35][36][1]} In spite of efforts during the vote-a-rama (a proceeding in which each amendment was considered and voted upon for about 10 minutes each until all 160 were completed) that continued into the early hours of the morning, Democrats could not prevent "the GOP from following through on its repeal plans."^[35][37]

 

On January 20, 2017, Donald Trump was sworn in as President of the United States. Trump and many Republicans have vowed to repeal and replace Obamacare.^[38] President Trump signed an executive order on January 20, 2017, his first day in office, that according to then White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer would "ease the burden of Obamacare as we transition from repeal and replace". Spicer would not elaborate further when asked for more details.^[39][40][41]

 

On March 6, 2017, House Republicans announced their replacement for the ACA, the American Health Care Act.^[42] The bill was withdrawn on March 24, 2017 after it was certain that the House would fail to garner enough votes to pass it.^[43] The result was in-fighting within the Republican Party.^[44]

 

On May 4, 2017, the United States House of Representatives voted to pass the American Health Care Act (and thereby repeal most of the Affordable Care Act) by a narrow margin of 217 to 213, sending the bill to the Senate for deliberation.^[50] The Senate indicated they would write their own version of the bill, instead of voting on the House version.^[51] On June 22, the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 was unveiled.

 

On July 25, 2017, the United States Senate voted to proceed to debate on the American Health Care Act. The Senate voted 50-50, largely along party lines with the Republicans for and the Democrats against proceeding, requiring Vice President Pence to cast the tie-breaking vote. Republican Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska crossed the aisle to vote against the motion.^[52]

 

On July 27, 2017, the Health Care Freedom Act, also known as the "skinny repeal", was introduced. This bill was defeated 49–51, with Republican senators Susan Collins, John McCain, and Lisa Murkowski voting against it along with all the Democrats and Independents.^[53]

 

On September 13, 2017, an amendment to the American Health Care Act, commonly known as Graham-Cassidy, was submitted. The bill was sponsored by Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, with Bill Cassidy of Louisiana as a co-sponsor.^[54] A spokesman for the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that a vote was planned to occur before September 30th, which was the deadline to pass bills under budget reconciliation.^[55][56][57] Rand Paul and John McCain indicated that they would vote against the bill.^[58] Ultimately, McConnell announced on September 26th that the Senate would not vote on the Graham-Cassidy bill.^[59]