Building a Wall on our Southern Border [merged]

[Ban Hammer 13,502]

10 hours ago, Russel1995 said:

live somewhere for 10 years, its your home. legal or not.

 

 

squatter's rights?

[Ban Hammer 13,502]

7 hours ago, Russel1995 said:

A wall can be dug under.. (as it already has),  flown over (as it is)  and sailed around (also currently done).

 

Personal can be moved.  a wall can not.  again, majority of illegals entering come on legal visas and overstay.

 

many do enter the border through the front door. by being smuggled... wall wont srop this again, personel and more posts will..

 

Building a wall wont stop the desperate.  and it will be wasted money.  at least if the personel dont work you can replace them for more effective personel.

 

and dont think democrats dont want to secure the borders, they simply dont want to waste money on a way that will be maybe 10% effective... until everyone who cant get a visitor visa just goes under the wall through new tunnels. the wall will be maybe 1% 

first you must understand what a wall is.  let's take the military definition here, from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstacles_to_troop_movement

 

Quote

Obstacles to troop movement represent either natural, human habitat originated, constructed, concealed obstacles, or obstructive impediments to movement of military troops and their vehicles, or to their visibility. By impeding strategic, operational or tactical manoeuvre, the obstacle represents an added barrier between opposing combat forces, and therefore prevent achievement of objectives and goals specified in the operational planning schedule. The constructed obstacles are used as an aid to defending a position or area as part of the general defensive plan of the commander. The obstacles that originate from the human habitat can be converted by troops into constructed obstacles by either performing additional construction, or executing demolitions to obstruct movement over the transport network, to create a choke point, or to deny traversing of an area to the enemy. The natural obstacles can be used defensively by securing a more difficult to breach defensive position by for example securing a flank on terrain that is deemed impossible to traverse, thus denying the enemy an ability to close into combat range of direct fire weapons.

yes, a wall can be dug under, etc etc.   that is time and labor intensive

any barrier will channel movement of those wishing to cross to another area where manpower can be concentrated to capture them. 

additionally, ground penetrating radar can detect tunnels and some sensors can detect digging.

i believe it will cut down considerably on the flow of drugs and illegal border crossings into our country.  furthermore, the real concern

to me is that it is not just central/south americans being caught - there are nationals of countries that have used terrorism against us

in the past and will use such against us in the future too.

 

 

[Dashinka 24,752]

14 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

first you must understand what a wall is.  let's take the military definition here, from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstacles_to_troop_movement

 

yes, a wall can be dug under, etc etc.   that is time and labor intensive

any barrier will channel movement of those wishing to cross to another area where manpower can be concentrated to capture them. 

additionally, ground penetrating radar can detect tunnels and some sensors can detect digging.

i believe it will cut down considerably on the flow of drugs and illegal border crossings into our country.  furthermore, the real concern

to me is that it is not just central/south americans being caught - there are nationals of countries that have used terrorism against us

in the past and will use such against us in the future too.

 

 

This reminds me of my visits to the Korean DMZ.  The DPRK has dug, or more specifically blasted, a few tunnels under the DMZ, I can imagine the amount of labor involved and who knows how many lives were lost to create those tunnels, but in the spirit of capitalism, the South Koreans turned them into tourist attractions and are making money from the DPRK labor.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

12 hours ago, Russel1995 said:

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/

 

there is how estimates of illegal population are done.. again.. on a decline since 2007..  12million in 2007 to 10.6 million in 2016.  90% confidence interval and based off US Census Bureau data.

 

 

I am absolutely not quite wrong.  illegal immigrants can not avoid sales tax (they probably pay more than you since they keep more of their paycheck if not paying income taxes), and usually also "help" pay real estate taxes. 

Many also argue they will pay taxes on their income as it is a requirement for proof if they wish to attempt to become a citizen in the future (estimated 50% do those by taxes sent in from ITN and fake SSNs).  here's the law if you wish to read.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/744/text

https://www.thoughtco.com/illegal-immigrants-and-tax-estimates-3321604 - small article on it.  I am more than certain we spend more money on lazy Americans than illegals.   Id rather have my share of taxes used for welfare go to illegals than the lazy Americans who just don't want to work and do the bare minimum to obtain welfare. (the ones I know are all behind Trump, I guess sticking the blame on others makes them feel better)

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/

 

 

Work with them and allow them to submit their asylum cases as our Constitution allows.  Fix the immigration processes that are in place so people wouldn't have to wait so long to enter legally, which really discourages it.

 

As for border, add more border patrol.  Add more drones, it will create a lot more employment than a pointless wall that will be like the current walls in place already, have shown to be ineffective with keeping drugs out of the country. (note, the Cartel de Gulfo HQ is across the border from Brownsville Texas, strange they're still active and HQ is that close to the U.S)

 

What's the big issue if someone wants to better their family and many times, their kids lives?  Many say they will do everything for their children, but when someone hikes across the country from a very poor, life-threatening condition to better the life of them and their children, they get bashed.  lol, ok.

 

P.S again, majority of illegal immigrants come on visa and let them expire. a wall can't stop that. and 2/3rds of current illegals have been here for over 10 years.   Wall wont deport anyone, it may prevent a small number from entering, but anyone inside the country is still here.  Hiring increased personal for ICE, Customs, Border patrol, etc. would be far more effective in achieving this walls goal.

 

 

Should also note my fiancés brother is an tax paying "immigrant" using an ITN (Hopes to earn a place under DREAM act, brought by their father at age 13) but I'm glad I'm not only using him for my claim of them paying taxes

 

 

And again.... Trump had the power of senate, house, and white house for 2 years... if his wall is going to be "that" effective why isn't it already being built?  Because even some republicans doubt it.

Yes, I know how the estimates are done.  Still don’t agree with their accuracy.  

 

Unauthorized Immigrants (U)

=

Survey, Total Foreign Born

–

Estimated Lawful Immigrant Population

 

This assumes that L & F are somehow accurate, but I call BS on that.  L perhaps is close; there is no way anyone can say what F is with any sort of certainty.  It changes daily, but I doubt it’s declining.  Why would anyone admit on a survey that they are illegal?  Answer: they wouldn’t.  If I were an illegal and ever got a survey like that, it would immediately go in the trash.  And speaking of such surveys... have YOU ever gotten one in the mail, or on the phone?   I know I never have.  

 

I said illegals pay sales tax (everyone does).  But they most certainly do NOT pay more than I do.  When you consider that 20-30% of the average American income goes straight to the government, plus some to the state.  And then we turn around and pay sales tax.  

 

As for an illegal paying income taxes “to become a citizen in the future”, can you describe that path to citizenship for illegals?  

 

From your article:

Quote

Note: While California may have realized $2.7 billion from taxes paid by undocumented immigrants in 2010, a 2004 report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform showed that California spends over $10.5 billion annually on the education, health care and incarceration of its illegal immigrant population.

 

Another thing to take note of is how much money these illegals don’t pay in federal taxes, or any income taxes, is sent outside the US to support their families back home.  So that money exits the local economy to a foreign country.

 

I’m not saying the wall is a great idea, fiscally. People want to come, they will come, by crook if not by hook.  But drones won’t be very effective, either.  Those require boots on the ground to round up people who cross, in addition to the salaries of the thousands of extra people required to man them and apprehend them.  More bodies would probably be more effective than a wall, but those costs are forever, they won’t dwindle nor go away like a wall.

 

Quote

What's the big issue if someone wants to better their family and many times, their kids lives?  Many say they will do everything for their children, but when someone hikes across the country from a very poor, life-threatening condition to better the life of them and their children, they get bashed.  lol, ok.

Well, sure, it sounds good to say.  But what happens when it goes on unchecked?  What would happen to you or I if we went to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Canada, or France, and just decided to live there without permission?  Think we would be welcomed?  Or locked up and deported?

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

16 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

squatter's rights?

Exactly what I was thinking

[Neonred 3,636]

Funny thing, I was driving through Homestead FL today.  It's a town south of Miami with a majority Hispanic population and a large number of migrants because of the year round growing season.  Driving the main street, Krome Ave, I noticed on nearly every block there was an attorney.  Almost  every one of them had window advertising touting their "specialty".  Immigration and criminal defense for most of them.  No joke.  I wished I had taken pictures.

 

Made me wonder if there were some hidden message I was missing...

Edited January 1, 2019 by Neonred

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

3 minutes ago, Neonred said:

Funny thing, I was driving through Homestead FL today.  It's a town south of Miami with a majority Hispanic population and a large number of migrants because of the year round growing season.  Driving the main street, Krome Ave, I noticed on nearly every block there was an attorney.  Almost  every one of them had window advertising touting their "specialty".  Immigration and criminal defense for most of them.  No joke.  I wished I had taken pictures.

 

Made me wonder if there were some hidden message I was missing...

Here in the hood we have Pay Day loan, Lottery Stores, Title pawn, Beauty shops, and liquor stores on every block. The dollar Generals get robbed once a week 

[TBoneTX 46,041]

8 hours ago, Neonred said:

on nearly every block there was an attorney.  Almost  every one of them had window advertising touting their "specialty".  Immigration and criminal defense for most of them.

Outside the USCIS building in north Houston are many lawyers' offices, all advertising "immigration" and "deportation" services (in Spanish).  Prime location is the small strip-center across the street.

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

In my area of Dallas,  where there is a high number of Illegal aliens. You see places that sell car insurance, it says "No Driver Licenses Need For Auto Liability Inusrance"

 

 

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 7:15 AM, Russel1995 said:

A wall can be dug under.. (as it already has),  flown over (as it is)  and sailed around (also currently done).

 

Personal can be moved.  a wall can not.  again, majority of illegals entering come on legal visas and overstay.

 

many do enter the border through the front door. by being smuggled... wall wont srop this again, personel and more posts will..

 

Building a wall wont stop the desperate.  and it will be wasted money.  at least if the personel dont work you can replace them for more effective personel.

 

and dont think democrats dont want to secure the borders, they simply dont want to waste money on a way that will be maybe 10% effective... until everyone who cant get a visitor visa just goes under the wall through new tunnels. the wall will be maybe 1% 

We the USA have tried all kind of thing to stop Illegal Immigration form crossing the border and entering illegally. So far nothing has worked.  You want to keep throwing money to do it the same way they have been doing it since the 1980's.

 

Build the Wall, let see what happens.  I thought you were a Hope and Change type of person

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

36 minutes ago, Chris Duffy said:

In my area of Dallas,  where there is a high number of Illegal aliens. You see places that sell car insurance, it says "No Driver Licenses Need For Auto Liability Inusrance"

My wife got hit by someone that had that type of insurance(Not her fault) and let me tell you it was horrible dealing with them. I tried dealing with them for 2 1/2 weeks on my own and they still had not taken a statement from the driver yet because "they needed a Chinese Interpreter in order to take his statement". I finally just paid my deductible and had my insurance deal with them, which I got back after almost a year when they finally paid my insurance company. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Cyberfx1024

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

5 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

My wife got hit by someone that had that type of insurance(Not her fault) and let me tell you it was horrible dealing with them. I tried dealing with them for 2 1/2 weeks on my own and they still had not taken a statement from the driver yet because "they needed a Chinese Interpreter in order to take his statement". I finally just paid my deductible and had my insurance deal with them, which I got back after almost a year when they finally paid my insurance company. 

That is what we do here, Let your insurance deal with it.  That is what you pay them for.

 

They will eventually get it straightened out

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

8 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

My wife got hit by someone that had that type of insurance(Not her fault) and let me tell you it was horrible dealing with them. I tried dealing with them for 2 1/2 weeks on my own and they still had not taken a statement from the driver yet because "they needed a Chinese Interpreter in order to take his statement". I finally just paid my deductible and had my insurance deal with them, which I got back after almost a year when they finally paid my insurance company. 

My x wife about 15 years ago was driving home from work in Dallas, A guy in van ran red light hit her,  and then pulled over tried to drive off and hit another person, and then finally someone stepped up and grabbed his keys out of the ignition and threw them.  

 

I got to pay for fixing her car and her medical, thankfully it was only a broke toe.  They guy had no insurance and no Driver Licenses, wasn't any way to go after him. I am sure he was back driving on Monday

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, Chris Duffy said:

That is what we do here, Let your insurance deal with it.  That is what you pay them for.

They will eventually get it straightened out

Since it wasn't my wife's fault I tried to deal with it initially that was until my car sat in a tow card racking up fees that they didn't want to pay for until they acknowledged fault, which at 1 week I got it out using my roadside assistance plan. So I forked over the money for the deductible $1k to have everything taken care of and went on from there. What sucked is we had a paid off car that wasn't worth more than $3k but ran really good. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

On 12/31/2018 at 4:53 AM, Russel1995 said:

live somewhere for 10 years, its your home. legal or not.

 

Obviously not a issue to the majority of the voters of the 2016 election, majority of America.

 

He also stated lack of securing the border.  Which is far more effective economically to increase personal along the border and create more posts along the border.  Re using drones from the war in Afghanistan has already been proven to be more effective in stopping illegal immigrants from crossing on foot than a wall.

 

I'm all for securing the border, but lets not do it in the "I'm sick of looking at you" type of way.

Try renting an apartment for 10 years then not paying rent for 2 months and tell me if its still your home 😂