udge rules Obamacare unconstitutional, endangering coverage for 20 million

[Lil bear 4,201]

1 hour ago, jg121783 said:

If that's the case answer my question. Name a single government program that has been managed in an efficient and cost effective manner.

Australian universal coverage to all citizens and permanent residents.. the Australian Medicare system.. funded by an income based levy and taxes, supported by an optional private health insurance system which allows people to use private rather than public health services, thus releasing Medicare dollars and public hospital beds for those services. Medical care and health services are not insurer driven. Best quality care and available to ALL.

[Boiler 45,486]

53 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

What do you know of the medical liability indemnification for the NHS? In a brief reading, it appears that people cannot sue individual doctors for malpractice, but rather they sue the NHS.  I am not sure how that works, but it does seem it would free the individual doctors from paying for very high malpractice insurance coverage.

I believe the NHS indemnifies for NHS work but they would still need Medical Malpractice for private treatment.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Just get rid of the insurance companies and the for profit nature of health care, in the US system saving lives is not the number one priority, its money.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, JimandChristy said:

Just get rid of the insurance companies and the for profit nature of health care, in the US system saving lives is not the number one priority, its money.

Then who would go to medical school? What do you think attracts people to become doctors and to perform at their best?

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 minute ago, Satisfied said:

Then who would go to medical school? What do you think attracts people to become doctors and to perform at their best?

To help and save people? You do realize most people who become doctors don't do it purely because of money but because of their altruistic nature.

[Crazy Cat 41,845]

2 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Just get rid of the insurance companies and the for profit nature of health care, in the US system saving lives is not the number one priority, its money.

Emergency health care is guaranteed...payment or not.......

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 minute ago, missileman said:

Emergency health care is guaranteed...payment or not.......

It is but then who pays the bill?

Edited December 16, 2018 by JimandChristy

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

16 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

To help and save people? You do realize most people who become doctors don't do it purely because of money but because of their altruistic nature.

Maybe in the self-imagined utopia in which you find yourself abiding.  But in the real world, people mostly do it for the promise of making money.  If what you said were true, then why do doctors charge for their services?

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

5 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Define crisis? Has anyone ever copied the US health care system? Twice the money for worse health? 

For once I agree. We spend the highest amount of GDP of any country on Medical care and have almost 3rd world outcomes. Something broke 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

39 minutes ago, missileman said:

Emergency health care is guaranteed...payment or not.......

Yes it is and is paid  for by the public and is the most expensive/ least efficient care on the planet. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

3 hours ago, jg121783 said:

If that's the case answer my question. Name a single government program that has been managed in an efficient and cost effective manner.

Us military for the most part. OSHA has saved 100s of 1000s lives and injuries thru the years,The EPA has stopped the dumping of dangerous chemicals into our waters and pollutants into the air we breathe. The FDA has done an effective job making sure our food supply doesn't kill us and that manufactures disclose what is in our food. The FAA and DOT has made sure air travel is one of the safest forms of travel available. The national parks service preserves and operates many of our National treasures. 

Just a few examples

 

 

 

 

 

[yuna628 9,676]

36 minutes ago, Satisfied said:

Maybe in the self-imagined utopia in which you find yourself abiding.  But in the real world, people mostly do it for the promise of making money.  If what you said were true, then why do doctors charge for their services?

No doctor I have ever known has ever gone into practice in the interest of making money. If anything doctors often take a loss. They charge money so that they can keep their practices usually afloat and pay their employees.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

44 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

No doctor I have ever known has ever gone into practice in the interest of making money. If anything doctors often take a loss. They charge money so that they can keep their practices usually afloat and pay their employees.

No, just no.  If they “often take a loss”, they would not stay in business, period.  Yes, there is a metric butt-ton of debt associated with becoming a doctor, no argument there.  And yes, doctors sometimes take a loss on patients who don’t pay.  While there may be a desire to help people inside them, the money is also a draw.  Just as it is for lawyers, pilots, and any other high-paying career field.

[jg121783 3,915]

1 hour ago, JimandChristy said:

To help and save people? You do realize most people who become doctors don't do it purely because of money but because of their altruistic nature.

I think most are motivated by helping people. But most of them would like to earn a decent living while doing so. Most of them spend up to $100k or more and give up at least 8 years of their life learning how to be doctor. I have no problem with skilled doctors making good money. If someone is cutting my chest open to operate on my heart you better believe I eant them to be paid well. Just like when I get on a plane. I would hope the captain and flight crew are paid well. Its normal to be paid well when you have useful and even life saving skills that most others don't have.

 

I agree that we have a massively screwed up health care system. I have my own ideas on how to fix it and I don't believe anyone on the left or right has the correct solution. The only politician I have heard that even comes close to my idea is Rand Paul. I heard him once talk about how we need to concentrate more on preventing illness than treating it. For example a healthcare plan may include a gym membership or nutritional supplements to help prevent illness and promote well being. That is only part of the issue here though. I don't want to get into it too much in depth here but one of the biggest problems is big pharma which gained more power from the left via Obamcare and from the right both before and after Obamacare with other legislation. If you didn't notice I blame both parties for this mess.

 

My solution would involve some government intervention at a reduced level and would shift their role from paying for health care to regulating big pharma, hospital corporations, insurance companies, ect. One of the biggest problems is price gouging mostly by big pharma and to a lesser extent hospitals. When you buy a prescription in the US that costs 4 times as much as it costs in Canada when it is manufactured in the US and shipped to Canada you know there is price gouging going on. When you get billed $20 for a bandage at a hospital you know there is price gouging. The amount a doctor gets paid is a very small part of a much larger equation. Sometimes the hospital gets more money for a doctor's services than the doctor does. If we simply concentrated on preventative care and regulating the medical industry to prevent price gouging that would solve a majority of the problems with our health care system. I agree we need the government involved but going totally socialist with our health care system is the wrong direction. I would rather have the government regulating companies to keep prices reasonable than have them managing massive amounts of money. That's just asking for problems.

 

41 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Us military for the most part. OSHA has saved 100s of 1000s lives and injuries thru the years,The EPA has stopped the dumping of dangerous chemicals into our waters and pollutants into the air we breathe. The FDA has done an effective job making sure our food supply doesn't kill us and that manufactures disclose what is in our food. The FAA and DOT has made sure air travel is one of the safest forms of travel available. The national parks service preserves and operates many of our National treasures. 

Just a few examples

 

 

 

 

 

I agree the military is a necessity but do you really believe they are good at managing money after a recent audit uncovered that the Pentagon doesn't know what happened to trillions of dollars? 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

2 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

I think most are motivated by helping people. But most of them would like to earn a decent living while doing so. Most of them spend up to $100k or more and give up at least 8 years of their life learning how to be doctor. I have no problem with skilled doctors making good money. If someone is cutting my chest open to operate on my heart you better believe I eant them to be paid well. Just like when I get on a plane. I would hope the captain and flight crew are paid well. Its normal to be paid well when you have useful and even life saving skills that most others don't have.

 

I agree that we have a massively screwed up health care system. I have my own ideas on how to fix it and I don't believe anyone on the left or right has the correct solution. The only politician I have heard that even comes close to my idea is Rand Paul. I heard him once talk about how we need to concentrate more on preventing illness than treating it. For example a healthcare plan may include a gym membership or nutritional supplements to help prevent illness and promote well being. That is only part of the issue here though. I don't want to get into it too much in depth here but one of the biggest problems is big pharma which gained more power from the left via Obamcare and from the right both before and after Obamacare with other legislation. If you didn't notice I blame both parties for this mess.

 

My solution would involve some government intervention at a reduced level and would shift their role from paying for health care to regulating big pharma, hospital corporations, insurance companies, ect. One of the biggest problems is price gouging mostly by big pharma and to a lesser extent hospitals. When you buy a prescription in the US that costs 4 times as much as it costs in Canada when it is manufactured in the US and shipped to Canada you know there is price gouging going on. When you get billed $20 for a bandage at a hospital you know there is price gouging. The amount a doctor gets paid is a very small part of a much larger equation. Sometimes the hospital gets more money for a doctor's services than the doctor does. If we simply concentrated on preventative care and regulating the medical industry to prevent price gouging that would solve a majority of the problems with our health care system. I agree we need the government involved but going totally socialist with our health care system is the wrong direction. I would rather have the government regulating companies to keep prices reasonable than have them managing massive amounts of money. That's just asking for problems.

 

I agree the military is a necessity but do you really believe they are good at managing money after a recent audit uncovered that the Pentagon doesn't know what happened to trillions of dollars? 

Those over charges for pills and bandages is how hospitals make up for non-paying customers and providing pro-bono care for the indigent population