Pelosi: Democrats Are Not Going To Fund Trump's "Immoral" Border Wall

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Chris Duffy said:

Brother I live in reality, not statistics or research. 

So you live in anecdote I guess. That's not reality. 

 

The numbers have been provided. If you choose to ignore them, you can choose to continue to be ignorant on the subject if you like.

Edited December 10, 2018 by bcking

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

So you live in anecdote I guess. That's not reality. 

 

The numbers have been provided. If you choose to ignore them, you can choose to continue to be ignorant on the subject if you like.

I didn't read your link, I just know what I see and know. I have seen a few buddies or friends who have been deported to make it back to Dallas within weeks......

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Chris Duffy said:

I didn't read your link, I just know what I see and know. I have seen a few buddies or friends who have been deported to make it back to Dallas within weeks......

As I said, it's your choice to remain ignorant on the subject and to rely solely on anecdote.

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

6 minutes ago, bcking said:

As I said, it's your choice to remain ignorant on the subject and to rely solely on anecdote.

So if I read the article what will it say?  illegal crossing down to USA is down?  Yea

 

The USA is a land of law and rules, break them then you should be punished and not rewarded.

 

Trump represents what the average American thinks

 

The GOP even shot down immigration reform, only way I see getting widespread immigration laws changed and enforced is when Trump win the Whitehouse for his second term and the GOP takes back over both sides of congress

 

Too bad they can't call the GOP, the Trump Party but after 2020 that may be the way it is. And then we can get some type of handle on illegal immigration and over stays and employees cheating the system.

 

If people can't understand why Trump won, he represents what the average American thinks and wants,  he represents the common man in the USA.

 

 

[bcking 3,157]

7 hours ago, Chris Duffy said:

Trump represents what the average American thinks

Give your previous denial of "statistics and research", it's not surprising you don't understand what the word average means.

 

In your mind he represents the average of what? You and your buddies? Some imaginary constituency?

 

You can't know what the "average American thinks" without statistics, which you seem to reject. An average isn't based on anecdote. 

 

You can't claim some dramatic reason for why he won, but it certainly isn't because of what the "Average American thinks" without numbers to back that up.

 

 

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

20 minutes ago, bcking said:

Give your previous denial of "statistics and research", it's not surprising you don't understand what the word average means.

 

I suspect you are fairly educated, You do understand that statistics is only as good as the sample base you get your numbers from, like 9 out of 10 dentist recommends XXX brand toothpaste,  Yes that sample was pulled at the XXX convention

[bcking 3,157]

6 minutes ago, Chris Duffy said:

I suspect you are fairly educated, You do understand that statistics is only as good as the sample base you get your numbers from, like 9 out of 10 dentist recommends XXX brand toothpaste,  Yes that sample was pulled at the XXX convention

Ya sure so what sample do you have when you talk about average Americans?

 

I would actually read and review your statistics instead of just denying them because they don't confirm my anecdotal experience.

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

27 minutes ago, bcking said:

Give your previous denial of "statistics and research", it's not surprising you don't understand what the word average means.

 

In your mind he represents the average of what? You and your buddies? Some imaginary constituency?

 

You can't know what the "average American thinks" without statistics, which you seem to reject. An average isn't based on anecdote. 

 

You can't claim some dramatic reason for why he won, but it certainly isn't because of what the "Average American thinks" without numbers to back that up.

 

 

I am going to assume you not an American, I am the prototype American, When I travel the world I am treated like royalty just because I have long roots in the USA.  Many envy me, I am giving the upmost respect in my travels just simply because I was born in the USA.

 

Here is the numbers I have to "back that up"

 

That #'s is 45 as in Donald J Trump 45th President of the USA

 

[bcking 3,157]

The actual numbers from the 2016 election are as follows:

 

Trump - 62,979,626

Clinton - 65,844,610

 

So the only conclusion here is you really don't know what "average" means 🤦‍♂️

 

This doesn't deny or question Trump's victory, but his victory certainly wasn't because he captured the "average" American. At least not based on the sampling of the population during the 2016 election.

🤦‍♂️

Edited December 10, 2018 by bcking

[jg121783 3,918]

26 minutes ago, bcking said:

The actual numbers from the 2016 election are as follows:

 

Trump - 62,979,626

Clinton - 65,844,610

 

So the only conclusion here is you really don't know what "average" means 🤦‍♂️

 

This doesn't deny or question Trump's victory, but his victory certainly wasn't because he captured the "average" American. At least not based on the sampling of the population during the 2016 election.

🤦‍♂️

The popular vote in the 2016 election is irrelevant for a couple reasons. First of all it is the electoral college votes that decide the election not the popular vote. Secondly Trump ran his campaign on a strategy geared towards gaining electoral votes and not the popular vote. Had the rules been different and had Trump run his campaign on those different rules he may have won the popular vote. All I know is Trump draws tens of thousands to his speeches and has to turn thousands away with people waiting in line days before and Hillary can't even fill half of the smaller venues she speaks at and is now resorting to Groupon to bring people to her events. Couple that with the dominance of the republicans in 2016 and the democrats throwing everything they have at 2018 just to barely squeak by with a victory in the house and we can safely say Trump has the support of at least half of the voters in this country. 2018 was really failure of the republicans strategy more than success on the part of the democrats. Like I said the democrats threw everything they had at 2018 and still they are the minority party over all. Come 2020 people are going to be so tired of the impeachment bs the left is already pushing that I predict the house will return to the republicans.

[bcking 3,157]

11 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

The popular vote in the 2016 election is irrelevant for a couple reasons. First of all it is the electoral college votes that decide the election not the popular vote. Secondly Trump ran his campaign on a strategy geared towards gaining electoral votes and not the popular vote. Had the rules been different and had Trump run his campaign on those different rules he may have won the popular vote. All I know is Trump draws tens of thousands to his speeches and has to turn thousands away with people waiting in line days before and Hillary can't even fill half of the smaller venues she speaks at and is now resorting to Groupon to bring people to her events. Couple that with the dominance of the republicans in 2016 and the democrats throwing everything they have at 2018 just to barely squeak by with a victory in the house and we can safely say Trump has the support of at least half of the voters in this country. 2018 was really failure of the republicans strategy more than success on the part of the democrats. Like I said the democrats threw everything they had at 2018 and still they are the minority party over all. Come 2020 people are going to be so tired of the impeachment bs the left is already pushing that I predict the house will return to the republicans.

Sorry I think you entered the conversation part way.

 

I was in no way saying the popular vote was important for the election, and was in no way using it to contest or question the election.

 

I was ONLY using it to illustrate the only objective numbers we have to address the claim that the "average American" supports Trump. Using the term average suggests there are numbers to back it up, and there just aren't. We can't say that the average American doesn't support Trump either, but we certainly can't say they do. They best we have is how Americans voted overall, which was a majority not voting for Trump.

 

You can't "safely say" things like what you said in bold unless you actually have data to back it up. You can safely say it's your opinion, which is fine. But don't confuse your opinion with reality. They may be in line, but they may not.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by bcking

[Dashinka 24,609]

5 minutes ago, bcking said:

Sorry I think you entered the conversation part way.

 

I was in no way saying the popular vote was important for the election, and was in no way using it to contest or question the election.

 

I was ONLY using it to illustrate the only objective numbers we have to address the claim that the "average American" supports Trump. Using the term average suggests there are numbers to back it up, and there just aren't. We can't say that the average American doesn't support Trump either, but we certainly can't say they do. They best we have is how Americans voted overall, which was a majority not voting for Trump.

 

You can't "safely say" things like what you said in bold unless you actually have data to back it up. You can safely say it's your opinion, which is fine. But don't confuse your opinion with reality. They may be in line, but they may not.

 

Can you use the vote totals from 2016 for that purpose?  How do you factor in those that did not vote, or those that cannot legally vote, but are legally here?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

All I know is that somehow, some way, a candidate who had NO CHANCE of ever winning in 2016 (as told to us by nearly every media outlet and every poll during the time)... won.

 

I'll admit, I even bought into the hype.  I believed Hillary would win.  It nearly worked, what the media was trying to do.  But the one thing that sticks out in my mind is what a friend told me months before the election.  She had driven from CA to CT over a few days, and she told me she saw about 5 "vote Hillary" signs, and countless THOUSANDS of "vote Trump" signs.  She was confident that Americans overall wanted Trump.  Turns out she was right.  The numbers supported her theory, her own "informal poll", if you will.  Anecdote or statistic, she nailed it.

[bcking 3,157]

13 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Can you use the vote totals from 2016 for that purpose?  How do you factor in those that did not vote, or those that cannot legally vote, but are legally here?

That's why I said you can't say average did or did not.

 

The only numbers we have are for majority of Americans who voted. That doesn't tell you want the "Average American" thinks or wants. We don't know. We shouldn't pretend we know.

[bcking 3,157]

13 minutes ago, Satisfied said:

All I know is that somehow, some way, a candidate who had NO CHANCE of ever winning in 2016 (as told to us by nearly every media outlet and every poll during the time)... won.

 

I'll admit, I even bought into the hype.  I believed Hillary would win.  It nearly worked, what the media was trying to do.  But the one thing that sticks out in my mind is what a friend told me months before the election.  She had driven from CA to CT over a few days, and she told me she saw about 5 "vote Hillary" signs, and countless THOUSANDS of "vote Trump" signs.  She was confident that Americans overall wanted Trump.  Turns out she was right.  The numbers supported her theory, her own "informal poll", if you will.  Anecdote or statistic, she nailed it.

Sorry I wasn't trying to talk about the 2016 election here. He brought up that Trump won as evidence that the "Average American" supports him. That's just not true.

 

The majority who voted didn't vote for him

The voters who turned out may not even represent "Average Americans" because it's unlikely a random sampling.

 

The fact that he won has nothing to do with what the "Average American" wants. He won via the electoral college, not an average of American voters.

 

The best we could do is look at polls that take a "random sample", though I realize what people here think about polls so I won't bother to go into much detail. Meta-analysis of polls have fairly consistently indicated that below 50% of people approve of Trump. Is that an accurate account of "Average Americans"? It may not be, but it's certainly better than some random person's anecdotal opinion on an immigration forum.