Mexicans fear U.S. immigration plan

[GaryC 7]

Gary - this is hardly a definition of a gate crasher... and this (see text in red) is what I believe some people fear (xenophobia).

Mexican immigration occupies a complex position in the U.S. legal system and in U.S. public opinion. Immigration law has swung back and forth throughout the 20th century, at times welcoming Mexican immigrants and at other times slamming the door shut on them. The public reception of this immigrant group has also been unpredictable; Mexican immigrants have been able to make a place for themselves in communities across the United States, but frequently have had to battle hostile elements in those same communities to survive. In many ways, this push-and-pull dynamic continues today.

Mexican immigrants and their descendants now make up a significant portion of the U.S. population and have become one of the most influential social and cultural groups in the country. Mexican American culture will likely continue to shape U.S. life in language, politics, food, and daily living and will help define the nation's identity for a new century.

And will you STOP trying to make this some sort of a racist issue! They can bring their culture here when they come in legally! Frankly your really starting to piss me off with the insinuation that if I want the illegal immigrants to go home I am a racist or a xenophobe. This is about respecting the law. These people think that they can just ignore our laws if they don't like it. They can stick that idea where the sun does not shine!

[amwo 0]

I, myself, am quite tired of being called a racist because I am white.

What should we call a Mexican who went through the immigration process legally and disagrees with illegal immigration from Mexico?

[JoeMama 0]

I, myself, am quite tired of being called a racist because I am white.

What should we call a Mexican who went through the immigration process legally and disagrees with illegal immigration from Mexico?

I'm sure the label of "racist" progresses onto being a word of action, "prejudiced". I'm fairly tanned and that's the label I got stuck with on this thread.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm a swarthy racist, xenophobe, I guess. Enabling illegals as a protected class and making excuses for them as tho they don't know right from wrong isn't racist?

Let me get this straight, Steven. You're saying that the longer someone has been breaking the law, the more compassion we are to have for them? Do you think that will work with the IRS?

Just curious.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[natty bumppo 297]

Sorry....

better be careful people don't get the wrong idea about you ... especially with this thread still running

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69087

sorry couldn't resist ....

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Gary - this is hardly a definition of a gate crasher... and this (see text in red) is what I believe some people fear (xenophobia).

Mexican immigration occupies a complex position in the U.S. legal system and in U.S. public opinion. Immigration law has swung back and forth throughout the 20th century, at times welcoming Mexican immigrants and at other times slamming the door shut on them. The public reception of this immigrant group has also been unpredictable; Mexican immigrants have been able to make a place for themselves in communities across the United States, but frequently have had to battle hostile elements in those same communities to survive. In many ways, this push-and-pull dynamic continues today.

Mexican immigrants and their descendants now make up a significant portion of the U.S. population and have become one of the most influential social and cultural groups in the country. Mexican American culture will likely continue to shape U.S. life in language, politics, food, and daily living and will help define the nation's identity for a new century.

And will you STOP trying to make this some sort of a racist issue! They can bring their culture here when they come in legally! Frankly your really starting to piss me off with the insinuation that if I want the illegal immigrants to go home I am a racist or a xenophobe. This is about respecting the law. These people think that they can just ignore our laws if they don't like it. They can stick that idea where the sun does not shine!

The racism cry is all they have Gary.

[Ban Hammer 13,551]

Sorry....

better be careful people don't get the wrong idea about you ... especially with this thread still running

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69087

sorry couldn't resist ....

[natty bumppo 297]

Gary - this is hardly a definition of a gate crasher... and this (see text in red) is what I believe some people fear (xenophobia).

Mexican immigration occupies a complex position in the U.S. legal system and in U.S. public opinion. Immigration law has swung back and forth throughout the 20th century, at times welcoming Mexican immigrants and at other times slamming the door shut on them. The public reception of this immigrant group has also been unpredictable; Mexican immigrants have been able to make a place for themselves in communities across the United States, but frequently have had to battle hostile elements in those same communities to survive. In many ways, this push-and-pull dynamic continues today.

Mexican immigrants and their descendants now make up a significant portion of the U.S. population and have become one of the most influential social and cultural groups in the country. Mexican American culture will likely continue to shape U.S. life in language, politics, food, and daily living and will help define the nation's identity for a new century.

And will you STOP trying to make this some sort of a racist issue! They can bring their culture here when they come in legally! Frankly your really starting to piss me off with the insinuation that if I want the illegal immigrants to go home I am a racist or a xenophobe. This is about respecting the law. These people think that they can just ignore our laws if they don't like it. They can stick that idea where the sun does not shine!

The racism cry is all they have Gary.

they don't wish to be held accountable for breaking the law ... so they simply find a way to project their crime onto others

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

They have been and still are here against the law. They broke the law each and every day they went to work and they continue to do so going forward. They don't really give a ####### what the law is. Ain't their business because in all actuality, their above it. This bill makes that official. Often, they committed felonies in the process. Never mind. Forgiven. They cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year. That ain't gonna stop. They have no right to be here. None whatsoever. Yet they claim oherwise. And here they are to be treated better than your spouse or mine would if she had just stayed a year beyond her welcomeon any given visit prior to your petitioning for her w/o doing anyone any harm and without ever running into any other conflict with the law. If that doesn't outrage you, then there's nothing I can say.

It's a broken system for sure, but I don't project any emotional outrage I have over the current bureaucracy of the immigration process on Mexican immigrants - I just don't. It's also arguable whether the influx of Mexican immigrants is actually costing us monetarily. It's a convoluted mess. Historically, the US has benefitted from Third World Labor and continues to do so - I don't see that fact changing anytime soon. I don't blame the millions of Mexican immigrants who've been working here for several years for wanting legitimacy. As for future immigrants crossing over here, illegally - I don't see it stopping without addressing the economic and trade issues that triggered the huge influx over the last decade.

As for immigration policy in general - if companies want to sponsor low skilled laborers, there needs to be provisions to ensure those workers have opportunities for citizenship that aren't entirely dependent on their employer.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gary - this is hardly a definition of a gate crasher... and this (see text in red) is what I believe some people fear (xenophobia).

Mexican immigration occupies a complex position in the U.S. legal system and in U.S. public opinion. Immigration law has swung back and forth throughout the 20th century, at times welcoming Mexican immigrants and at other times slamming the door shut on them. The public reception of this immigrant group has also been unpredictable; Mexican immigrants have been able to make a place for themselves in communities across the United States, but frequently have had to battle hostile elements in those same communities to survive. In many ways, this push-and-pull dynamic continues today.

Mexican immigrants and their descendants now make up a significant portion of the U.S. population and have become one of the most influential social and cultural groups in the country. Mexican American culture will likely continue to shape U.S. life in language, politics, food, and daily living and will help define the nation's identity for a new century.

And will you STOP trying to make this some sort of a racist issue! They can bring their culture here when they come in legally! Frankly your really starting to piss me off with the insinuation that if I want the illegal immigrants to go home I am a racist or a xenophobe. This is about respecting the law. These people think that they can just ignore our laws if they don't like it. They can stick that idea where the sun does not shine!

Look, Gary - I'll say it one more time - I don't think you are racist or that most of those who don't want illegal immigrants from Mexico to be here are being racist, but you've got to look at all the factions behind the 'outrage'. There was a time when Americans were in outrage over the influx of Irish immigrants and much of that outrage was fueled by xenophobia. That factor is present right now with the influx of Mexican immigrants.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

They have been and still are here against the law. They broke the law each and every day they went to work and they continue to do so going forward. They don't really give a ####### what the law is. Ain't their business because in all actuality, their above it. This bill makes that official. Often, they committed felonies in the process. Never mind. Forgiven. They cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year. That ain't gonna stop. They have no right to be here. None whatsoever. Yet they claim oherwise. And here they are to be treated better than your spouse or mine would if she had just stayed a year beyond her welcomeon any given visit prior to your petitioning for her w/o doing anyone any harm and without ever running into any other conflict with the law. If that doesn't outrage you, then there's nothing I can say.

It's a broken system for sure, but I don't project any emotional outrage I have over the current bureaucracy of the immigration process on Mexican immigrants - I just don't.

It's not about a broken system. It's about the lack of respect for the law and the lack of enforcement that broke a system. Rewarding those that broke it is simply the wrong approach. And that approach sure isn't going to fix anything. If it would, we wouldn't be in this mess today as such "fix" was installed 20 some years ago with the exact same promises that are being made today. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is insane.

As for immigration policy in general - if companies want to sponsor low skilled laborers, there needs to be provisions to ensure those workers have opportunities for citizenship that aren't entirely dependent on their employer that companies pick up the entire cost of having foreign workers here. Health care and all.

There, fixed. See, once you focus on what's really important, the working conditions in the low-skilled sector of the US job market wouldn't erode the way they did thanks to illegal labor and their profiteers. There wouldn't be a need for this huge influx of folks from south of the border. A janitor in the US used to be able support him/herself and his/her family. As did a farmworker and a dishwasher. Not anymore. The increased availablity of illegal labor and the erosion of the working conditions in the sectors where they work go hand in hand. And that ain't no coincidence. It's the race to the bottom that big business is looking to fuel with this bill.

[keltic 1]

illegal immigrants pose more than just an economical threat... how many of what kind of communicable diseases are brought here, undocumented? for the first time that i know of, children in this country are now being immunized against hepatitis A... this is a disease that is rampant in some other countries but has been something that americans have not had to deal with on a widescale basis... how many cases of HIV are not being followed by the CDC (center for disease control) because they are being carried and potentially spread by undocumented immigrants? what about TB? i care about peoples health... tell me how its ok for USCs to be exposed unknowingly to these diseases? tell me why its ok for the illegal immigrants to carry these diseases and not have treatment (which should be obtained in their own country, not at the expense of the USC taxpayer), or are we supposed to support all the citizens of the world? how many people pay their neighbors healthcare expenses out of the kindness of their hearts? if we dont do it for our fellow USCs, why do you think we should be compelled to do it for mass quantities of ppl who scoff at our laws by breaking them from the moment they step foot on american soil and then DEMAND equal rights of USCs? are you willing to contract TB because someone is not being followed for treatment? do you think the illegal immigrants who carry these communicable diseases care about any USCs that will contract them? please note that i did not single out any one ethnicity... its a concern for anyone who does not get screened and documented when they cross our border

and what of criminals? without the appropriate background checks, how many rapists, murderers, drug dealers are flooding over our borders? we have plenty enough of our own, we dont need them from other countries... see the current backlash from the drug cartels against mexican law enforcement? dont want it to even be happening in other countries? want it to spread here? keep those borders unsecure and what will happen?

why is it ok for illegal immigrants to be effectively treated as slaves? why is it ok to exploit them for cheap labor? why arent the supporters for all these illegals concerned about how these companies are treating them? and what happens when they are all granted amnesty? then they become citizens and can demand a fair minimum wage... then there will only be MORE illegals to come and take their place... leaving even MORE unemployed USCs... will ppl then accuse them of being too lazy and not wanting the scuzzy jobs because they could then demand fair pay for it?

the companies who are profitting from all this need to be penalized... and harshly... so that there is no reward in continuing the behavior... if it raises how much i pay for a head of lettuce, so be it... and even more importantly, these other countries should take care of their own, instead of smuggling them off to america... and please note again, i am not singling out just one country

Edited May 20, 2007 by keltic

[keltic 1]

and i will add this to clarify before the flaming begins...

i am not saying that all illegal immigrants are diseased or criminals... im saying that if they are undocumented we dont know what is crossing our borders...

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Gary - this is hardly a definition of a gate crasher... and this (see text in red) is what I believe some people fear (xenophobia).

Mexican immigration occupies a complex position in the U.S. legal system and in U.S. public opinion. Immigration law has swung back and forth throughout the 20th century, at times welcoming Mexican immigrants and at other times slamming the door shut on them. The public reception of this immigrant group has also been unpredictable; Mexican immigrants have been able to make a place for themselves in communities across the United States, but frequently have had to battle hostile elements in those same communities to survive. In many ways, this push-and-pull dynamic continues today.

Mexican immigrants and their descendants now make up a significant portion of the U.S. population and have become one of the most influential social and cultural groups in the country. Mexican American culture will likely continue to shape U.S. life in language, politics, food, and daily living and will help define the nation's identity for a new century.

And will you STOP trying to make this some sort of a racist issue! They can bring their culture here when they come in legally! Frankly your really starting to piss me off with the insinuation that if I want the illegal immigrants to go home I am a racist or a xenophobe. This is about respecting the law. These people think that they can just ignore our laws if they don't like it. They can stick that idea where the sun does not shine!

The racism cry is all they have Gary.

they don't wish to be held accountable for breaking the law ... so they simply find a way to project their crime onto others

ding ding ding!!!!

[GaryC 7]

Look, Gary - I'll say it one more time - I don't think you are racist or that most of those who don't want illegal immigrants from Mexico to be here are being racist, but you've got to look at all the factions behind the 'outrage'. There was a time when Americans were in outrage over the influx of Irish immigrants and much of that outrage was fueled by xenophobia. That factor is present right now with the influx of Mexican immigrants.

Ok, your telling me that I am not personally a racist or a xenophobe but I am buying into the "outrage" fueled by others xenophobia? Thanks for your testament to my lack of ability to think for myself. I will say this one more time. My "outrage" has nothing to do with xenophobia or is it a reaction to other peoples xenophobia. We have 20 million people in this country that came here without any documentation, inspection or permission! I honestly don't care where they are from or why they are here! A country that cannot or will not protect it's own borders is in danger of loosing its sovereignty! Along with these people that are looking for work that you have so much "compassion" for there are also criminals and potentially terrorists. To just throw open the borders and let anyone waltz in is the worst kind of stupidity. Your misplaced compassion for these people is putting us in more danger. I am afraid it isn't me that is being misled by other peoples xenophobia or racism, its you that are being misled by this false sense of compassion. Others are using your sympathy for the plight of the illegals for their own ends. You are being duped.

What I want is simple and it is right. Anyone that wants to be in this country has to do it legally. Anyone that is here without permission should leave. What have you got against following the law? You do realize that your position is one of breaking the law? You do realize that what you are wanting is to allow someone that broke the law to be rewarded for it? It's an indefensible position and that is why you continue to play the race and xenophobia card to try and support it.