Mexicans fear U.S. immigration plan

[JoeMama 0]

There is nothing to stop the existence of prejudices, in general ... this is true. However, there is everything in the world you can do to stop specific prejudices in yourself.

Yes! Thank you Portlander! You added to what I was trying to add to the edit on my last post!

[Portlander 0]

In the year 2001, 9 out of every 10 new job openings for computer/IT were taken by H-1Bs, and despite record unemployment the INS issued 312,000 visas in 2002.

There is more going on here. The sole reason our economy is above water, and the sole reason our military has an advantage over everyone else is that we have a distinct technological advantge. Smart, educated people are critical to national security. If we take the smart people from other countries, we get to keep our technological advantage. We are simply trying to maintain the "Brain Drain".

[GaryC 7]

They are not in effect gate crashers, but more like invited guests to this country in the context of our historical relationship with Mexico. Calling them parasitic teeters on xenophobia because it's either you're angry that they're here without proper documentation or you're angry that they're here because they're affecting our quality of life. Otherwise, if it's the latter, then that would include ALL immigrants coming to America. Just what is the criteria for you to declare that some immigrants are parasitic and others aren't?

Invited guests? Invited by whom? Invited by business owners that are also breaking the law!

Calling them parasitic teeters on xenophobia because it's either you're angry that they're here without proper documentation or you're angry that they're here because they're affecting our quality of life.

Bingo!!!!!! But don't try to call me xenophobic. Like you I have a wife born in a different country and I dare say I have done a lot more world travel than you have. Your just trying to prop up your weak position with labels and it isn't going to fly. I am all for guest workers, immigrants and anyone else that want to share in the blessings of our country. JUST DO IT LEGALY!!!!!! Doesn't the fact that we have 20 million undocumented aliens in this country cause you any worry? If it doesn't then you don't understand the problem. We need to know who is here and what they are doing. It isn't xenophobia or paranoia. It's common sense.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They are not in effect gate crashers, but more like invited guests to this country in the context of our historical relationship with Mexico. Calling them parasitic teeters on xenophobia because it's either you're angry that they're here without proper documentation or you're angry that they're here because they're affecting our quality of life. Otherwise, if it's the latter, then that would include ALL immigrants coming to America. Just what is the criteria for you to declare that some immigrants are parasitic and others aren't?

Invited guests? Invited by whom? Invited by business owners that are also breaking the law!

Calling them parasitic teeters on xenophobia because it's either you're angry that they're here without proper documentation or you're angry that they're here because they're affecting our quality of life.

Bingo!!!!!! But don't try to call me xenophobic. Like you I have a wife born in a different country and I dare say I have done a lot more world travel than you have. Your just trying to prop up your weak position with labels and it isn't going to fly. I am all for guest workers, immigrants and anyone else that want to share in the blessings of our country. JUST DO IT LEGALY!!!!!! Doesn't the fact that we have 20 million undocumented aliens in this country cause you any worry? If it doesn't then you don't understand the problem. We need to know who is here and what they are doing. It isn't xenophobia or paranoia. It's common sense.

What I'm trying to get at, Gary, is that there IS a difference between the millions of undocumented workers that came here from our neighboring country of Mexico and immigrants in general. If you don't see a difference then we'll just keep going round and round on the issue. And the reality is - they're not going anywhere...and we will continue to have an influx of immigrants from Mexico coming here until we address the underlying causes (economic, trade). It's not like we're having an influx of Canadians crossing over here and why not? Because Canadians are more law abiding???

BTW, xenophobia is NOT equivalent to racism, nor was I suggesting you a racist or xenophobic per se. What I'm saying is that if you believe the Mexicans who are here and have been here for years are parasitic - that view IS xenophobic. It's a failure to recognize how all of us have benefitted from their presence here.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gary - this is hardly a definition of a gate crasher... and this (see text in red) is what I believe some people fear (xenophobia).

Mexican immigration occupies a complex position in the U.S. legal system and in U.S. public opinion. Immigration law has swung back and forth throughout the 20th century, at times welcoming Mexican immigrants and at other times slamming the door shut on them. The public reception of this immigrant group has also been unpredictable; Mexican immigrants have been able to make a place for themselves in communities across the United States, but frequently have had to battle hostile elements in those same communities to survive. In many ways, this push-and-pull dynamic continues today.

Mexican immigrants and their descendants now make up a significant portion of the U.S. population and have become one of the most influential social and cultural groups in the country. Mexican American culture will likely continue to shape U.S. life in language, politics, food, and daily living and will help define the nation's identity for a new century.

....

One more important piece of land changed hands in 1854, when the U.S. bought what is now southern Arizona and New Mexico from the Mexican government for $10 million. This land deal, known as the Gadsden Purchase, brought the U.S. a much-coveted railroad route, and helped open the West to further expansion.

With two strokes of a pen, the larger nation had expanded its size by one-third. And almost overnight, tens of thousands of Mexican citizens had become residents of the United States.

Under the treaty that ended the Mexican War, most of the Mexicans who lived in the new United States territories became U.S. citizens. The treaty also guaranteed their safety and property rights, "as if the [property] belonged to citizens of the U.S. according to the principles of the Constitution." In practice, however, the new territories were far from the centers of U.S. government, and these guarantees were not reliably enforced. By the end of the 19th century, many Mexican Americans had been deprived of their land, and found themselves living unprotected in an often hostile region.

....

For many Mexican immigrants, moving to the U.S. was not necessarily a one-time journey of permanent relocation. Since the distance was so short, Mexican citizens could return home relatively easily, and many did so--because of improved conditions in Mexico, because of family concerns, or because they had earned enough money to live more comfortably. In the 1910s and 1920s, it is estimated that more than 1 million Mexican immigrants returned to Mexico.

....

Other groups saw the growing Mexican immigrant population as a social problem and worked to eliminate what they saw as the negative aspects of Mexican American life. One school pamphlet, "Americanization through Homemaking," suggested that putting Mexican girls into sewing, cooking, and cleaning classes was the key to social harmony. "If we assimilate the countless number of Mexicans that cross our Southern border…we must begin at the basic structure of their social order--the

home."

This is just a slice of the not too distant history that many Americans either don't know or don't care to know. I think that's pathetic, given that we tout our historical achievements and never let anyone forget things that were detrimental to Americans.

http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/immig/mexican5.html

[Ban Hammer 13,551]

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

I'll try an analogy. Suppose a land owner never fenced in his land and his neighbor's cattle would graze on that land. Suppose this goes on for several generations and in fact the land owner benefits from the grazing to keep the brush on his land from growing out of control. The cattle help with seed germination, etc. Then one day, the land owner decides he's doesn't want his neighbor's cattle grazing on his land anymore. He tries to put up a fence, but land is so vast that it's impossible to keep the cattle out. Also, the herd has become dependent on the land and would suffer without access to that land.

It's not a clear cut case of exercising right of ownership (our land so f##k off).

There is a symbiotic relationship between us and the millions of undocumented, unskilled workers here from Mexico.

squatters rights, eh? still, the landowner was paying taxes in your analogy and thus retains his rights to it.

and why does it matter how long they've been here? does that somehow lessen the fact that they were illegal then and illegal now?

[Portlander 0]

Just heard George Bush on the radio talking about how the Immigration Reform bill would be a great victory for the Rule of Law ... I swear, half the things that come ou of his mouth are a direct contradiction to reality. Not circuitous "not the complete truth" like Clinton w/ Lewinsky, but 100% direct contradiction.

[Fandango 1,440]

Honestly, Steven...it's shocking how blind you are sometimes.

[amwo 0]

I feel that more liberals support illegal immigration than conservatives. If I weren't so lazy I would start a poll here.

Well LuckyStrike, let this BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL start that poll for ya!

"Take your tequila drinkin', can't-show-up-to-work cuz estoy borracho, "nobodee wan to do dis yob", wife-back-in-mejico-con-los-ninos cheatin' ### and gtfo!

Fuera mi pais, ahora! Y no se revuelta!" (amwo sticks boot up Jose's ###)

NOW CALL THIS NAPPY HEADED WHITE B*TCH HO A RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And tomorrow I will be having dinner with my LEGAL Peruvian friends. My friend's mother is here visiting and is making REAL ceviche. I tried to get a Peruvian wine for the occasion but no luck so I am bringing a nice Spanish wine. Note: if this bill goes into law, he will not be able to petition for his mom to come here. Neither will any of us.

(Now we can begin to give the visas to the people who are truly in need, those who are religiously, economically and politically persecuted? Please?)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

They have been and still are here against the law. They broke the law each and every day they went to work and they continue to do so going forward. They don't really give a ####### what the law is. Ain't their business because in all actuality, their above it. This bill makes that official. Often, they committed felonies in the process. Never mind. Forgiven. They cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year. That ain't gonna stop. They have no right to be here. None whatsoever. Yet they claim oherwise. And here they are to be treated better than your spouse or mine would if she had just stayed a year beyond her welcomeon any given visit prior to your petitioning for her w/o doing anyone any harm and without ever running into any other conflict with the law. If that doesn't outrage you, then there's nothing I can say.

[amwo 0]

There is nothing to stop the existence of prejudices, in general ... this is true. However, there is everything in the world you can do to stop specific prejudices in yourself.

Well said, but that is pretty tough when someone is sticking a foreign flag in your face.

[JoeMama 0]

There is nothing to stop the existence of prejudices, in general ... this is true. However, there is everything in the world you can do to stop specific prejudices in yourself.

Well said, but that is pretty tough when someone is sticking a foreign flag in your face.

Here! Here!

[LuzyC 0]

You just don't get it Steven. I really don't care if Mexico or any other country is next to our border. I really don't care if this group or another group has made some contribution to our culture. I really don't care if they (the illegals) are a parasite or it's a symbiotic relationship. The fact remains they are here without permission and they ALL should go. I don't care if it costs more for veggies or lawn service or whatever you may bring up. They are thumbing their noses at our laws and they should all leave! If the government wants to relax the laws on guest workers then let them. As long as they have the appropriate visa and we know who is coming and going from our country then fine. The idea that just because Mexico is our neighbor to the south does not give them any special right to come and go as they please. Besides, as Pedroh would point out, not all illegals are Mexican. They come from all over Latin America and to a lesser extent all over the world. We need to secure our borders and kick out anyone that does not have permission to be here. Once that is done then they can come back in a legal manner and to me they would be welcome.

[Ban Hammer 13,551]

You just don't get it Steven. I really don't care if Mexico or any other country is next to our border. I really don't care if this group or another group has made some contribution to our culture. I really don't care if they (the illegals) are a parasite or it's a symbiotic relationship. The fact remains they are here without permission and they ALL should go. I don't care if it costs more for veggies or lawn service or whatever you may bring up. They are thumbing their noses at our laws and they should all leave! If the government wants to relax the laws on guest workers then let them. As long as they have the appropriate visa and we know who is coming and going from our country then fine. The idea that just because Mexico is our neighbor to the south does not give them any special right to come and go as they please. Besides, as Pedroh would point out, not all illegals are Mexican. They come from all over Latin America and to a lesser extent all over the world. We need to secure our borders and kick out anyone that does not have permission to be here. Once that is done then they can come back in a legal manner and to me they would be welcome.

wrong login again, gary

Edited May 20, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[LuzyC 0]

Sorry....

Edited May 20, 2007 by LuzyC