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Filed: Country: Philippines
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Posted
  LisaD said:
  Alex+R said:
I think the two issues are separate. Legal immigration is RIDICULOUS. The waits, situations like Girona's and Shona's and other aspects are completely unfair. I don't feel illegal immigrants are the cause or in any way related to those problems, but yes, they are ludicrous and USCIS should be ashamed.

But they're not separate. It's a perfect example of pandering to the illegals...rights which legal citizens do not have. You lie on your AOS forms, Alex...and see how fast they ship Rey outta here. USCIS doesn't give a sh!t about any of us with legal immigrations pending, yet it's all hearts and flowers about the 'plight' of the illegal. It's total BS.

...and that's why these arguments become circular. If some don't see any difference than it's fruitless to take the argument any further.

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Posted
  Gupt said:
  Steven_and_Jinky said:
I don't really either, however, it doesn't really address the influx of unskilled laborers immigrating from Mexico, which is why, understandably, Mexican immigrants don't agree with this proposal. And the only way I see us addressing that issue is with trade reform. Nothing short of that will stop them from coming here.

We should make a deal with Mexico. For every two hard-working but unskilled worker we take in from Mexico, they have to take one of our many useless bums and social rejects.

Mexico would round up all the gringos and deport them.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Mexico
Timeline
Posted
  altimixdj said:
  pedroh said:
  Alex+R said:
  altimixdj said:
  pedroh said:
  altimixdj said:
  Aymerlu said:
Poor baby! Quite frankly I don't care what Mexico thinks. I'm offended because Mexicans are starting to run over my town. I'm offeneded that my 6 year old has to learn spanish because there are 2 kids in her class that cannot speak english. I'm offeneded that my tax dollars are going to support illegals with healthcare when I myself have a difficult time paying for it. So there....I'm offended too Eddie! I don't have a problem at all with mexicans, I just have a problem when the wrong measures are taken to get to the U.S

I'm with ya on this one and agree completely. American-born children in American public schools should not be forced to learn another language to accomodate people who took no inititive to learn anything, except how well wages are, in a country they have taken an illegall residence. US citizens are being forced to "dumb" themselves downward to accomodate outsiders who don't believe they have to learn the official language. How are we as a nation to progess by dumbing our society downward? Obviously, we are not. Look at the downward spiral of our government, education, economy, and health care. You see by my photo I have a fairly good tan going on. I'm 1/2 Filipino 1/2 Dutch. But living in California, I am mistaken for being Mexican. All the time I have people who walk up to me and start speaking Spanish to me. I respond right back to them in Russian. Though, not completely fluent yet. It is a language I choose to learn. I love watching their reaction! It's too bewildering to them! Then, those who do speak English whenever I do this, will ask if I speak English. I will tell them, "Of course, it is the official language of the USA". I also tell them just because my skin is brown, that doesn't mean I speak Spanish either. ;)

dumb themselves down? for learning spanish? so is spanish an inferior language? or being bilingual is for ignorant people? wow, first time i've heard that... so, which language should they teach that doesn't dumb you down? german? french? Italian?... so all the people who speak english and spanish are dumb? wow.. gonna tell my wife that.. that she's very stupid for getting certified as a bilingual teacher in english and spanish..

You're making assumptions. I never said "Spanish-speakers" were dumb. Read carefully at what I have originally said. I have 3 daughters in school, I don't belittle Spanish if they choose to learn it. I could tell them that it is wrong. But I don't. It is their choice to learn it. My point is valid that US society is being forced downward to accomodate those that arrive here without knowing a word of the official language. I would never assume going to another country without learning a good amount of that country's language. I would never expect them to accomodate me by assuming or telling them they have to learn or know my language. Certainly, it is not right that having to conduct public school in 2 different languages is taking away from other students who only speak English. How many times do you make a call an get an automated message, "Press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish"? That's twice the amount of time wasted for a person who only knows the official language of the country they were born. That is what I am talking about. I have no problem with anybody coming from another country that makes a good attempt at trying to speak English. Regardless, of how badly spoken it may be by most standards. I can respect that person and I am more than willing to help them.

Just for the record, if you think I'm picking only on Mexicans, you're wrong. One of my best friends and his family are Mexican. I personally dislike people that are from all different races for whatever reason or encounter I've had with them! I'm 1/2 Filipino. There are Filipinos I don't like! :D

I'm sorry, but I think Pedroh is right in calling you on the "dumbing down" remark. I have no idea how you can claim that a culture that now speaks two languages is less rich, or even "dumber" unless you have serious prejudices that you've just revealed. From your condescending description of how "it's too bewildering to them!" I can see you are completely prejudiced and are somehow getting off on feeling better than latin-american immigrants. My teacher friend tells me that she always conducts class in English and offers extra help to the kids who don't speak it yet. Seems fine to me. I'm sorry you are gravely inconvenienced by sometimes being mistaken for Mexican or having to press 1 for English, and I'm sorry you are terrified about your children being exposed to the dangers of Spanish, but there's nothing dumb about Spanish. Do we as a country need to be able to communicate with each other? Yes. And you're not going very far in America without learning English.

PS although I found your whole post ridiculous, the part I bolded was the most funny to me. "Some of my best friends are black..." :lol:

yeap.. as Chapelle said.. ' if you know how many black dudes are in your house, you are a fukcin racist'.. that's the dumbest thing to do.. oh yeah.. them mexicans are bad.. but hey! I got mexican friends.. as if that entitled you to something..

but thanks for pointing it out Alex.. yes.. He is fukcin prejudiced.. cuz spanish is somehow inferior and dumb.. and he's so OMGLEETZORZ that he 'bewildens them'.. pliz..

Call me what you want Peter (Yes, it's English for your name). A racist, whatever. My life will move on just fine. The only reason why you're so hyped over this whole thing is because your SO is from Mexico. Would you be so bent about the topic if the majority of illegals here weren't Mexican? What I have to say is for anybody who comes from another country believing America owes them a free benefits at the expense of those who were rightfully born in the US and worked to try and keep this country from going under. Obviously, our government is making quite horrible decisions which are not in the best interest of it's legal citizens. Why do you think people are furious about the latest on immigration reform? The government is doing a very big disservice to everyone.

As far as with Alex+R, you're too far to the right. Turn your head a little and maybe you can see straight down the middle. You're just as bad with your assumptions. Saying, "I'm sorry you are terrified about your children being exposed to the dangers of Spanish, but there's nothing dumb about Spanish". Did I say anything about it being stupid learning Spanish? Or any other thing for that matter? My whole point, which you've obviously missed is, would you allow someone to walk into your home and tell you that you have to learn "their" language, change your rules, pay for their medical, cloth and feed them, because it's easier if you accomodate those who have no legal right to be there in the first place?

My name is not Peter, is Pedro.. I'm the Mexican, my wife is American.. and no, I'm not calling the race card for nothing.. you said that USC's dumben themselves when learning spanish, and someone else said 'she/he was offended for having more mexicans in her/his town'.. is that not prejudiced, I dunno what the fukc it is..

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Filed: Timeline
Posted
  Alex+R said:
  Oath said:
Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline
Posted
  ET-US2004 said:
  Alex+R said:
  Oath said:
Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

I'll try an analogy. Suppose a land owner never fenced in his land and his neighbor's cattle would graze on that land. Suppose this goes on for several generations and in fact the land owner benefits from the grazing to keep the brush on his land from growing out of control. The cattle help with seed germination, etc. Then one day, the land owner decides he's doesn't want his neighbor's cattle grazing on his land anymore. He tries to put up a fence, but land is so vast that it's impossible to keep the cattle out. Also, the herd has become dependent on the land and would suffer without access to that land.

It's not a clear cut case of exercising right of ownership (our land so f##k off).

There is a symbiotic relationship between us and the millions of undocumented, unskilled workers here from Mexico.

Posted
  homesick_american said:
  pedroh said:
well.. USA wouldn't need so many guest workers if actually americans would do the jobs, or not quit after a week.. or study something related to where all guest workers are being hired... if high school kids want to go work in their uncle's drywall business instead of studying something some big-####### company needs, they wouldn't hire dem indians and chinese..

In the United States, about 35-40% of adults have a bachelor's degree. Now, according to the illegal Mexican tobacco field hand, we have 'enough'. Well, he should just stop cutting tobacco and we should just make a position for him in Bush's cabinet. :rolleyes: We do NOT have enough adults with bachelor's degrees, and we have severe skills shortages in some areas. The Chinese and the Indians aren't short of engineers and scientists, and that's scary because we ARE

Actually, more Americans are losing their jobs in the engineering, biotech, computer, research industries because of the tens of thousands of H-1B Indian and Chinese workers "imported" here every year.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the year 2001, 9 out of every 10 new job openings for computer/IT were taken by H-1Bs, and despite record unemployment the INS issued 312,000 visas in 2002.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the year 2003 the total number of H-1B visas for high-tech workers issued was greater than the total number of high-tech jobs eliminated. Negative job growth in Computer/IT for U.S. citizens and residents can be directly correlated with the huge influx of H-1B visa holders. If it wasn't for H-1B the unemployment rate for Computer/IT workers would be 0%.

I got this data from a link on DICE.com discussion forums. There are horror stories about US citizens and green card holders losing jobs and being turned down for jobs only to give them to the H visa holders from India. Last year alone one outsourcing recruitment agency in India applied for 22K H visas IN ONE DAY. Even people of Indian descent in the USA are losing their jobs because of this policy. But, the MYTH of "there aren't enough skilled workers in the USA" remains.

The priority SHOULD be given to the laborers that are going to fill the glut of those jobs that they have been doing for years anyways, and leave the degreed professional jobs to the citizens and residents that are already here. The tobacco guy is right. If a door is going to be opened, which I was always in favor of some kind of policy being developed, it should help those very people that are needing it most, (laborers) and not at the expense of the legal residents and citizens.

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Posted
  Steven_and_Jinky said:
We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

I'll try an analogy. Suppose a land owner never fenced in his land and his neighbor's cattle would graze on that land. Suppose this goes on for several generations and in fact the land owner benefits from the grazing to keep the brush on his land from growing out of control. The cattle help with seed germination, etc. Then one day, the land owner decides he's doesn't want his neighbor's cattle grazing on his land anymore. He tries to put up a fence, but land is so vast that it's impossible to keep the cattle out. Also, the herd has become dependent on the land and would suffer without access to that land.

It's not a clear cut case of exercising right of ownership (our land so f##k off).

There is a symbiotic relationship between us and the millions of undocumented, unskilled workers here from Mexico.

No, there is no difference Steve. Just because they have been here 10 years or more does not make it right. There is no symbionic relationship here, only a parasitic one. I don't buy the BS line that they are contributing to our country. They are coming here illegaly with the help of greedy business owners, taking our free health care, our free schooling for their kids and sending the money back home. I really don't care what country they are from, what color their skin is or what job they are doing. They all need to go back home and do it the legal way. I agree that we need to expand the guest worker program. But I also think that these gate crashers have no rights what so ever here.

The solution here is so simple, ENFORCE THE FUKCING LABOR LAWS!!! If they can't get jobs they wouldn't come here illegaly in the first place!

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Ukraine
Timeline
Posted
  pedroh said:
My name is not Peter, is Pedro.. I'm the Mexican, my wife is American.. and no, I'm not calling the race card for nothing.. you said that USC's dumben themselves when learning spanish, and someone else said 'she/he was offended for having more mexicans in her/his town'.. is that not prejudiced, I dunno what the fukc it is..

Amiga, I'm not going to convince you of anything. Let alone even attempt it. Twist my words however you wish to your satisfaction and pleasure. Whether you like it or not, you're going to encounter racism and prejudice wherever you go in the USA. If you wish to be confrontational with everyone that says something remotely negative about a Mexican, I don't think you're going to like being here at all. You're here legally. Enjoy the ride! It's those that are illegal we want out! Regardless, of where they came from or what color their skin is! :thumbs:

Joseph

us.jpgKarolina

AOS application received Chicago - 11/12/2007

Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Brazil
Timeline
Posted
  LaGreenEyes said:
  homesick_american said:
  pedroh said:
well.. USA wouldn't need so many guest workers if actually americans would do the jobs, or not quit after a week.. or study something related to where all guest workers are being hired... if high school kids want to go work in their uncle's drywall business instead of studying something some big-####### company needs, they wouldn't hire dem indians and chinese..

In the United States, about 35-40% of adults have a bachelor's degree. Now, according to the illegal Mexican tobacco field hand, we have 'enough'. Well, he should just stop cutting tobacco and we should just make a position for him in Bush's cabinet. :rolleyes: We do NOT have enough adults with bachelor's degrees, and we have severe skills shortages in some areas. The Chinese and the Indians aren't short of engineers and scientists, and that's scary because we ARE

Actually, more Americans are losing their jobs in the engineering, biotech, computer, research industries because of the tens of thousands of H-1B Indian and Chinese workers "imported" here every year.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the year 2001, 9 out of every 10 new job openings for computer/IT were taken by H-1Bs, and despite record unemployment the INS issued 312,000 visas in 2002.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the year 2003 the total number of H-1B visas for high-tech workers issued was greater than the total number of high-tech jobs eliminated. Negative job growth in Computer/IT for U.S. citizens and residents can be directly correlated with the huge influx of H-1B visa holders. If it wasn't for H-1B the unemployment rate for Computer/IT workers would be 0%.

I got this data from a link on DICE.com discussion forums. There are horror stories about US citizens and green card holders losing jobs and being turned down for jobs only to give them to the H visa holders from India. Last year alone one outsourcing recruitment agency in India applied for 22K H visas IN ONE DAY. Even people of Indian descent in the USA are losing their jobs because of this policy. But, the MYTH of "there aren't enough skilled workers in the USA" remains.

The priority SHOULD be given to the laborers that are going to fill the glut of those jobs that they have been doing for years anyways, and leave the degreed professional jobs to the citizens and residents that are already here. The tobacco guy is right. If a door is going to be opened, which I was always in favor of some kind of policy being developed, it should help those very people that are needing it most, (laborers) and not at the expense of the legal residents and citizens.

Even people of Indian descent whaaaaaaaa.... what do they mean? This is ridiculous fearmongering. If we didn't need more IT workers, they wouldn't be taking up the H1Bs. Do you have any idea what an employer goes through to hire an H1B? What they have to do before hiring one? Do you realize that none of the "statistics" and their conclusions you quoted make any sense? Ugh I get so tired of this #######.

Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Brazil
Timeline
Posted
  altimixdj said:
  pedroh said:
My name is not Peter, is Pedro.. I'm the Mexican, my wife is American.. and no, I'm not calling the race card for nothing.. you said that USC's dumben themselves when learning spanish, and someone else said 'she/he was offended for having more mexicans in her/his town'.. is that not prejudiced, I dunno what the fukc it is..

Amiga, I'm not going to convince you of anything. Let alone even attempt it. Twist my words however you wish to your satisfaction and pleasure. Whether you like it or not, you're going to encounter racism and prejudice wherever you go in the USA. If you wish to be confrontational with everyone that says something remotely negative about a Mexican, I don't think you're going to like being here at all. You're here legally. Enjoy the ride! It's those that are illegal we want out! Regardless, of where they came from or what color their skin is! :thumbs:

Amiga? :huh:

By the way, it's refreshing to see someone so comfortable with prejudice who accepts it and doesn't want to do anything about it. You're basically saying "shut up about the prejudice and deal with it. You shouldn't complain."

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Ukraine
Timeline
Posted (edited)
  Alex+R said:
  altimixdj said:
  pedroh said:
My name is not Peter, is Pedro.. I'm the Mexican, my wife is American.. and no, I'm not calling the race card for nothing.. you said that USC's dumben themselves when learning spanish, and someone else said 'she/he was offended for having more mexicans in her/his town'.. is that not prejudiced, I dunno what the fukc it is..

Amiga, I'm not going to convince you of anything. Let alone even attempt it. Twist my words however you wish to your satisfaction and pleasure. Whether you like it or not, you're going to encounter racism and prejudice wherever you go in the USA. If you wish to be confrontational with everyone that says something remotely negative about a Mexican, I don't think you're going to like being here at all. You're here legally. Enjoy the ride! It's those that are illegal we want out! Regardless, of where they came from or what color their skin is! :thumbs:

Amiga? :huh:

By the way, it's refreshing to see someone so comfortable with prejudice who accepts it and doesn't want to do anything about it. You're basically saying "shut up about the prejudice and deal with it. You shouldn't complain."

Are you high? You're about a ding-bat Alex! Prejudices have been around since the beginning of man and will be here until the end of the human race. There is nothing in either of our lifetimes that is going to stop it. I can simply accept how other people think or dump gasoline on the fire by confronting them and convince them to change their minds. I don't make a big deal about it and it doesn't bother me at all. People who may be prejudice against me or whomever for whatever reasons they have, are not applying violent actions toward me based on whatever prejudices they have. So why should I do anything about it? They are in America where their 1st Admendment right is guaranteed under The Constitution. Provided they are a legal US citizen! :lol:

Edited by altimixdj

Joseph

us.jpgKarolina

AOS application received Chicago - 11/12/2007

Filed: Country: Thailand
Timeline
Posted

There is nothing to stop the existence of prejudices, in general ... this is true. However, there is everything in the world you can do to stop specific prejudices in yourself.

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...

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Brazil
Timeline
Posted
  altimixdj said:
  Alex+R said:
  altimixdj said:
  pedroh said:
My name is not Peter, is Pedro.. I'm the Mexican, my wife is American.. and no, I'm not calling the race card for nothing.. you said that USC's dumben themselves when learning spanish, and someone else said 'she/he was offended for having more mexicans in her/his town'.. is that not prejudiced, I dunno what the fukc it is..

Amiga, I'm not going to convince you of anything. Let alone even attempt it. Twist my words however you wish to your satisfaction and pleasure. Whether you like it or not, you're going to encounter racism and prejudice wherever you go in the USA. If you wish to be confrontational with everyone that says something remotely negative about a Mexican, I don't think you're going to like being here at all. You're here legally. Enjoy the ride! It's those that are illegal we want out! Regardless, of where they came from or what color their skin is! :thumbs:

Amiga? :huh:

By the way, it's refreshing to see someone so comfortable with prejudice who accepts it and doesn't want to do anything about it. You're basically saying "shut up about the prejudice and deal with it. You shouldn't complain."

Are you high? You're about a ding-bat Alex! Prejudices have been around since the beginning of man and will be here until the end of the human race. There is nothing in either of our lifetimes that is going to stop it. I can simply accept how other people think or dump gasoline on the fire by confronting them and convince them to change their minds. I don't make a big deal about it and it doesn't bother me at all. People who may be prejudice against me or whomever for whatever reasons they have, are not applying violent actions toward me based on whatever prejudices they have. So why should I do anything about it? They are in America where their 1st Admendment right is guaranteed under The Constitution. Provided they are a legal US citizen! :lol:

You're right. There are problems in the world. Let's let other people fix them.

Filed: Country: Philippines
Timeline
Posted
  Iniibig ko si Luz forever said:
  Steven_and_Jinky said:
We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

I'll try an analogy. Suppose a land owner never fenced in his land and his neighbor's cattle would graze on that land. Suppose this goes on for several generations and in fact the land owner benefits from the grazing to keep the brush on his land from growing out of control. The cattle help with seed germination, etc. Then one day, the land owner decides he's doesn't want his neighbor's cattle grazing on his land anymore. He tries to put up a fence, but land is so vast that it's impossible to keep the cattle out. Also, the herd has become dependent on the land and would suffer without access to that land.

It's not a clear cut case of exercising right of ownership (our land so f##k off).

There is a symbiotic relationship between us and the millions of undocumented, unskilled workers here from Mexico.

No, there is no difference Steve. Just because they have been here 10 years or more does not make it right. There is no symbionic relationship here, only a parasitic one. I don't buy the BS line that they are contributing to our country. They are coming here illegaly with the help of greedy business owners, taking our free health care, our free schooling for their kids and sending the money back home. I really don't care what country they are from, what color their skin is or what job they are doing. They all need to go back home and do it the legal way. I agree that we need to expand the guest worker program. But I also think that these gate crashers have no rights what so ever here.

The solution here is so simple, ENFORCE THE FUKCING LABOR LAWS!!! If they can't get jobs they wouldn't come here illegaly in the first place!

They are not in effect gate crashers, but more like invited guests to this country in the context of our historical relationship with Mexico. Calling them parasitic teeters on xenophobia because it's either you're angry that they're here without proper documentation or you're angry that they're here because they're affecting our quality of life. Otherwise, if it's the latter, then that would include ALL immigrants coming to America. Just what is the criteria for you to declare that some immigrants are parasitic and others aren't?

 

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