Mexicans fear U.S. immigration plan

[Fandango 1,440]

I think sometimes people wrongly use the 'hey I have Mexican friends' or the like because they feel they have to prove that they're not racist.

Because voicing anti-illegal Mexican immigrant opinion sometimes gets you the label of 'racist' right off the bat.

[Alex+R 0]

  LisaD said:

I think sometimes people wrongly use the 'hey I have Mexican friends' or the like because they feel they have to prove that they're not racist.

Because voicing anti-illegal Mexican immigrant opinion sometimes gets you the label of 'racist' right off the bat.

True, but IMO, the best way to show one is not racist is to not say completely racist things.

There are lots of good reasons to want to end illegal immigration. Some of them I agree with, and some I don't, but if someone has ideas that illegal immigration negatively affects the economy, that's not showing prejudice necessarily. If they feel hospitals and schools are overextended, that's not intrinsically racist. If they just don't like having more latino stores and events around town, sorry, accept change. "I want my town to stay as white as it used to be" is not a rational reason for anything in my book. I think it's important to add that fear of change is not always racist, either, although that doesn't mean it's rational.

However, sometimes, the prejudice is so blatantly obvious it's kind of sickening. Oftentimes, as is clearly true in the case of the poster in question, claims of not being racist only reinforce the racism in the original idea.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

  Steven_and_Jinky said:

  Green-eyed girl said:

Have you decided that I CARE what country an illegal is from?

That's the problem. You are like a lot of people who get caught up in the emotionally charged rhetoric, failing to see any difference. There IS a big difference whether you acknowledge it or not. It's like those who refuse to believe in other historical facts - it doesn't make them any less relevent.

I'm not "caught up" in emotionally charged rhethoric. You saying I am is just another transparent dismissive tactic.

There IS a big difference between legal and illegal, whether you acknowledge it or not. It's like those who refuse to believe in immigration laws, it doesn't make them any less relevent.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Fandango 1,440]

  Alex+R said:

  LisaD said:

I think sometimes people wrongly use the 'hey I have Mexican friends' or the like because they feel they have to prove that they're not racist.

Because voicing anti-illegal Mexican immigrant opinion sometimes gets you the label of 'racist' right off the bat.

True, but IMO, the best way to show one is not racist is to not say completely racist things.

There are lots of good reasons to want to end illegal immigration. Some of them I agree with, and some I don't, but if someone has ideas that illegal immigration negatively affects the economy, that's not showing prejudice necessarily. If they feel hospitals and schools are overextended, that's not intrinsically racist. If they just don't like having more latino stores and events around town, sorry, accept change. "I want my town to stay as white as it used to be" is not a rational reason for anything in my book. I think it's important to add that fear of change is not always racist, either, although that doesn't mean it's rational.

However, sometimes, the prejudice is so blatantly obvious it's kind of sickening. Oftentimes, as is clearly true in the case of the poster in question, claims of not being racist only reinforce the racism in the original idea.

I think sometimes text can be a bit misleading and things can get taken out of context for the sake of debate. This is obviously an emotional issue, and in order to understand each other, we should really listen and not finger point so much. Then maybe each side can present their views without all this blame-storming & labeling.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Illegal immigration is not about race. But race is brought up by liberals because they realize there is no other defense for illegal immigration. They're just grasping at straws.

[Oath 0]

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

[Alex+R 0]

  LuckyStrike said:

Illegal immigration is not about race. But race is brought up by liberals because they realize there is no other defense for illegal immigration. They're just grasping at straws.

AFAIK, illegal immigration is not a liberal/conservative issue. Right on VJ we have lots of people who hold all sorts of opinions. ET-US is very anti illegal immigration and so is Homesick American. Neither are what I would call "conservatives," if that word means anything in America today.

The bad guy isn't always "the liberals," and Americans don't think along those lines, although I'm sure that would be convenient.

[Alex+R 0]

  Oath said:

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

[Reynaldo 0]

  LuckyStrike said:

Illegal immigration is not about race. But race is brought up by liberals because they realize there is no other defense for illegal immigration. They're just grasping at straws.

DAMN YOU LIBERALS!!!!!!

Edited May 19, 2007 by Reynaldo

[one...two...tree 2,762]

  Alex+R said:

  LuckyStrike said:

Illegal immigration is not about race. But race is brought up by liberals because they realize there is no other defense for illegal immigration. They're just grasping at straws.

AFAIK, illegal immigration is not a liberal/conservative issue. Right on VJ we have lots of people who hold all sorts of opinions. ET-US is very anti illegal immigration and so is Homesick American. Neither are what I would call "conservatives," if that word means anything in America today.

The bad guy isn't always "the liberals," and Americans don't think along those lines, although I'm sure that would be convenient.

There's a lot of faulty framing going on regarding immigration even here on an immigration site. The issue of undocumented workers here from Mexico is really it's own issue under illegal immigration. From a pragmatic perspective, I just don't see how some Americans get so worked up over it as if they are directly suffering from the large number of undocumented workers from Mexico that are living here illegally.

The animosity towards illegals from Mexico baffles me.

[JoeMama 0]

  pedroh said:

  Alex+R said:

  altimixdj said:

  pedroh said:

  altimixdj said:

  Aymerlu said:

Poor baby! Quite frankly I don't care what Mexico thinks. I'm offended because Mexicans are starting to run over my town. I'm offeneded that my 6 year old has to learn spanish because there are 2 kids in her class that cannot speak english. I'm offeneded that my tax dollars are going to support illegals with healthcare when I myself have a difficult time paying for it. So there....I'm offended too Eddie! I don't have a problem at all with mexicans, I just have a problem when the wrong measures are taken to get to the U.S

I'm with ya on this one and agree completely. American-born children in American public schools should not be forced to learn another language to accomodate people who took no inititive to learn anything, except how well wages are, in a country they have taken an illegall residence. US citizens are being forced to "dumb" themselves downward to accomodate outsiders who don't believe they have to learn the official language. How are we as a nation to progess by dumbing our society downward? Obviously, we are not. Look at the downward spiral of our government, education, economy, and health care. You see by my photo I have a fairly good tan going on. I'm 1/2 Filipino 1/2 Dutch. But living in California, I am mistaken for being Mexican. All the time I have people who walk up to me and start speaking Spanish to me. I respond right back to them in Russian. Though, not completely fluent yet. It is a language I choose to learn. I love watching their reaction! It's too bewildering to them! Then, those who do speak English whenever I do this, will ask if I speak English. I will tell them, "Of course, it is the official language of the USA". I also tell them just because my skin is brown, that doesn't mean I speak Spanish either.

dumb themselves down? for learning spanish? so is spanish an inferior language? or being bilingual is for ignorant people? wow, first time i've heard that... so, which language should they teach that doesn't dumb you down? german? french? Italian?... so all the people who speak english and spanish are dumb? wow.. gonna tell my wife that.. that she's very stupid for getting certified as a bilingual teacher in english and spanish..

You're making assumptions. I never said "Spanish-speakers" were dumb. Read carefully at what I have originally said. I have 3 daughters in school, I don't belittle Spanish if they choose to learn it. I could tell them that it is wrong. But I don't. It is their choice to learn it. My point is valid that US society is being forced downward to accomodate those that arrive here without knowing a word of the official language. I would never assume going to another country without learning a good amount of that country's language. I would never expect them to accomodate me by assuming or telling them they have to learn or know my language. Certainly, it is not right that having to conduct public school in 2 different languages is taking away from other students who only speak English. How many times do you make a call an get an automated message, "Press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish"? That's twice the amount of time wasted for a person who only knows the official language of the country they were born. That is what I am talking about. I have no problem with anybody coming from another country that makes a good attempt at trying to speak English. Regardless, of how badly spoken it may be by most standards. I can respect that person and I am more than willing to help them.

Just for the record, if you think I'm picking only on Mexicans, you're wrong. One of my best friends and his family are Mexican. I personally dislike people that are from all different races for whatever reason or encounter I've had with them! I'm 1/2 Filipino. There are Filipinos I don't like!

I'm sorry, but I think Pedroh is right in calling you on the "dumbing down" remark. I have no idea how you can claim that a culture that now speaks two languages is less rich, or even "dumber" unless you have serious prejudices that you've just revealed. From your condescending description of how "it's too bewildering to them!" I can see you are completely prejudiced and are somehow getting off on feeling better than latin-american immigrants. My teacher friend tells me that she always conducts class in English and offers extra help to the kids who don't speak it yet. Seems fine to me. I'm sorry you are gravely inconvenienced by sometimes being mistaken for Mexican or having to press 1 for English, and I'm sorry you are terrified about your children being exposed to the dangers of Spanish, but there's nothing dumb about Spanish. Do we as a country need to be able to communicate with each other? Yes. And you're not going very far in America without learning English.

PS although I found your whole post ridiculous, the part I bolded was the most funny to me. "Some of my best friends are black..."

yeap.. as Chapelle said.. ' if you know how many black dudes are in your house, you are a fukcin racist'.. that's the dumbest thing to do.. oh yeah.. them mexicans are bad.. but hey! I got mexican friends.. as if that entitled you to something..

but thanks for pointing it out Alex.. yes.. He is fukcin prejudiced.. cuz spanish is somehow inferior and dumb.. and he's so OMGLEETZORZ that he 'bewildens them'.. pliz..

Call me what you want Peter (Yes, it's English for your name). A racist, whatever. My life will move on just fine. The only reason why you're so hyped over this whole thing is because your SO is from Mexico. Would you be so bent about the topic if the majority of illegals here weren't Mexican? What I have to say is for anybody who comes from another country believing America owes them a free benefits at the expense of those who were rightfully born in the US and worked to try and keep this country from going under. Obviously, our government is making quite horrible decisions which are not in the best interest of it's legal citizens. Why do you think people are furious about the latest on immigration reform? The government is doing a very big disservice to everyone.

As far as with Alex+R, you're too far to the right. Turn your head a little and maybe you can see straight down the middle. You're just as bad with your assumptions. Saying, "I'm sorry you are terrified about your children being exposed to the dangers of Spanish, but there's nothing dumb about Spanish". Did I say anything about it being stupid learning Spanish? Or any other thing for that matter? My whole point, which you've obviously missed is, would you allow someone to walk into your home and tell you that you have to learn "their" language, change your rules, pay for their medical, cloth and feed them, because it's easier if you accomodate those who have no legal right to be there in the first place?

[Fandango 1,440]

  Alex+R said:

  Oath said:

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

You're right, they are incomparable.

Girona's son is facing deportation because USCIS didn't freeze his age at the time of application. Now with this new proposed bill, he would face a LIFETIME ban...

Shona is facing deportation because her sponsor was physically abusive...now she's separated/divorced...no EAD afaik, and fighting to stay here....

Mae Jim right now is facing deportation because her husband died shortly after she arrived....

As opposed to tresspassers who come in with no authorization, commit identity fraud, live and work illegally...

you're absolutely right, Alex...they are incomparable. And the government has gone insane.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

  Alex+R said:

  LuckyStrike said:

Illegal immigration is not about race. But race is brought up by liberals because they realize there is no other defense for illegal immigration. They're just grasping at straws.

AFAIK, illegal immigration is not a liberal/conservative issue. Right on VJ we have lots of people who hold all sorts of opinions. ET-US is very anti illegal immigration and so is Homesick American. Neither are what I would call "conservatives," if that word means anything in America today.

The bad guy isn't always "the liberals," and Americans don't think along those lines, although I'm sure that would be convenient.

I feel that more liberals support illegal immigration than conservatives. If I weren't so lazy I would start a poll here.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

  LuckyStrike said:

  Alex+R said:

  LuckyStrike said:

Illegal immigration is not about race. But race is brought up by liberals because they realize there is no other defense for illegal immigration. They're just grasping at straws.

AFAIK, illegal immigration is not a liberal/conservative issue. Right on VJ we have lots of people who hold all sorts of opinions. ET-US is very anti illegal immigration and so is Homesick American. Neither are what I would call "conservatives," if that word means anything in America today.

The bad guy isn't always "the liberals," and Americans don't think along those lines, although I'm sure that would be convenient.

I feel that more liberals support illegal immigration than conservatives. If I weren't so lazy I would start a poll here.

What about beer? That'd be a hard one, wouldn't it.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I just love how certain people keep bringing up skin colour in an attempt to label their opponents racist Isn't focusing on skin colour itself racist?? And isn't giving preferential treatment to illegals from one country also racist?

Edited May 19, 2007 by Scott & Lai