Mexicans fear U.S. immigration plan

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language...

I think it's the fact that Spanish is pushed on America. Other languages one learns by choice. That's the big difference.

I think this "pushed on us" or "shoved in our faces" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really? Have you not noticed yet that more and more jobs require applicants to speak Spanish? The trend will continue. I have no problem with learning a second language; obviously not seeing that I am not a native English speaker but learned the language since I decided to live here. But this trend, to a large degree, really takes the choice out of what second language to learn. Hence, Spanish as a second language is pushed on America.

This is about the only thing I like about the immigration "reform" draft: The getting serious about making immigrants learn English part. As an immigrant, I thought of that as my natural obligation seeing that I chose America as my home. How arrogant of me it would have been to expect my then host country to cater to my communication preferences.

[homesick_american 1]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language...

I think it's the fact that Spanish is pushed on America. Other languages one learns by choice. That's the big difference.

I think this "pushed on us" or "shoved in our faces" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really? Have you not noticed yet that more and more jobs require applicants to speak Spanish? The trend will continue. I have no problem with learning a second language; obviously not seeing that I am not a native English speaker but learned the language since I decided to live here. But this trend, to a large degree, really takes the choice out of what second language to learn. Hence, Spanish as a second language is pushed on America.

This is about the only thing I like about the immigration "reform" draft: The getting serious about making immigrants learn English part. As an immigrant, I thought of that as my natural obligation seeing that I chose America as my home. How arrogant of me it would have been to expect my then host country to cater to my communication preferences.

They have the same problem here in the UK, but instead of the bulk of immigrants speaking a single language (Spanish) as in the US, here there are dozens of languages that have to be catered for from national government to social services to councils to schools. Hospitals are required to pay translators every single day to interpret for patients who don't speak a word of English, and some of them have lived here for years. :angry: :angry:

[pedroh 21]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language...

I think it's the fact that Spanish is pushed on America. Other languages one learns by choice. That's the big difference.

I think this "pushed on us" or "shoved in our faces" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really? Have you not noticed yet that more and more jobs require applicants to speak Spanish? The trend will continue. I have no problem with learning a second language; obviously not seeing that I am not a native English speaker but learned the language since I decided to live here. But this trend, to a large degree, really takes the choice out of what second language to learn. Hence, Spanish as a second language is pushed on America.

This is about the only thing I like about the immigration "reform" draft: The getting serious about making immigrants learn English part. As an immigrant, I thought of that as my natural obligation seeing that I chose America as my home. How arrogant of me it would have been to expect my then host country to cater to my communication preferences.

the jobs that I've found spanish required are usually big bucks positions as supervisors or managers where a lot of hispanic labor is used.. like manufacturing plants.. again, the reward for learning spanish is not bad... although I agree with you that spanish rather than being offered as an advantage for people to learn, it's forced... although, as it was when the PC revolution started, not everybody could afford one, but the ones who were more familiar with them, got a competitive advantage.. same with spanish.. although it's more affordable than a PC.. but it's just a competitive advantage, the one who speaks it, is gonna have an advantage over a non-bilingual person

although that doesn't mean that hispanic immigrants don't have to learn english.. I think bilingualism offers a lot of benefits for both americans and latino immigrants (in this case), than just get mad at each other for not knowing the other's language..

Edited May 20, 2007 by pedroh

[Fandango 1,440]

although that doesn't mean that hispanic immigrants don't have to learn english.. I think bilingualism offers a lot of benefits for both americans and latino immigrants (in this case), than just get mad at each other for not knowing the other's language..

But that's part of the issue there...what rationale does a Spanish speaker have for being mad at an American for not knowing Spanish?

[LaGreenEyes 0]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language..

I totally agree with you. I learned Spanish a long time ago, basically because I felt like it. I was 13 years old and wanted to know what the words to the Menudo songs meant. Kind of seems trivial, but I was actually good at it, and now I am completely fluent. I have gotten many job promotions and I know part of it is because my bilingual skills made me a much more competetive candidate. I met my husband because of it. DONT BE JEALOUS BECAUSE YOU WERENT SMART ENOUGH TO LEARN 2 LANGUAGES FOLKS!! Be it Spanish, French, Chinese, Tagalog..whatever. The assumption that everyone should learn English in a day is stupid. How many of you all married people who didn't have English as their first language? Maybe they learned English in school or at work. Imagine if in their countries they were not encouraged or given the chance to learn English. Would you have been able to meet and communicate with them?......................just a thought, if English was on the OTHER foot......

I speak four languages, so I'm not jealous at all.

I think the immigrants should be required to learn English within a reasonable period of time. The younger they are, the easier it is. If I can learn four, surely they can learn two.

Oh I totally agree with you there, but some people seem to think that the immigrants should learn English almost overnight, or come over and already know English, and we all know that's impossible. If it does pass, and regarding that provision that says you can work here for 2 years then go back for a year and reapply, I would be all for a "No English No Renewal" rule. At least basic English enough to get you through day to day activities, not write a thesus.

[pedroh 21]

although that doesn't mean that hispanic immigrants don't have to learn english.. I think bilingualism offers a lot of benefits for both americans and latino immigrants (in this case), than just get mad at each other for not knowing the other's language..

But that's part of the issue there...what rationale does a Spanish speaker have for being mad at an American for not knowing Spanish?

honestly, I don't know lol... I've seen it a couple of times here.. how they almost demand a spanish speaker associate.. I really don't know..

[homesick_american 1]

although that doesn't mean that hispanic immigrants don't have to learn english.. I think bilingualism offers a lot of benefits for both americans and latino immigrants (in this case), than just get mad at each other for not knowing the other's language..

But that's part of the issue there...what rationale does a Spanish speaker have for being mad at an American for not knowing Spanish?

Yeah, no sh!t. :lol: :lol:

[LaGreenEyes 0]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language...

I think it's the fact that Spanish is pushed on America. Other languages one learns by choice. That's the big difference.

I think this "pushed on us" or "shoved in our faces" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really? Have you not noticed yet that more and more jobs require applicants to speak Spanish? The trend will continue. I have no problem with learning a second language; obviously not seeing that I am not a native English speaker but learned the language since I decided to live here. But this trend, to a large degree, really takes the choice out of what second language to learn. Hence, Spanish as a second language is pushed on America.

This is about the only thing I like about the immigration "reform" draft: The getting serious about making immigrants learn English part. As an immigrant, I thought of that as my natural obligation seeing that I chose America as my home. How arrogant of me it would have been to expect my then host country to cater to my communication preferences.

We live in a global society, and to be competitive in the job market, one has to have specific skills. If I, as a 100% gabacha that learned Spanish because I felt like it, am more marketable, then, well that's life and I may get a job over someone else who does't speak it. In Canada I'm sure there are jobs that require English and French. Many companies that do business in Latin America of course would want certain employees to speak Spanish, it's not only to "cater" to the "immigrants" that don't speak English. Would you hire a cook for a restaurant who had no cooking experience? Then why would a company that does business and sells a product to Latin American hire someone who can't speak the language of their clients? Should the client learn English to appease the business? Or take their business to someone who CAN communicate with them. There's more to the English/Spanish debate than just illegal immigrants.

[Alex+R 0]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language...

I think it's the fact that Spanish is pushed on America. Other languages one learns by choice. That's the big difference.

I think this "pushed on us" or "shoved in our faces" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really? Have you not noticed yet that more and more jobs require applicants to speak Spanish? The trend will continue. I have no problem with learning a second language; obviously not seeing that I am not a native English speaker but learned the language since I decided to live here. But this trend, to a large degree, really takes the choice out of what second language to learn. Hence, Spanish as a second language is pushed on America.

This is about the only thing I like about the immigration "reform" draft: The getting serious about making immigrants learn English part. As an immigrant, I thought of that as my natural obligation seeing that I chose America as my home. How arrogant of me it would have been to expect my then host country to cater to my communication preferences.

But it's the jobs asking applicants to speak Spanish, not the immigrants. Maybe those jobs want you to be able to communicate with more people, and in their native language. I have never heard of a Spanish speaker getting angry at a retail worker or restaurant worker for not speaking Spanish. It's not them; it's the company that wants you to learn Spanish. I would imagine that most other places in the world require English for way more jobs than we require Spanish for in this country.

[Captain Oates 911]

I hope this amnesty doesn't go through because I will have to pay more for hotel rooms and beer in Boston if the Irish bar staff are made legal. Being retired, travel is my main hobby and if the illegals become legal and get a decent wage, then room rates will rocket - I might as well stay in Europe. Disney world will crash as costs rise - my shares will lose out - whose going to clean out the killer whale pool ? and the supply of beautiful young Mexican girls prepared to marry beat old crocks like me for a green card will dry up.

Yes there is every reason to be against it

Only joking, but you don't know when you are well off - in my home town in the UK, the Muslims are asking for pork and booze free check outs in the supermarkets and for Muslim staff to be exempt from working those checkouts - how would you like that ?

You Americans are already trying to speak a foreign language - English - (with fairly patchy results), so learning another one can't be so hard - at least Spanish is a beautiful language - thank your god you don't live next door to the Dutch

alan

Edited May 20, 2007 by saywhat

[homesick_american 1]

Oh I totally agree with you there, but some people seem to think that the immigrants should learn English almost overnight, or come over and already know English, and we all know that's impossible. If it does pass, and regarding that provision that says you can work here for 2 years then go back for a year and reapply, I would be all for a "No English No Renewal" rule. At least basic English enough to get you through day to day activities, not write a thesus.

Most immigrants won't learn English well enough to be able to write a thesis without help anyway.

A good friend of mine from Chile was getting a Ph.D. at the local university here; I spent many many hours proofreading his thesis in order to correct his grammar and spelling. And this is a guy who speaks English fluently. I don't mind doing it for friends, though. I proofread his wife's thesis too. I'm nice.

Two years often isn't enough for some people, but I think some people in the US don't even recognize fluent English when it's spoken with an accent.

I hope this amnesty doesn't go through because I will have to pay more for hotel rooms and beer in Boston if the Irish bar staff are made legal. Being retired, travel is my main hobby and if the illegals become legal and get a decent wage, then room rates will rocket - I might as well stay in Europe. Disney world will crash as costs rise - my shares will lose out - whose going to clean out the killer whale pool ? and the supply of beautiful young Mexican girls prepared to marry beat old crocks like me for a green card will dry up.

Yes there is every reason to be against it

Only joking, but you don't know when you are well off - in my home town in the UK, the Muslims are asking for pork and booze free check outs in the supermarkets and for Muslim staff to be exempt from working those checkouts - how would you like that ?

You Americans are already trying to speak a foreign language - English - (with fairly patchy results), so learning another one can't be so hard - at least Spanish is a beautiful language - thank your god you don't live next door to the Dutch

alan

Bleh, Spanish isn't beautiful to me. Maybe that's because I understand it, but I understand Portuguese too and I think it's gorgeous. I was putty in those Brazilian boys' hands, I tell you. There were just too many of them at my university, they kept having to peel me off the ceiling.

[Alex+R 0]

you don't know when you are well off - in my home town in the UK, the Muslims are asking for pork and booze free check outs in the supermarkets and for Muslim staff to be exempt from working those checkouts - how would you like that ?

alan

We have that already. Especially here in Minnesota.

[LaGreenEyes 0]

Oh I totally agree with you there, but some people seem to think that the immigrants should learn English almost overnight, or come over and already know English, and we all know that's impossible. If it does pass, and regarding that provision that says you can work here for 2 years then go back for a year and reapply, I would be all for a "No English No Renewal" rule. At least basic English enough to get you through day to day activities, not write a thesus.

Most immigrants won't learn English well enough to be able to write a thesis without help anyway.

A good friend of mine from Chile was getting a Ph.D. at the local university here; I spent many many hours proofreading his thesis in order to correct his grammar and spelling. And this is a guy who speaks English fluently. I don't mind doing it for friends, though. I proofread his wife's thesis too. I'm nice.

Two years often isn't enough for some people, but I think some people in the US don't even recognize fluent English when it's spoken with an accent.

That is so true! I said in another thread about how my husband speaks pretty decent English for being here a year and a half, he has studied very hard, and was told that he couldn't be hired for an office job (no phone work) because his accent was too heavy and sounded like he couldn't speak English very well. This came from a woman who sounded like she was straight out of a 50 Cent video.

[homesick_american 1]

you don't know when you are well off - in my home town in the UK, the Muslims are asking for pork and booze free check outs in the supermarkets and for Muslim staff to be exempt from working those checkouts - how would you like that ?

alan

We have that already. Especially here in Minnesota.

If they brought that in at my supermarket, I'd change supermarkets.

[homesick_american 1]

That is so true! I said in another thread about how my husband speaks pretty decent English for being here a year and a half, he has studied very hard, and was told that he couldn't be hired for an office job (no phone work) because his accent was too heavy and sounded like he couldn't speak English very well. This came from a woman who sounded like she was straight out of a 50 Cent video.

Some immigrants do need help shedding the accent, though; and though some of them will always have an accent, it can be difficult to understand a heavy accent.

My husband is English...speaks no language but English...but he has a strong Midlands accent (sounds like Neela on ER) and some Americans can't understand him. When we were in America on visits, he spoke more slowly and clearly so people could understand him. In a nutshell, he had to dial back on the English accent.

There are probably speech therapists who can help him get rid of the accent. There's no shame in it; I knew lots of kids growing up whose parents sent them to speech therapists (in Dallas) to get rid of their strong New York accents.