Mexicans fear U.S. immigration plan

[pedroh 21]

dude.. stop, my name is not Peter, is Pedro.. and no, Im not a fukcin looser that americanizes his her name to be more 'american'.. im not a fukcin wannabe... so stfu with that Peter thng..

btw..

Spanish in the southwest has ALWAYS been there.. even before US became a country.. so, the idea that spanish is taught in order to 'fit in' the illegals is stupid. Cali, Texas and those states have always being bilingual, is part of their cultural background..

Edited May 20, 2007 by pedroh

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

They have been and still are here against the law. They broke the law each and every day they went to work and they continue to do so going forward. They don't really give a ####### what the law is. Ain't their business because in all actuality, their above it. This bill makes that official. Often, they committed felonies in the process. Never mind. Forgiven. They cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year. That ain't gonna stop. They have no right to be here. None whatsoever. Yet they claim oherwise. And here they are to be treated better than your spouse or mine would if she had just stayed a year beyond her welcomeon any given visit prior to your petitioning for her w/o doing anyone any harm and without ever running into any other conflict with the law. If that doesn't outrage you, then there's nothing I can say.

It's a broken system for sure, but I don't project any emotional outrage I have over the current bureaucracy of the immigration process on Mexican immigrants - I just don't.

It's not about a broken system. It's about the lack of respect for the law and the lack of enforcement that broke a system. Rewarding those that broke it is simply the wrong approach. And that approach sure isn't going to fix anything. If it would, we wouldn't be in this mess today as such "fix" was installed 20 some years ago with the exact same promises that are being made today. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is insane.

As for immigration policy in general - if companies want to sponsor low skilled laborers, there needs to be provisions to ensure those workers have opportunities for citizenship that aren't entirely dependent on their employer that companies pick up the entire cost of having foreign workers here. Health care and all.

There, fixed. See, once you focus on what's really important, the working conditions in the low-skilled sector of the US job market wouldn't erode the way they did thanks to illegal labor and their profiteers. There wouldn't be a need for this huge influx of folks from south of the border. A janitor in the US used to be able support him/herself and his/her family. As did a farmworker and a dishwasher. Not anymore. The increased availablity of illegal labor and the erosion of the working conditions in the sectors where they work go hand in hand. And that ain't no coincidence. It's the race to the bottom that big business is looking to fuel with this bill.

While I agree the job market has taken a nose dive, it's not just because of the influx of low wage laborers. The biggest erosion that happened to Detroit was when automakers started closing shop and moving into Mexico for cheap labor. Did you forget that fact?

Jobs will be outsourced. Happens all over the world. The economy undergoes changes the job market changes. What else is new? So, we take automobil manufacturing and other jobs to Mexico. And yet, they keep on coming to take those jobs that can't be exported as well. That is what hurts the domestic job market far more than the outsourcing.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

OK... Peter... It's all good!!! Losen up... Nobody here really gives a dahamn what your real name is except for your friends and family that maybe on VJ... By the by, your facts are not right concerning acclimating Spanish into the society. Those are border states and of course there is going to be some overlap with the language. Get real...

Edited May 20, 2007 by Sheriff Uling

[pedroh 21]

OK... Peter... It's all good!!! Losen up... Nobody really gives a dahamn...

fukc you.. I give a damn.. my damn name is not Peter.. and u better cut that sh!t out

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Or what!!! PETER!!!! I told you that I don't give a dahamn about your name... so drop it... let's make a debate about something else... Oh, I'm married. So no thank you on your invitation, but I can hook you up with a nice gay guy if that's what you interested in...

Edited May 20, 2007 by Sheriff Uling

[Alex+R 0]

Or what!!! PETER!!!! I told you that I don't give a dahamn about your name... so drop it... let's make a debate about something else...

Oh my god. Calm the F*** down and give the man the respect he deserves and call him his name, which is his American name, by the way. Everyone let you call yourself Sherriff Uling.

[Captain Oates 911]

???? My siggy confuses you more?

I live in a majority moslem area - full letter box headgear etc - I talk to the guys about how wonderful it must be to have your wife obey you and never contradict you - you should see their faces ! taint true -they get all the incessant rabbit too ! its all the same stuff that we have in west - its called 'shared humanity'

Did I vote to live in a Moslem area ? no - do I hate them - no ! The young moslems I meet are cleaner and better mannered and more litter free than the locals in very many cases. Perhaps the Mexicans might have some nice things going for them too if we bothered to find out ...

Your siggy leads me to assume you dont want pure bred Americans to romp with foreigners of an ilk you don't like and who haven't had a government medical- and then bring their germs back first and their partners back later - if your sig isn't about that then I am confused (by it).. if it is - then of course you are entitled to your opinion which isn't that bad as long as you don't want to invade em and steal their oil.

I still haven't come to terms with the vision of people rolling in haystacks in the desert - perhaps its rolls of astro turf

alan

First of all, the term is MUSLIMS, not Moslems. How do I know? I am a Muslim, an Arab, in fact, born and bred, and not a pure bred either. The only ancestor I had that wasn't born overseas was my Palestinian American father. My deceased husband and my current husband are furriners. I also speak Spanish and used to live in South America. Two of my children were born in the Middle East.

You shouldn't make AZZumptions. Ask if you don't know. I don't like rewarding lawbreakers, and if that makes me a bigot in your eyes, so be it. My siggy is regarding something you have no understanding of, that's clear.

I am argumentative by inclination but I can't find anything to argue with you about there - having stood in line for a visa more than once, I am not in favour of queue jumpers either. You must admit that your siggy is rather rambling though, so folk are bound to make assumptions. Moslem or Muslim is the anglo version of an arabic word so how I pronounce it is anglo and different to how I spell it anyway. I bet you can't pronounce 'atheist' in a Yorkshire accent haha !

Look, I can accept people being anti- illegals, but all this about gleefully watching em drown in the rio grande and seeing em die in the desert and throwing their bodies back over the border is pure NAZI so I am always on bigot watch. My dad and grandad spent chunks of the last century both fighting and dying against these NAZIS. You have enough furriner about you that its impossible for you to be one of them, but there are a lot in the US and they need to be diluted.

Some people in the US need to learn that it's ok to be against something, and it's ok to be patriotic, but immediately translating that into hate and viciousness is a horrible spectacle, especially in a society which professes such religious fundamentalism

With such an extreme society, I don't think I am going to need a telly when I get there - I can just watch all these nutters doing their thing which will be most entertaining. I first became aware of it with Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby etc but the hate seems to be gathering pace so It won't be boring

alan

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Or what!!! PETER!!!! I told you that I don't give a dahamn about your name... so drop it... let's make a debate about something else...

Oh my god. Calm the F*** down and give the man the respect he deserves and call him his name, which is his American name, by the way. Everyone let you call yourself Sherriff Uling.

So what!!! It's a VJ ID and not my name... So you work it out... If you want to address me as Uling, then that is your prerogative and choice. I don't have to acknowledge you. That's my right and choice.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Sheriff Uling

[pedroh 21]

Or what!!! PETER!!!! I told you that I don't give a dahamn about your name... so drop it... let's make a debate about something else... Oh, I'm married. So no thank you on your invitation, but I can hook you up with a nice gay guy if that's what you interested in...

oh.. you on the down-low brotha? no thanks.. im not interested..

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Not wanting illegal immigrants doesnt make anyone racist... the anger comes from the shite we've all been through to do it legally while johnny illegal just jumps the border or never leaves and expects the same, or as close to as possible, options and treatment.

Gotta love how this 'race card' bullcrap is banded about so often. Save your rage.

I would agree with you if most illegal immigrants were people who bypassed family immigration rules to be with their spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends instead of following the legal process. Then it would seem totally unfair for those people to be rewarded.

In real life, the situations are completely incomparable. It makes that argument kind of childish, IMO.

It is incomparable. The truth is that what we're witnesing here is the preferential treatment of law breaking foreign nationals and law breaking profiteers here over the American family. Why are the employer that cheats the country and profits at the expense of the taxpayer and the illegal that joins the aforementioned crook in pizzing on our laws day in and day out more important to this government that the American family? Does that not make you mad?

We're not talking about foreign nationals in general but specifically the influx of Mexican immigrants that are here illegally - many for who've been here for 10 years or more - can you not see a difference?

They have been and still are here against the law. They broke the law each and every day they went to work and they continue to do so going forward. They don't really give a ####### what the law is. Ain't their business because in all actuality, their above it. This bill makes that official. Often, they committed felonies in the process. Never mind. Forgiven. They cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year. That ain't gonna stop. They have no right to be here. None whatsoever. Yet they claim oherwise. And here they are to be treated better than your spouse or mine would if she had just stayed a year beyond her welcomeon any given visit prior to your petitioning for her w/o doing anyone any harm and without ever running into any other conflict with the law. If that doesn't outrage you, then there's nothing I can say.

It's a broken system for sure, but I don't project any emotional outrage I have over the current bureaucracy of the immigration process on Mexican immigrants - I just don't.

It's not about a broken system. It's about the lack of respect for the law and the lack of enforcement that broke a system. Rewarding those that broke it is simply the wrong approach. And that approach sure isn't going to fix anything. If it would, we wouldn't be in this mess today as such "fix" was installed 20 some years ago with the exact same promises that are being made today. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is insane.

As for immigration policy in general - if companies want to sponsor low skilled laborers, there needs to be provisions to ensure those workers have opportunities for citizenship that aren't entirely dependent on their employer that companies pick up the entire cost of having foreign workers here. Health care and all.

There, fixed. See, once you focus on what's really important, the working conditions in the low-skilled sector of the US job market wouldn't erode the way they did thanks to illegal labor and their profiteers. There wouldn't be a need for this huge influx of folks from south of the border. A janitor in the US used to be able support him/herself and his/her family. As did a farmworker and a dishwasher. Not anymore. The increased availablity of illegal labor and the erosion of the working conditions in the sectors where they work go hand in hand. And that ain't no coincidence. It's the race to the bottom that big business is looking to fuel with this bill.

While I agree the job market has taken a nose dive, it's not just because of the influx of low wage laborers. The biggest erosion that happened to Detroit was when automakers started closing shop and moving into Mexico for cheap labor. Did you forget that fact?

Jobs will be outsourced. Happens all over the world. The economy undergoes changes the job market changes. What else is new? So, we take automobil manufacturing and other jobs to Mexico. And yet, they keep on coming to take those jobs that can't be exported as well. That is what hurts the domestic job market far more than the outsourcing.

A found some pocket change... (reference to being spent on this thread)

It depends on what type of job force we want to focus on in this country. Everybody wants cheap labor and when there's talk of labor organizing then free market capitalists counter with a threat of outsourcing or moving operations overseas. The question is - how do you maintain a sustaining economy in a global market? It goes back to fair trade. We can either seal ourselves off (isolationism) or find an acceptable economic solution and that requires comprehensive trade agreements that include guest worker programs for low skilled laborers as well as skilled laborers.

[Fandango 1,440]

SU, while I agree with most of your views, I think you're way out of line with the 'Peter' biz. No one shld be talked down to like that & regardless that he differs in opinion, Pedroh's still a cool dude & a great member here. He deserves respect.

Edited May 20, 2007 by LisaD

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Or what!!! PETER!!!! I told you that I don't give a dahamn about your name... so drop it... let's make a debate about something else... Oh, I'm married. So no thank you on your invitation, but I can hook you up with a nice gay guy if that's what you interested in...

oh.. you on the down-low brotha? no thanks.. im not interested..

Good! Now we can get over the non-sense and finally be friends. I have no beef with you...

[Sheriff Uling 3]

SU, while I agree with most of your views, I think you're way out of line with the 'Peter' biz. No one shld be talked down to like that & regardless that he differs in opinion, Pedroh's still a cool dude & a great member here. He deserves respect.

Thanks LisaD... I was actually just messing around and I'm over it now... If you think he's cool then he must be a good guy... Cheers! I've gotta get outta here and hit the road with the family. See you soon...

[pedroh 21]

I still can't understand why spanish is such a problem.. as giving away your American pride by learning spanish... what's the difference between learning spanish, or french, or Italian or Finnish? I really can't understand why people find spanish so offensive.... so insulting to them to learn such 'inferior' language.. I give all languages the same respect.. and.. also.. learning spanish doesn't mean kids can't learn other languages, like their house language..

[LaGreenEyes 0]

You must have failed 8th grade math, La Green Eyes.

By the way, my husband is in IT, and had no problem finding a job. He used the same methods an American would use, as he is legally here, and found many available positions. We do not live in an IT-rich city.

I'm only quoting what I saw on a website, and many other links, and things that I also have seen letters and editorials on from time to time in the Dallas Morning News, NY Times, Newsweek and other publications. I never really paid much attention to it, until I saw a story online, which led me to the DICE.com website. I happen to like to read. So, contrary to what you think I am not an idiot. So, are you illiterate because I guess you can't read my post and understand it?

http://numbersusa.com/interests/hightech.html

The link to the full story and here's a tidbit.

From the San Francisco Chronicle.....

The legal cap on H-1B visas dropped from 195,000 back to its original level of 65,000 on October 1, 2003. Almost immediately, certain Members of Congress began looking for ways to increase this level, despite the fact that the number of available jobs is decreasing and unemployment among American workers is increasing. The Wall Street Journal announced the same month, for example, that Senator Hatch was working with employers like INTEL and the Indian Government to increase the H-1B cap.

Some 14 million Americans and legal workers currently cannot find full-time jobs in the United States. More than 100,000 American programmers are unemployed. When those who are underemployed or working in other jobs because they cannot find programming jobs, the total grows to about half a million. At the same time, more than 450,000 H-1B workers are employed as programmers in the United States. U.S. employers are cutting jobs at the same time they are importing H-1B workers to fill the remaining jobs.

How would you feel if your husband ends up being some of the next ones to go in favor of H-1B'S?