Is it true? Can't refuse a visa for the same reason the second time?

[britishandusa 446]

1 hour ago, Love To Teach said:

I forgot to add, I've been divorced 4 times, which they also honed in on. The first two I was a kid, then married 21 years to a guy who fell out of love. Then I brought a Moroccan over here that proved to be abusive. So I know that played into it also. That's why I wouldn't even meet him in person for almost 2 years while I checked him out. They screamed at him at the interview, "She's been married 5 times!!!" He said that was no problem for him. They are living 500 years behind the times. They told him he was a Muslim and was still married to his first wife, while he protested. I thought our ages would actually help us since we aren't kids. But they just decide what they want to do before the person even gets there. I have heard SO many horror stories about this embassy. It makes you wonder JUST WHAT would be enough for them? 20 years together? 20 trips? It's crazy. So many people get their visas with felony arrests, are in prison, have no money to support the person, and on and on.

 

Yeah, it's been hell on both of us. I will keep working as long as I can, and he can be on my health insurance if necessary. However, now he is a manager of customer service at  a Marriott Hotel here in Dubai (I'm visiting over here right now...my tenth trip.). So I know he could get a job doing that in the USA, but he's also managed a KFC in London, been a travel agent, and owns and manages 2 businesses. He's a hard worker and a smart guy. I have no doubt he could get a job in the US and have health insurance that way. Plus, he would take any job if need be, as he is not a lazy guy.

Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, immigrating is a privilege, not a right. I’ve been following your case for awhile. I wish you guys nothing but the best. The only thing you can really do is try again and hopefully this embassy will treat you guys better than the last. 

[pushbrk 12,883]

3 hours ago, Ryan H said:

 

USCIS has nothing and will have nothing to do with the actual decision on whether or not to issue your husband a visa, visa issuing decisions are the sole purview of CO's at an embassy or consulate.

 

Allow me to clarify what you have read:

• spouse visa applicant refused visa, stated reason is lack of bona fide relationship
• file sent back with recommendation to revoke
• USCIS receives file and reviews notes, they will see specific reasons why the visa was refused (the applicant will not have seen these)
• USCIS can either re-affirm their original approval or issue a Notice of Intent to Revoke (NOIR)
• If an NOIR is sent out, the petitioner will then have the opportunity to see the specific reasons why the visa was refused and will need to submit evidence refuting those reasons.  Additionally, a petitioner will have a deadline in which they will need to submit their rebuttal.
• When the rebuttal is received an reviewed, USCIS will either re-affirm their original approval and send the case back for another interview or they will revoke their original approval.
• If the case is re-affirmed and another visa interview takes place, a visa most certainly can be denied again for lack of bona fide relationship but it would require the CO to have new evidence as to why that conclusion was reached (i.e. a CO can not use the same underlying reasons as to why a relationship is not bon fide).

 

Now OP, since you filed a whole new petition, everything about the previous case is fair game and you have an extremely high hurdle to overcome.  If you can prove misconduct on the part of Embassy personnel then that is something you should have addressed by the appropriate authorities.

Excellent response.  I'm glad I didn't have to type all that myself.  I would be late for the UFC.

 

If you're looking for a sure thing, you are not going to find it.

[SalishSea 17,829]

OP, have you read any of the 129-f administrative decisions on the USCIS website (under "Legal Resources")?  I have spent much of the last several months reading nearly every one during spells of insomnia (LOL), and one concept that I now understand very well is *totality,* and how it is used in adjudicating cases and making immigration decisions.  I don't doubt that your husband was treated poorly at his interview, and I don't know anything about the Pakistan embassy, but just from reading all of these decisions, I would say that there may be contributing factors that are as yet unknown.

[geowrian 22,337]

As stated, they cannot refuse the visa for the same reason with the same evidence on a reaffirmed petition. They can refuse the visa for another reason or due to other evidence than noted on the NOIR.

If you filed a new petition, then they can consider the same evidence for refusal again. It's essentially starting over from step 1 and everything is fair game again.

 

6 hours ago, Love To Teach said:

IF he gets another interview in Pakistan, his ex, kids, and neighbor will be at the embassy for that interview. It's astounding that they refuse to accept the obvious.

The beneficiary is the only one guaranteed to be allowed into the visa interview section of the embassy, let alone the room/window where they do the interview. The petitioner may or may not be allowed. Others are generally prohibited. Check with the embassy on who they will permit entry into the interview area.

 

6 hours ago, Love To Teach said:

PS--It's a sad day when sworn testimony before a high court judge is not seen as "evidence."

The fact is people lie all the time. They need documentation.

[Love To Teach 161]

"The fact is people lie all the time. They need documentation." (quote)

 

We have documentation from their government that they are divorced. We have statements from everyone involved that he is divorced. But he wrote that coerced false confession under duress. How do you prove it when they don't tape interviews? We do have statements saying that he told his son, neighbor, and doctor about the "interview" because he became so sick from it. What does it take to make them believe it???? They KNOW that those CO's are intimidating people, scaring them, and forcing them under threats to write dictated false statements. Even the language they dictate for these confessions for the people to write is ridiculous and is language nobody would use. It's so obvious that the papers are written under pressure and not the writer's language.

 

Does the truth about the divorce documents not matter? What else can a person do but provide the divorce papers that are official? It makes me want to scream...they know what they are doing and it is wrong in every way and is totally against what CO's are supposed to be doing.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Love To Teach

[pushbrk 12,883]

Unfortunately his admissions are part of the record to. You are free to do the best you can to try again, but I really do advise getting help from a qualified Immigration Attorney with experience dealing with prior denials of family based immigrant visas.

[Love To Teach 161]

We do have a lawyer where I live and a lawyer in Pakistan.

[Scandi 4,166]

On 10/6/2018 at 1:55 PM, Love To Teach said:

We appealed, provided proof he was divorced, but they said too bad, he signed a paper saying he was married. Even his ex and kids testified that he is indeed divorced. We refiled, got additional testimony, filed a complaint about the behavior of the CO at the embassy. The denial said they don't know why we didn't file a formal complaint then. Are they stupid? We wanted a second interview. Do they think we are gonna file a complaint at that point. BUT when refused, we did file the complaint.

 

But how do you prove it happened? They purposely do not film or record interviews because then it would be obvious how they treat people. All they had to do was be reasonable....why would my husband "willingly" write a statement that he is still married when he had all his divorce papers right there in the "terror" room? Reasonable answer: Nobody would unless they were terrorized to the point of blanking out. He still thinks they could accuse him of being a terrorist and hurt his family. And why not? They have that power. It's insane. We aren't giving up, no matter what happens.

 

IF he gets another interview in Pakistan, his ex, kids, and neighbor will be at the embassy for that interview. It's astounding that they refuse to accept the obvious.

The bolded part.. so your husband lied about being married? 

 

"Terror room" or not, lying is bad, especially lying about something like that at a VISA interview.

[Love To Teach 161]

They terrorized him so badly, he would have done anything to escape that room. They told him what to write. He actually went blank. I know it's hard to understand, but he still thinks they could make him out to be a terrorist and harm his family. I suppose unless you live in a police state that is totally corrupt, it's hard to understand. His divorce papers were laying there in our papers. They screamed and yelled at him until he did what they told him to do. He still gets sick when he thinks about it. Of course, lying is bad, you don't think we don't know that? I was mad at him, but maybe I would have done the same thing if I thought it was my only way to escape their terrorizing. The weird thing is my husband is probably one of the last honest men in Pakistan. He hates corruption, never lies. That is what is so bizarre. He is a quiet, nice, calm guy who has never even been screamed at like that before. They get you so confused and won't let up, you are unable to think straight. Go read about how police terrorize people into writing "coerced false confessions." It's a common police tactic. He just didn't know they would do that to him. He expected an interview. He got a terror session. They can get just about anybody to do it. They have done this to multitudes of people.

 

You're from Sweden--you have no idea how they treat people in Pakistan at those interviews. I have heard tons of stories. They have even threatened to have people hanged, thrown papers in peoples' faces, called them liars and cheats. There is no end to what they will do to entrap people. This is one reason people don't tell on here what has happened to them. Because they are embarrassed and people say ugly things about them.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Love To Teach

[Scandi 4,166]

We are talking about an American embassy here, not a police state.

 

This story smells fishy, are you sure your husband is honest with you and that the CO isn't on to something? The US embassy COs are just "out to get him" for no reason at all?

[pushbrk 12,883]

1 hour ago, Love To Teach said:

We do have a lawyer where I live and a lawyer in Pakistan.

Then you don't need our opinions.  Follow the lawyers' advice.

[Love To Teach 161]

OMG--this is exactly the response I am talking about. Have you not read anything about that embassy? The embassy there uses Pakistani CO's to do their dirty work. They have THEM do the abuse so that they can keep their hands clean. Read up on some of the stories and you will know what I am talking about. The CO probably didn't like the fact I have 4 divorces, one from a Moroccan. So they manufacture lies to upset people. I think I know my husband after 8 years, thank you. Do you think I make this stuff up for heaven's sake?  You need to open your eyes and see the reality of how the US embassies are treating people in some of the countries. Your attitude is why I hate even coming on here. Goodbye, folks, have a nice day.

[pushbrk 12,883]

In my experience, a sufficiently motivated person who WILL lie about one thing (Duress is a motivation.) will lie about other things too.  I expect other adults have common experience.  I KNOW trained Consular Officers do.  Even assuming your husband's only lies were in the statement he wrote and signed under duress, you are going to have an uphill battle overcoming that signed statement in his own hand.  Listen to your lawyers.  I hope ONE of them has experience overcoming similar issues and is actually in charge.

[Love To Teach 161]

On 10/7/2018 at 12:58 AM, pushbrk said:

Then you don't need our opinions.  Follow the lawyers' advice.

You're right because they are usually rude. So many people have talked about how they are put down on this site. It's sad really. You say people don't want to hear your opinions, but what you mean is people are too stupid to know the truth. I honestly don't think that is true. It's sad to put people down when they are already struggling.

[Love To Teach 161]

On 10/7/2018 at 1:03 AM, pushbrk said:

In my experience, a sufficiently motivated person who WILL lie about one thing (Duress is a motivation.) will lie about other things too.  I expect other adults have common experience.  I KNOW trained Consular Officers do.  Even assuming your husband's only lies were in the statement he wrote and signed under duress, you are going to have an uphill battle overcoming that signed statement in his own hand.  Listen to your lawyers.  I hope ONE of them has experience overcoming similar issues and is actually in charge.

I disagree, but then again I am NOT an expert like some of you. At 67, I think I have had a few experiences. Yes, people will lie under certain situations, but that doesn't mean they will lie about other things. Everyone on the planet has had occasion to lie. I'm sure you have never lied in your life, right? So using your theory, anyone who lies once will lie about other things. Well, that includes you also, correct? Unless you have never lied in your entire life.  

Edited October 7, 2018 by Love To Teach