dual citizenship confusion!

[alf_b 0]

Hi

I'm an American living in Canada, married to a Canadian. We have an infant son, born in Canada.

We're planning on taking a trip to the States the summer for our son to see my parents. I want to get his Record of Birth Abroad first.

So, we call the U.S. Embassy in Calgary (in which we must PAY to make this phone call), and the consular officer there told us that under no circumstances does the U.S. allow dual citizenship, that when we get our son's Record of Birth Abroad he MUST renounce his Canadian citizenship and that the consulate office WILL make sure they let the Canadian government know that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship if we get his ROBA!!!!

I'm in tears, saddened, and so greatly confused right now. The AMCITS site on dual citizenship says differently, so I don't know who is right, or what to do to get official, correct information. What should I do? I always thought my son could enjoy the best of both countries without border issues, but now it seems that he can't!

Any help would be appreciated, and thanks in advance...

[chocolaterie 0]

That officer needs to reread his own laws. You can be a dual citizen (Canada + USA). I say call a different embassy like the one maybe in Toronto or vancouver? Don't cry! His foolish words aren't worth your tears.

"One can hold both U.S and Canadian citizenships but one must always enter the U.S. as an American and maintain allegiance to the U.S"

http://www.amcits.com/dual.asp

[Kanyiri 0]

I have a friend who is a dual citizen with Canada-US. She lived her entire life in Canada and then joined the US Peace Corps with no problem (USPC only allows US citizens). I don't know how to go about it, but I know it is possible.

[zyggy 9]

I have a friend who is a dual citizen with Canada-US. She lived her entire life in Canada and then joined the US Peace Corps with no problem (USPC only allows US citizens). I don't know how to go about it, but I know it is possible.

Renouncing one previous citizenship is not a prerequsite to getting US Citizenship. The person at the consulate was giving you misinformation. I am a dual citizen who has both US and Canadian Citizenships and had them both at birth.

The US has no jurisdiction in how another country recognizes their own citizens. However, in the US, the US Government only recognizes you as a US CItizen. So go ahead and fild for the Consular Record of Birth. I can assure you that you or you child will not be forced to give up their Canadian Citizenship...

Edited March 23, 2006 by zyggy

[neiks 19]

So, we call the U.S. Embassy in Calgary (in which we must PAY to make this phone call), and the consular officer there told us that under no circumstances does the U.S. allow dual citizenship, that when we get our son's Record of Birth Abroad he MUST renounce his Canadian citizenship and that the consulate office WILL make sure they let the Canadian government know that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship if we get his ROBA!!!!

What you were told was complete bull$#@&!

Renouncing Canadian citizenship is more than a phone call from the US Embassy to the Canadian Embassy saying these parents are making their child a US citizen. A formal application has to be made and I really really doubt that the Canadian embassy would even accept it for a child by the parents.

But like zyggy said when you have "dual" citizenship you are recognized as a US citizen not Canadian or "dual" and vice versa for Canada. So when entering into the US you say you are a US citizen and when entering into Canada you say you are a Canadian citizen. Just ensure that you have proof of both when crossing back and forth between the US and Canada, ie, passport and birth certificate, etc

[alf_b 0]

So, we call the U.S. Embassy in Calgary (in which we must PAY to make this phone call), and the consular officer there told us that under no circumstances does the U.S. allow dual citizenship, that when we get our son's Record of Birth Abroad he MUST renounce his Canadian citizenship and that the consulate office WILL make sure they let the Canadian government know that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship if we get his ROBA!!!!

What you were told was complete bull$#@&!

Renouncing Canadian citizenship is more than a phone call from the US Embassy to the Canadian Embassy saying these parents are making their child a US citizen. A formal application has to be made and I really really doubt that the Canadian embassy would even accept it for a child by the parents.

But like zyggy said when you have "dual" citizenship you are recognized as a US citizen not Canadian or "dual" and vice versa for Canada. So when entering into the US you say you are a US citizen and when entering into Canada you say you are a Canadian citizen. Just ensure that you have proof of both when crossing back and forth between the US and Canada, ie, passport and birth certificate, etc

I agee that it is bullshit. I would love to get proof of both for my son, but I've come across this snag. And I can't get him a passport without his ROBA The only thing I can think of doing is getting permission from a friend to use their credit card again (since we don't have one of our own and you cannot call the consulate without paying for the call and you cannot do that without a credit card), call again, and hope we get a different person with more accurate information.

And to clarify: the officer stated that after we file for our son's ROBA in person, the consulate sends a form off to the Canadian government stating that our son has renounced his Canadian citizenship. So, according to her, the renouncing process does not happen with a phone call, but she made it sound like a simple, standard part of the process to get our son's ROBA.

[zyggy 9]

So, we call the U.S. Embassy in Calgary (in which we must PAY to make this phone call), and the consular officer there told us that under no circumstances does the U.S. allow dual citizenship, that when we get our son's Record of Birth Abroad he MUST renounce his Canadian citizenship and that the consulate office WILL make sure they let the Canadian government know that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship if we get his ROBA!!!!

What you were told was complete bull$#@&!

Renouncing Canadian citizenship is more than a phone call from the US Embassy to the Canadian Embassy saying these parents are making their child a US citizen. A formal application has to be made and I really really doubt that the Canadian embassy would even accept it for a child by the parents.

But like zyggy said when you have "dual" citizenship you are recognized as a US citizen not Canadian or "dual" and vice versa for Canada. So when entering into the US you say you are a US citizen and when entering into Canada you say you are a Canadian citizen. Just ensure that you have proof of both when crossing back and forth between the US and Canada, ie, passport and birth certificate, etc

I agee that it is bullshit. I would love to get proof of both for my son, but I've come across this snag. And I can't get him a passport without his ROBA The only thing I can think of doing is getting permission from a friend to use their credit card again (since we don't have one of our own and you cannot call the consulate without paying for the call and you cannot do that without a credit card), call again, and hope we get a different person with more accurate information.

And to clarify: the officer stated that after we file for our son's ROBA in person, the consulate sends a form off to the Canadian government stating that our son has renounced his Canadian citizenship. So, according to her, the renouncing process does not happen with a phone call, but she made it sound like a simple, standard part of the process to get our son's ROBA.

That person was wrong... period... There is no renounciation process. At all...

Save your money on this misinformation line... I suggest that you take your things (Child's BC, Your BC, Marriage certificate), go to the consulate and apply for the Consular Record of Birth. Your child is eligible for it, he is a US CItizen already, you're just apply for evidence of that...

He will not lose his Canadian Citizenship at all... I repeat.. he WILL NOT lose his Canadian Citizenship at all...

[zyggy 9]

So, we call the U.S. Embassy in Calgary (in which we must PAY to make this phone call), and the consular officer there told us that under no circumstances does the U.S. allow dual citizenship, that when we get our son's Record of Birth Abroad he MUST renounce his Canadian citizenship and that the consulate office WILL make sure they let the Canadian government know that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship if we get his ROBA!!!!

What you were told was complete bull$#@&!

Renouncing Canadian citizenship is more than a phone call from the US Embassy to the Canadian Embassy saying these parents are making their child a US citizen. A formal application has to be made and I really really doubt that the Canadian embassy would even accept it for a child by the parents.

But like zyggy said when you have "dual" citizenship you are recognized as a US citizen not Canadian or "dual" and vice versa for Canada. So when entering into the US you say you are a US citizen and when entering into Canada you say you are a Canadian citizen. Just ensure that you have proof of both when crossing back and forth between the US and Canada, ie, passport and birth certificate, etc

I agee that it is bullshit. I would love to get proof of both for my son, but I've come across this snag. And I can't get him a passport without his ROBA The only thing I can think of doing is getting permission from a friend to use their credit card again (since we don't have one of our own and you cannot call the consulate without paying for the call and you cannot do that without a credit card), call again, and hope we get a different person with more accurate information.

And to clarify: the officer stated that after we file for our son's ROBA in person, the consulate sends a form off to the Canadian government stating that our son has renounced his Canadian citizenship. So, according to her, the renouncing process does not happen with a phone call, but she made it sound like a simple, standard part of the process to get our son's ROBA.

That person was wrong... period... There is no renounciation process. At all...

Save your money on this misinformation line... I suggest that you take your things (Child's BC, Your BC, Marriage certificate), go to the consulate and apply for the Consular Record of Birth. Your child is eligible for it, he is a US CItizen already, you're just apply for evidence of that...

He will not lose his Canadian Citizenship at all... I repeat.. he WILL NOT lose his Canadian Citizenship at all...

Neiks is a Canadian Customs officer.. I am a former CBP officer... If anyone knows the truth, the two of us do and not some phone jockey being paid $5.25 an hour to read off a script, which obviously he didn't do. I know of many many people who are citizens and have a consular record of birth.. I've seen many many people go through the border with consular records of birth.. and they didn't lose their Canadian citizenships because of it.

Actually it really pisses me off... how many other people is this person give this misinformation to. How many people are missing out on getting their consular record of birth because of this guy, and how many people are going to get screwed over when later in life they find out that this guy was lying through his teeth and have to go about getting a Certificate of Citizenship from USCIS instead of the Consular Record of Birth...

Edited March 24, 2006 by zyggy

[neiks 19]

Actually it really pisses me off... how many other people is this person give this misinformation to. How many people are missing out on getting their consular record of birth because of this guy, and how many people are going to get screwed over when later in life they find out that this guy was lying through his teeth and have to go about getting a Certificate of Citizenship from USCIS instead of the Consular Record of Birth...

I agree zyg! It really is amazing the number of people that believe that because they got their US citizen and carry a US passport that they are no longer Canadaian. When I ask what their citizenship is they say American and then I look at their passport and see they were born in Canada. When I ask if they have renounced their Candian citizenship throught the consulate they say no but thought they lost their Canadian citizenship when taking their US citizenship. NO NO - as far as I'm concerned they're Canadian!

[Jenn! 918]

Is it possible to be a dual citizen of the United States of America and another country?

YES -- in many cases.

If you have been a dual citizen from birth or childhood, or else became a citizen of another country after already having US citizenship, and the other country in question does not have any laws or regulations requiring you to formally renounce your US citizenship before US consular officials, then current US law unambiguously assures your right to keep both citizenships for life.

The US State Department -- traditionally quite combative in its handling of dual-citizenship claims -- has changed the way it handles these cases in recent years, and it is now much easier to retain such a status without a fight than it used to be.

The situation is slightly less clear for someone who becomes a US citizen via naturalization and still wishes to take advantage of his old citizenship. People who go through US naturalization are required to state under oath that they are renouncing their old citizenship, and conduct inconsistent with this pledge could theoretically lead to loss of one's US status.

However, the State Department is no longer actively pursuing cases of this nature in most situations. In particular, when a new American's "old country" refuses to recognize the US naturalization oath (with its renunciatory clause) as having any effect on its own citizenship laws -- and insists that the person in question must continue to deal with his old country as a citizen thereof (e.g., by using that country's passport when travelling there to visit) -- the US State Department no longer minds.

Similarly, the State Department doesn't seem to be doing anything any more to people who renounce their US citizenship as part of a foreign country's "routine" naturalization procedure (in a manner similar to what the US makes its new citizens do). However, if the other country in question requires its newly naturalized citizens to approach officials of their old countries to revoke their previous status, one will generally not be able to remain a citizen both of that country and the US.

from http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

[Reba 2]

I'm quite certain that Canadian officials would not accept a notice of renunciation for an underage child that was submitted by anyone other than that child's parents or legal guardians! I am also quite certain that the child's renunciation would have to be included with the parent's renunciation! What a crock of horseshit!

Seriously, I would report this person to their supervisors for being such an idiot. Write a letter of complaint and tell them of the pain and stress this person's erroneous comments have caused you and your family. Honestly! Who trains these people? sheesh!

[Boiler 45,537]

I'm quite certain that Canadian officials would not accept a notice of renunciation for an underage child that was submitted by anyone other than that child's parents or legal guardians! I am also quite certain that the child's renunciation would have to be included with the parent's renunciation! What a crock of horseshit!

Seriously, I would report this person to their supervisors for being such an idiot. Write a letter of complaint and tell them of the pain and stress this person's erroneous comments have caused you and your family. Honestly! Who trains these people? sheesh!

They are call centre staff on probably $10 an hour - give them a chance. My only surprise is that it was not put through to India.

Asking, and expecting, proper legal advice is asking a bit.

[Reba 2]

if a "help line" is advertised as such, then we should expect "help" when we call it. Espcially when it is a service that you have to pay for! If the person answering the phone does not know the answer to the question then it should be passed on to someone who *does* know, rather than they just make something up on the spot.

Personally, I'd find out if the call was recorded when I filed my complaint.