People Can't Pay Rent, Debt Is Insane, and the Economy Is Somehow 'Great'

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Quote

There is not a single county in America where someone earning minimum wage can afford to rent a two-bedroom apartment while working a normal 40-hour week. More shocking: You would have to work 122 hours a week for all 52 weeks of the year to afford rent on a two-bedroom at the national average rate on the federal minimum wage of $7.25. You don't need to be a democratic socialist firebrand or an advocate for the poor or even a policy wonk to see that something is deeply, deeply out of whack here.

why anyone has the illusion that minimum wage is meant to live on is beyond me.  the issue here is why one

doesn't learn a usable skill that will earn more than the minimum wage.

[yuna628 9,676]

13 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I don't remember the minimum wage ever being implemented so that someone could rent an apartment, or raise a family.  I started working at the minimum wage when I was 13 years old and sure, it would have been nice if it had been more so I could have moved out and rented an apartment, but I don't think I was ready.  Housing is much more affordable if one pursues improving themselves, and it has been that way for a real long time.  Since this piece is a big dig at Trump (based on the headline, I didn't read the piece since it was from a hugely leftist biased news/opinion organization. 

There are plenty of people that don't work minimum wage, have what I'd think anyone would consider a good job, and still can't afford housing and there are many factors involved in this. I don't directly see the headline as a dig at Trump, only that there are not all aspects of this economy that are working well or are 'great'. Nevermind the Sanders thing, as I personally think he has about as much understanding of economics as Trump himself.

 

We shouldn't expect that minimum wage can be utilized to afford rent, however there are many persons in situations that have to do just that. Those that are going to a technical college or other college to learn a better new skill, are likely also going to be in a minimum wage bracket, and if they aren't, and are lucky enough to find a job making above that, it's very likely in this economy they still cannot afford housing. One reason why kids with families are moving in with parents, and parents are moving in with kids.

Edited August 28, 2018 by yuna628

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

There are plenty of people that don't work minimum wage, have what I'd think anyone would consider a good job, and still can't afford housing and there are many factors involved in this. I don't directly see the headline as a dig at Trump, only that there are not all aspects of this economy that are working well or are 'great'. Nevermind the Sanders thing, as I personally think he has about as much understanding of economics as Trump himself.

there is nothing about sanders in the op other than he sponsored the research.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

37 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Well I know from experience that rent is far too high, not only in my current county, but also into the next state over. That is certainly not to say that there are places where rent is lower. In that regard you would have to move to areas that are considered unsafe, rat infested, and lacking some amenities such as an extra bedroom or a W/D.

 

It's one of the reasons we've elected to not move yet. However, he's applied for another promotion, and if successful that should be more than enough to move somewhere decent. But largely, we've been talking these days about renting vs home ownership, and for our needs it would be overwhelmingly better to buy our first home. That's what my best friend did, and she certainly successfully did it on one income. We've worked hard to build credit, and I think it's a good option for us too.

 

He's had to sit in on governor's meetings discussing the rental/housing situation for the state. While wages are low and inflation is high and that's very problematic, a bigger problem is overinflated prices in general, lack of space vs demand, and in the more populous areas there are multiple colleges which take up a great deal of housing space and drive costs up. Rent in developing areas are even very high for businesses. This is not a new thing even, and is steadily been increasing. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/rent-is-too-expensive/396971/ It is not entirely due to credit card debt. There many be some that yes will have difficulties obtaining credit especially since banks are becoming wary of past practices where loans were handed out like candy. Not enough rental housing is being built, and not enough people are deciding to buy vs rent. Housing prices too have soared once again, and are likely overinflated. Only a few cities has rental prices dropped a bit, that is usually due to more places being built. However the downside is many of these are luxury buildings and not anything that offers decent basic housing that would fit the average person's needs.

 

It's great that she found a P/T job like that but that wouldn't be enough for her to rent on her own if you weren't around. My husband was only able to get P/T initially and certainly made more than your wife, but that still wouldn't be enough to afford rent. Even with his current F/T working from 7-5:30 + overtime it's not enough. And he has what I'd consider a pretty sweet job. We could do it, yes, but we'd be struggling, living in a bad area, and likely be limited to a studio apartment. No skill required jobs even at F/T in this area simply would not pay a person enough money to afford rent, not even if that job offered good insurance.

It would if she got a roommate like I did when I could not afford a nice apt on my own

[NikLR 13,227]

9 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

why anyone has the illusion that minimum wage is meant to live on is beyond me.  the issue here is why one doesn't learn a usable skill that will earn more than the minimum wage.

Even above minimum wage you can't live on your own.  I make well above minimum wage but well below what is affordable even for a 1 bedroom apartment in a shitty neighborhood where I may get shot.  Without my husband I would never afford to live on my own in this state.  It's not like I don't have a lot of work experience that's relatable to a variety of jobs.  15 years of customer service....   Granted I could go be a dishwasher for more than I make now, but I certainly wouldn't have room to grow.  The number of jobs where you make $30/hr isn't exactly overwhelming either. The most I've seen for starter positions in a 1 hr drive radius is $15/hr.   Generally they start out at $11 or $12.  Burger King pays experienced night managers $18/hr.  That's still not enough to rent a 1 bedroom apartment here on your own, let alone a 2 bedroom plus a kid or two and child care because you aren't home at night. 

 

Funny story is that I could easily afford to live on my own in Canada making only slightly more than I am now, not double what I am now.  

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

You been doing what you doing for 15 years and could make more as a dishwasher , but no advancement potential ? Hmmm

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

I grew up in the suburbs of Boston, when I found myself unable to afford to live there, I researched areas I could live and afford in a manner I wanted to live and moved, was it painful, yes, did I miss my family, yes. Sometimes reaching your goals takes sacrifice.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

41 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Even above minimum wage you can't live on your own.  I make well above minimum wage but well below what is affordable even for a 1 bedroom apartment in a shitty neighborhood where I may get shot.  Without my husband I would never afford to live on my own in this state.  It's not like I don't have a lot of work experience that's relatable to a variety of jobs.  15 years of customer service....   Granted I could go be a dishwasher for more than I make now, but I certainly wouldn't have room to grow.  The number of jobs where you make $30/hr isn't exactly overwhelming either. The most I've seen for starter positions in a 1 hr drive radius is $15/hr.   Generally they start out at $11 or $12.  Burger King pays experienced night managers $18/hr.  That's still not enough to rent a 1 bedroom apartment here on your own, let alone a 2 bedroom plus a kid or two and child care because you aren't home at night. 

 

Funny story is that I could easily afford to live on my own in Canada making only slightly more than I am now, not double what I am now.  

The median income for a household in the city was $49,823, and the median income for a family was $61,576. Males had a median income of $49,693 versus $30,888 for females. The per capita income for the city was $23,102. About 9.8% of families and 12.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 16.4% of those under age 18 and 10.0% of those age 65 or over.[7]

(wikipedia)

Edited August 28, 2018 by Ban Hammer

[2018JNJ 141]

I was homeless at a point in my life..worked many a minimum wage job.  But I put myself through college..got a couple of degrees..and am doing pretty well.  So I guess I don't understand how someone not improving his/her self and their environment is somehow someone else's fault but their own.  Victims will always be.

 

I'd say Trump knows a little about economics..

 

And "vice"..

 

jj

[smilesammich 10,727]

Quote

More broadly, the divergence between the performance of the overall economy and the lot of the average American worker has exploded over the past few decades. Even if the economy really is humming on all cylinders right now, it's not exactly shocking that basic necessities like rent and escaping debt would still be out of reach for many Americans.

"We decided on all these policies that had the effect of redistributing income upward—that's a four decade long story," Dean Baker, co-founder of the left-leaning Center for Economic and Policy Research, told me. "You're not going to reverse that in two or three or four years."

and we've still got the same tired 'playing victim' and 'bootstraps' nonsense.

the reality that the average american worker cannot reasonably afford basic necessities without incurring massive debt has nothing to do with self improvement or "when i was young, i worked hard/sacrificed unlike kids today.."

[2018JNJ 141]

14 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

and we've still got the same tired 'playing victim' and 'bootstraps' nonsense.

the reality that the average american worker cannot reasonably afford basic necessities without incurring massive debt has nothing to do with self improvement or "when i was young, i worked hard/sacrificed unlike kids today.."

Hahahahaha..

ok.

So the average american worker cannot afford shelter, clothing, and food?  

Or is it more the average american worker over extends so as to try to keep up with who they idolize?

It doesn't take much money to live on.

Heck, I did with none.

Has everything to do with behaviour and self control.

I'd hate to live my life thinking the way some of you do.

The only person holding you back is you...no one else.

 

jj

[smilesammich 10,727]

19 minutes ago, 2018JNJ said:

Hahahahaha..

ok.

So the average american worker cannot afford shelter, clothing, and food?  

Or is it more the average american worker over extends so as to try to keep up with who they idolize?

It doesn't take much money to live on.

Heck, I did with none.

Has everything to do with behaviour and self control.

I'd hate to live my life thinking the way some of you do.

The only person holding you back is you...no one else.

 

jj

you might try responding to my entire statement and not just the portion that serves your purpose.

the average american worker cannot afford the basics without incurring massive debt.

 

concerning your claim that you have lived without money (none, as you say), i don't believe you.

Edited August 28, 2018 by smilesammich

[2018JNJ 141]

From an article on this subject..

 

"Rising costs for her care, even with insurance, have her juggling bills to get by — such as paying her cellphone or electricity bill one month and not the next. And she still feels like one of the lucky ones as she is able to survive."

 

A cellphone is not a basic necessity.

Electricity is nice to have.

A roof and dry place to sleep is nice as well.

And 2,000 calories of food is sufficient.  

Clothing is much appreciated.  

 

So again, it doesn't take much to live.

It does take much to live like a person might want to live.

And if a cellphone is desired..well it takes a bit more.

 

jj

[2018JNJ 141]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

you might try responding to my entire statement and not just the portion that serves your purpose.

the average american worker cannot afford the basics without incurring massive debt.

 

concerning your claim that you have lived without money (none, as you say), i don't believe you.

Doesn't matter to me what you believe.

What are the basics?

Food, Clothing, Shelter.

Plenty of places to get free food, clothing, and shelter.

 

jj

 

[smilesammich 10,727]

4 minutes ago, 2018JNJ said:

Doesn't matter to me what you believe.

What are the basics?

Food, Clothing, Shelter.

Plenty of places to get free food, clothing, and shelter.

 

jj

 

ok, i was never discussing where to get free stuff.. nice chatting with you.