People Can't Pay Rent, Debt Is Insane, and the Economy Is Somehow 'Great'

[smilesammich 10,727]

Quote

It's not exactly a secret that the way America measures economic growth can leave regular people wondering why and how they're still struggling just to survive. Unemployment, as President Trump took care to remind us with another unhinged and hyperbolic tweet this week, is at an almost 50-year low. After a spectacular 2017 and iffy early stretch this year, the stock market is once again trading high. Banks just enjoyed their most profitable quarter ever, encouraging the chair of the Federal Reserve—Wall Street vet and Trump pick Jerome Powell—to declare the economy in "great shape" Wednesday, and even raise interest rates on the debt owed by millions of Americans. On the surface, things look good, right? 

Maybe that's why a new report from the Low Income Housing Coalition, a liberal advocacy group working in partnership with Senator Bernie Sanders, landed with such a resounding thud Wednesday. The chief takeaway wasn't even the most breathtaking, even if it still felt like a gut punch: There is not a single county in America where someone earning minimum wage can afford to rent a two-bedroom apartment while working a normal 40-hour week. More shocking: You would have to work 122 hours a week for all 52 weeks of the year to afford rent on a two-bedroom at the national average rate on the federal minimum wage of $7.25. You don't need to be a democratic socialist firebrand or an advocate for the poor or even a policy wonk to see that something is deeply, deeply out of whack here.

Part of what's going on is that even as unemployment is extremely low and the macroeconomic picture looks rosy, actual workers' incomes aren't necessarily rising the way they should be. And as Eric Levitz noted at New York, inflation—now higher than it's been since 2012—is gobbling up any extra money that is being brought in these days by those who aren't extremely wealthy. Meanwhile, many Americans are spending whatever extra income they might be enjoying during these so-called boom times making a dent—and not necessarily a very large one—in their credit card debt. Their $40.3 billion in credit-card payments last quarter, according to MarketWatch, represented the second-biggest outlay toward digging themselves out of that hole since early 2009. The problem is that their new credit-card debt at the end of last year was the highest in a decade, at $91.6 billion.

Decades of the government helping the rich are coming home to roost.

[Dashinka 24,489]

So what is Bernie's plan with respect to the debt?  Add another 50 trillion to it with his give-aways?

[smilesammich 10,727]

6 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So what is Bernie's plan with respect to the debt?  Add another 50 trillion to it with his give-aways?

bernie's report was about the affordability of housing. for example, the hourly wage needed to afford a 2 bedroom rental apartment is 30.19 per hour. you seem like a smart guy, do you think this - coupled with america's exceedingly high credit- card debt is sustainable? 

Edited August 28, 2018 by smilesammich

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

then initiate comprehensive credit card reform and stop allowing cc companies to increase their rates 300% on a whim, tighten credit to make it harder to obtain high limit CCs, enact rules to require repayment in a 3 year term not a 19 year term

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

then initiate comprehensive credit card reform and stop allowing cc companies to increase their rates 300% on a whim, tighten credit to make it harder to obtain high limit CCs, enact rules to require repayment in a 3 year term not a 19 year term

do you expect trump's ftc to regulate banks in such a manner?

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

no I don't, nor did I Obama's or Bush's or Clinton's or the other Bush's

 

predatory credit has been around a long time especially considering most credit issuers are funding this on government money borrowed at the prime rate

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

no I don't, nor did I Obama's or Bush's or Clinton's or the other Bush's

 

predatory credit has been around a long time especially considering most credit issuers are funding this on government money borrowed at the prime rate

there are predatory practices that were curbed by prior administrations, not sure how you can say trump won't do anything cause no one else did. 

i don't think i said anything about trump creating predatory creditor practices.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Min wage jobs are meant to be a career. If you cant rise above a min wage job after about 6 months in the work force, especially in this economy, something is wrong with you. 

 

When my wife decided after 5 years hse wanted to work, her first Job was 8 bucks per hour. It was just mad money for her, as I pay most of the bills.

 

Very quickly she found another job that is paying her 11 dollars an hour P/T with great health insurance for 20 bucks a month. Flexible schedule, paid vacation etc. They are always short on people and looking to hire.No skill required 

[smilesammich 10,727]

14 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Min wage jobs are meant to be a career. If you cant rise above a min wage job after about 6 months in the work force, especially in this economy, something is wrong with you. 

 

When my wife decided after 5 years hse wanted to work, her first Job was 8 bucks per hour. It was just mad money for her, as I pay most of the bills.

 

Very quickly she found another job that is paying her 11 dollars an hour P/T with great health insurance for 20 bucks a month. Flexible schedule, paid vacation etc. They are always short on people and looking to hire.No skill required 

that's awesome for her. 

did you check the wage that would be required to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in your area? it's easy to say minimum jobs aren't meant to be a career and i agree with you, but it really means nothing in the grand scheme of things for working families trying to maintain a household.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

21 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

there are predatory practices that were curbed by prior administrations, not sure how you can say trump won't do anything cause no one else did. 

i don't think i said anything about trump creating predatory creditor practices.

I am not sure where you read that I accused you of stating predatory creditor practices, you asked me if I thought Trump would act, I said I expected no recent president of acting, I also did not suggest Trump would not act.

 

The fact that you took my statement to mean other than what I said is on you, the discussion was overwhelming debt, I suggested a way to cure it, like my idea or not, don't apply your flavor to it and accuse me based on your views  

[yuna628 9,671]

Well I know from experience that rent is far too high, not only in my current county, but also into the next state over. That is certainly not to say that there are places where rent is lower. In that regard you would have to move to areas that are considered unsafe, rat infested, and lacking some amenities such as an extra bedroom or a W/D.

 

It's one of the reasons we've elected to not move yet. However, he's applied for another promotion, and if successful that should be more than enough to move somewhere decent. But largely, we've been talking these days about renting vs home ownership, and for our needs it would be overwhelmingly better to buy our first home. That's what my best friend did, and she certainly successfully did it on one income. We've worked hard to build credit, and I think it's a good option for us too.

 

He's had to sit in on governor's meetings discussing the rental/housing situation for the state. While wages are low and inflation is high and that's very problematic, a bigger problem is overinflated prices in general, lack of space vs demand, and in the more populous areas there are multiple colleges which take up a great deal of housing space and drive costs up. Rent in developing areas are even very high for businesses. This is not a new thing even, and is steadily been increasing. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/rent-is-too-expensive/396971/ It is not entirely due to credit card debt. There many be some that yes will have difficulties obtaining credit especially since banks are becoming wary of past practices where loans were handed out like candy. Not enough rental housing is being built, and not enough people are deciding to buy vs rent. Housing prices too have soared once again, and are likely overinflated. Only a few cities has rental prices dropped a bit, that is usually due to more places being built. However the downside is many of these are luxury buildings and not anything that offers decent basic housing that would fit the average person's needs.

 

4 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Min wage jobs are meant to be a career. If you cant rise above a min wage job after about 6 months in the work force, especially in this economy, something is wrong with you. 

 

When my wife decided after 5 years hse wanted to work, her first Job was 8 bucks per hour. It was just mad money for her, as I pay most of the bills.

 

Very quickly she found another job that is paying her 11 dollars an hour P/T with great health insurance for 20 bucks a month. Flexible schedule, paid vacation etc. They are always short on people and looking to hire.No skill required 

It's great that she found a P/T job like that but that wouldn't be enough for her to rent on her own if you weren't around. My husband was only able to get P/T initially and certainly made more than your wife, but that still wouldn't be enough to afford rent. Even with his current F/T working from 7-5:30 + overtime it's not enough. And he has what I'd consider a pretty sweet job. We could do it, yes, but we'd be struggling, living in a bad area, and likely be limited to a studio apartment. No skill required jobs even at F/T in this area simply would not pay a person enough money to afford rent, not even if that job offered good insurance.

[Dashinka 24,489]

1 hour ago, smilesammich said:

bernie's report was about the affordability of housing. for example, the hourly wage needed to afford a 2 bedroom rental apartment is 30.19 per hour. you seem like a smart guy, do you think this - coupled with america's exceedingly high credit- card debt is sustainable? 

I don't remember the minimum wage ever being implemented so that someone could rent an apartment, or raise a family.  I started working at the minimum wage when I was 13 years old and sure, it would have been nice if it had been more so I could have moved out and rented an apartment, but I don't think I was ready.  Housing is much more affordable if one pursues improving themselves, and it has been that way for a real long time.  Since this piece is a big dig at Trump (based on the headline, I didn't read the piece since it was from a hugely leftist biased news/opinion organization. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

5 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

I am not sure where you read that I accused you of stating predatory creditor practices, you asked me if I thought Trump would act, I said I expected no recent president of acting, I also did not suggest Trump would not act.

 

The fact that you took my statement to mean other than what I said is on you, the discussion was overwhelming debt, I suggested a way to cure it, like my idea or not, don't apply your flavor to it and accuse me based on your views  

i don't know why we keep having these back and forths. i never said you accused me of anything. you said that predatory credit practices have been around for a long time, and i responded that i never said trump created predatory practices - because of course predatory practices have been around for a long time - and administrations have been trying to curb their efforts for a long time.

i am sort of confused because many of the ideas you offered are ideas that past administrations have tried to enact - and trump promptly began work on reversing their attempts to regulate.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

I don't remember the minimum wage ever being implemented so that someone could rent an apartment, or raise a family.  I started working at the minimum wage when I was 13 years old and sure, it would have been nice if it had been more so I could have moved out and rented an apartment, but I don't think I was ready.  Housing is much more affordable if one pursues improving themselves, and it has been that way for a real long time.  Since this piece is a big dig at Trump (based on the headline, I didn't read the piece since it was from a hugely leftist biased news/opinion organization. 

well jokes on you, because your comments don't have much of anything to do with the figures from the article. no point in discussing what you haven't read.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

i don't know why we keep having these back and forths. i never said you accused me of anything. you said that predatory credit practices have been around for a long time, and i responded that i never said trump created predatory practices - because of course predatory practices have been around for a long time - and administrations have been trying to curb their efforts for a long time.

i am sort of confused because many of the ideas you offered are ideas that past administrations have tried to enact - and trump promptly began work on reversing their attempts to regulate.

we have back and forth because we are polar extremes, I can live with that