Was my visa refused?

[Robbie 1]

11 minutes ago, cdneh said:

You have.  It's called a denial.

No, this is other way around. Single acceptance will be a proof of the opposite. Single denial is not a proof of anything, especially that we don't know the reason.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Robbie

[Robbie 1]

11 minutes ago, Roel said:

It's not as much about your job, but the fact that NOTHING stops you from staying in the US and living there. Since nothing ties you back to Europe.

Thank you, this is totally new for me as well. I really never knew that their reasoning was so heavily focused on the likelihood of coming back. Great to know that.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Robbie

[Russ&Caro 1,549]

4 minutes ago, Robbie said:

Thanks guys for giving me some perspective to how they see it.

 

However, remote IT work is a gray area only for people who don't know how it works. It's 100% legal and done by millions of people globally. Freelancing is no longer perceived as anything exotic. I guess...

I worked and traveled abroad in IT some years ago for IBM. As one of the largest IT companies, IBM had an interest in doing things right but I found they allowed individual employees to play a little loose with the rules in terms of work and travel. Theoretically, other than conferences, IBM employees should be getting work visas or work allowances in every country they travel to. In practice, the company and its employees take shortcuts. I traveled to and worked in South Africa on 3 trips of 2 to 3 weeks each. During the 3rd trip, IBM HR informed me that I needed to apply for work authorization in SA, but since that 3rd trip was ending, as was the project, we didn't bother to file the paperwork. On another trip to Costa Rica for 30 days, I should have applied for work authorization but didn't. In this case, IBM HR didn't even bother to notify me. As has been stated, this is a gray area that IT companies take advantage of. But just because it's gray doesn't mean taking advantage of the rules is right. And when countries do crack down on such abuse of the rules, we should not be surprised.

 

I also was on the opposite end where I managed projects inside the USA where we brought employees in from abroad. To avoid the risk of B1 visa rejection and subsequent delays on the project, I insisted every time that every person flying in from abroad had appropriate work visas. Your characterization of how IT companies handle these issues is somewhat correct but doesn't tell the entire story. Sometimes they play it fast and loose where the company's bottom line isn't materially affected, and other times they play it strictly by the book especially when there is big money involved. Unless you state otherwise, my guess is that your IT company wouldn't mind if you joined fellow employees in the US but they're not losing any sleep if you're not allowed to join, as well.

[Robbie 1]

10 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

freelancing in the US is quite common and quite legal as long as your are legally allowed to work

Remote freelancing is not location-based. You can stay wherever and work for whoever, as long as you pay taxes where you are a resident.

[WeGuyGal 1,052]

You can, technically speaking, apply for a B visa at any US Consulate not in your home country, as long as you're there legally. 

 

That being said, applying in Paris on a Polish passport has the effect of significantly reducing your ties to home. Any CO could see (and maybe this one did) that as an attempt to sidestep the processing in Poland where an applicant faces higher hurdles. 

[Robbie 1]

2 minutes ago, Russ&Caro said:

I worked and traveled abroad in IT some years ago for IBM. As one of the largest IT companies, IBM had an interest in doing things right but I found they allowed individual employees to play a little loose with the rules in terms of work and travel. Theoretically, other than conferences, IBM employees should be getting work visas or work allowances in every country they travel to. In practice, the company and its employees take shortcuts. I traveled to and worked in South Africa on 3 trips of 2 to 3 weeks each. During the 3rd trip, IBM HR informed me that I needed to apply for work authorization in SA, but since that 3rd trip was ending, as was the project, we didn't bother to file the paperwork. On another trip to Costa Rica for 30 days, I should have applied for work authorization but didn't. In this case, IBM HR didn't even bother to notify me. As has been stated, this is a gray area that IT companies take advantage of. But just because it's gray doesn't mean taking advantage of the rules is right. And when countries do crack down on such abuse of the rules, we should not be surprised.

 

I also was on the opposite end where I managed projects inside the USA where we brought employees in from abroad. To avoid the risk of B1 visa rejection and subsequent delays on the project, I insisted every time that every person flying in from abroad had appropriate work visas. Your characterization of how IT companies handle these issues is somewhat correct but doesn't tell the entire story. Sometimes they play it fast and loose where the company's bottom line isn't materially affected, and other times they play it strictly by the book especially when there is big money involved. Unless you state otherwise, my guess is that your IT company wouldn't mind if you joined fellow employees in the US but they're not losing any sleep if you're not allowed to join, as well.

Can you tell me what is the sense in that though? Working illegally is only harmful, because you abuse the tax system, right? But if you work remotely, you pay taxes at your own place. It is just pure tourism that is mixed with your own work for you clients. Why would the government care that I'm doing my work when I'm on vacation? Do I take a work from somebody else?

[Robbie 1]

3 minutes ago, WeGuyGal said:

You can, technically speaking, apply for a B visa at any US Consulate not in your home country, as long as you're there legally. 

 

That being said, applying in Paris on a Polish passport has the effect of significantly reducing your ties to home. Any CO could see (and maybe this one did) that as an attempt to sidestep the processing in Poland where an applicant faces higher hurdles. 

This is an expensive lesson for me

[Crazy Cat 42,046]

5 minutes ago, Robbie said:

Remote freelancing is not location-based. You can stay wherever and work for whoever, as long as you pay taxes where you are a resident.

Not true......You can not be physically inside the US and work for US clients unless you are authorized to work in the US.....at least that is how I see the law.

[geowrian 22,338]

1 minute ago, Robbie said:

Can you tell me what is the sense in that though? Working illegally is only harmful, because you abuse the tax system, right?

1) You must still pay US federal taxes as a non-resident alien (NRA) if you work while physically in the US over a minimum number of days / income.

2) The main issue is the perceived taking of a job that a US-authorized worker could do instead. It's arguable how much this applies to remote work, but that is one commonly argued point that has not been tested.

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

 

 I have at least two ideas:

 

1) My application was Refused, but this is the initial status when it's put on Hold. They "changed" it from Refused to Refused, so the "update date" wasn't changed.

 

Incorrect assumption. The “hold” status as you refer to it as “administrative processing”. Refused is...refused.

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

I agree, but European Union is different in theory.

As others have said.. the EU matters to the EU. Nowhere else, and especially not for US visa purposes. Example: not all EU countries qualify under VWP.

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

 

 

And you also seem to don't get the idea of the remote work, just like the woman at the embassy. Welcome to the XXI century.

Being sarcastic because you didn’t get what you want is not going to help you though.

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

I applied for B1/B2 though, so it's not a pure tourist visa.

 

If that's the case with the need of being a citizen, why wouldn't they reject the applications instantly? Like I said, this is not a rule and yes, EU is relevant here.

EU is not relevant and despite what you may think, if you are working remotely in the US that is not allowed in terms of B1. And obviously, being able to work remotely from the US increases the chances that you’ll overstay.

 

55 minutes ago, Robbie said:

You guys are probably right. They could have just thrown me to the same box with these people who exist illegally wherever. This is quite offensive for digital nomads though, who just travel and change their places.

While it might not suit your narrative, being a “digital nomad” also means you can’t really show the US consulate sufficient proof that you’ll leave when you’re suppsosd to. This is the number one reason for visa refusals, and probably is why yours was refused too. 

49 minutes ago, Robbie said:

But why would I need to return to my home country? Can't I just move to another country? There are really many people who live like that and I'm not even very intensive traveller comparing to some. I just like travel for several months in row, but never stay in one place for too long. These rules make wrong assumptions about me.

See above - you could “just move to another country”, from a US consulate perspective that “another country “ might be the US, illegally.

34 minutes ago, Robbie said:

Thanks guys for giving me some perspective to how they see it.

 

However, remote IT work is a gray area only for people who don't know how it works. It's 100% legal and done by millions of people globally. Freelancing is no longer perceived as anything exotic. I guess...

Many people freelance and are still able to show ties to a home ....unfortunately for you, you can’t. 

 

By by the way.... I am currently a remote freelancer. I really do get the concept

Edited August 23, 2018 by SusieQQQ

[Jeanne Adil 1,651]

and u said company paying for it means  business trip company must apply work visa

[NikLR 13,231]

The USA is really picky about who can work within it's borders.  Even if that's a B1 visa which means attending conferences and CE courses.  If you work within the USA, you need a work visa, period.  Even if your work is for people outside of the USA and you're being paid into a foreign bank account.  (which is where the grey area is to be honest.)

 

The point is, the USA is one of the only countries in the world where you are taxed on being a citizen or legal resident.  So as a green card holder, even if I worked for a foreign company, I would still have to file US taxes, and potentially pay US taxes on my earnings as well.  Any USC to lives outside the USA is required, by law, to file a US tax return (and potentially pay US taxes) even if they've never stepped foot in the USA their ENTIRE life.   IMHO it's archaic. 

 

The US also assumes everyone wants to live there and no one wants to leave once they are here.  You have to overcome that presumption whenever you apply for a visitor or work visa unless the visa is dual intent. 

 

Before attempting another b1/b2 or any other type of work visa you have to figure out how to overcome their presumption that you want to live and work here forever.  Your nomadic lifestyle doesn't really help in all honesty. 

[Roel 7,193]

17 minutes ago, Robbie said:

Can you tell me what is the sense in that though? Working illegally is only harmful, because you abuse the tax system, right? But if you work remotely, you pay taxes at your own place. It is just pure tourism that is mixed with your own work for you clients. Why would the government care that I'm doing my work when I'm on vacation? Do I take a work from somebody else?

Working illegally is harmful because you're taking the job away from US citizen and legal residents of USA.

 

People who are in the US illegally actually often also pay taxes.

 

I don't know the exact number, but if you're in the US long enough during a year - you also become "resident for tax purpose".

 

Let's say that during your freelancing in the US you'd be doing work for US clients - that's already considered illegal work.

 

But like I said - it's not as much about work, but the fact that you have no reason to return to your country after the visit to the US.

[Boiler 45,930]

If you work in the US generally speaking you pay taxes at the Federal and State level. I will not go into all the complications as they are both horrendous and beyond the scope of me and this forum.

 

There is no EU visa, certainly citizens in the EU do have rights to work in other EU member states, US is not part of the EU so all this is irrelevant. You may remember that Poles were delayed in accessing these rights, not in the UK but elsewhere.

 

B1 is basically for business use, meet customers attend conferences etc etc, if you want to work in the US you need a work visa.

 

Most EU citizens use the VWP to visit the US.

 

You can apply for a B in France, you did, but not usually advisable as the Consulate would be used to dealing with French residents are in less of a position to adjudicate foreign nationals Not really an issue in your case as there are plenty of reasons to deny you.

 

 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

34 minutes ago, Robbie said:

Remote freelancing is not location-based. You can stay wherever and work for whoever, as long as you pay taxes where you are a resident.

No as you are not allowed to work without legal authorization, that is a US law to do otherwise is illegal working