Guilty: 6 Takeaways From Manafort's And Cohen's Big Day

[yuna628 9,717]

3 hours ago, jg121783 said:

Because he did make any deals or attempt to make any deals before he was found guilty. Usually deal are made before trial not after.

Perhaps this is just another misnomer via our tv police/court procedurals, but a criminal can actually wave the white flag and make a deal with the prosecution in exchange for a reduction in a sentence or even the dropping of additional charges they may be facing after a trial. It does happen all the time.

Edited August 22, 2018 by yuna628

[Crazy Cat 42,328]

4 hours ago, smilesammich said:

as trump proclaims manafort is a great man who was so brave and did not break under pressure, cohen is not an attorney trump would recommend. good stuff.

Actually, he said "Good" man.......

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 minutes ago, missileman said:

Actually, he said "Good" man.......

well that changes everything.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

It's the beginning of the end, this is now officially worse than Watergate.

 

Mango Mussolini is on borrowed time. This is the most corrupt administration in my lifetime.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

What a shame. Got the MDL all worked up again. 

 

 

But former commissioner at the Federal Election Commission, Hans von Spakovsky, said that Cohen’s decision to plead guilty does not necessarily mean Trump violated the law.

“This is not a violation because this was not a campaign-related offense,” Spakovsky told Fox News on Wednesday. “Yes, Cohen pleaded guilty to it, yeah Cohen paid it, but then Cohen was reimbursed by Trump.”

The plea deal states that the payments were in fact meant to influence the election, though that could be argued by Trump's lawyers if it ever came to that. Spakovsky said Trump had a history of making these kinds of payments before he was a candidate. 

Further, Spakovsky said "a candidate can spend as much of their own money as they want to—even if it was a campaign-related expense.”

Harvard Law professor emeritus Alan Dershowitz, a frequent defender of the president, made a similar argument. 

“You have to show that it’s a crime,” he told “Fox & Friends.” He said it’s “not a crime” for a candidate like Trump to contribute to his own campaign, and probably not even a crime to direct someone else to contribute if he plans to pay that back.

Further, Dershowitz said, “The only evidence that the president did anything that might be unlawful … comes from a man who’s admitted to be a liar.”

 

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/22/legal-experts-clash-on-whether-cohen-plea-threatens-trump.html

 

Legal experts clash on whether Cohen plea threatens Trump

 

Never fails

 

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

25 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

It's the beginning of the end, this is now officially worse than Watergate.

 

Mango Mussolini is on borrowed time. This is the most corrupt administration in my lifetime.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

26 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

It's the beginning of the end, this is now officially worse than Watergate.

 

Mango Mussolini is on borrowed time. This is the most corrupt administration in my lifetime.

I take it you are too young to have lived thru the Clinton years

 

it was like bodies hitting the floor in over drive

 

 

[JimandChristy 1,689]

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, JimandChristy said:

It's the beginning of the end, this is now officially worse than Watergate.

 

Mango Mussolini is on borrowed time. This is the most corrupt administration in my lifetime.

I figured this would bring the cheerleader squads out of the closet.  Thanks for not disappointing us!!  

 

(Not gonna hold my breath,  since your last 5 Trump predictions have all fallen flat)

[jb914 33]

9 hours ago, jg121783 said:

You do know that indictments aren't proof of anything right?

Convictions mean proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and guilty pleas mean the person is admitting guilt. There is no debate here.

 

We have seven guilty pleas and convictions now, and counting.

 

Who has been charged with crimes		Charges	Outcome
	Paul Manafort Former campaign chairman	Tax and bank fraud, false statements, being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, obstruction of justice	Convicted of financial fraud Aug. 21, 2018
	Michael D. Cohen Mr. Trump’s former lawyer	Tax evasion, bank fraud, campaign finance violations	Pleaded guilty Aug. 21, 2018
	Rick Gates Former campaign adviser	Financial fraud and lying to the F.B.I.	Pleaded guilty Feb. 23, 2018
	Alex van der Zwaan Lawyer who worked with Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates	Lying to investigators about conversations with Mr. Gates	Pleaded guilty Feb. 20, 2018
	Richard Pinedo California man who sold bank accounts online	Identity fraud	Pleaded guilty Feb. 12, 2018
	Michael T. Flynn Former national security adviser	Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Russian ambassador	Pleaded guilty Dec. 1, 2017
	George Papadopoulos Former campaign adviser	Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with people he believed were working on behalf of Russians	Pleaded guilty Oct. 5, 2017

Edited August 23, 2018 by jb914

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 minutes ago, jb914 said:

Convictions and guilty please mean proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

We have seven guilty pleas and convictions now, and counting.

 

Who has been charged with crimes		Charges	Outcome
	Paul Manafort Former campaign chairman	Tax and bank fraud, false statements, being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, obstruction of justice	Convicted of financial fraud Aug. 21, 2018
	Michael D. Cohen Mr. Trump’s former lawyer	Tax evasion, bank fraud, campaign finance violations	Pleaded guilty Aug. 21, 2018
	Rick Gates Former campaign adviser	Financial fraud and lying to the F.B.I.	Pleaded guilty Feb. 23, 2018
	Alex van der Zwaan Lawyer who worked with Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates	Lying to investigators about conversations with Mr. Gates	Pleaded guilty Feb. 20, 2018
	Richard Pinedo California man who sold bank accounts online	Identity fraud	Pleaded guilty Feb. 12, 2018
	Michael T. Flynn Former national security adviser	Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Russian ambassador	Pleaded guilty Dec. 1, 2017
	George Papadopoulos Former campaign adviser	Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with people he believed were working on behalf of Russians	Pleaded guilty Oct. 5, 2017

About 8 more and equal the number caught in the whitewater investigation 

[jb914 33]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

About 8 more and equal the number caught in the whitewater investigation 

I was not aware that Hillary won? I thought Trump was the president. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herring

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

1 minute ago, jb914 said:

Convictions and guilty please mean proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Generally the way a trial works you are correct.

 

Still nothing to stick on Trump, not that it matters but apparently it's the beginning of the end. 🤯

[jg121783 3,921]

11 minutes ago, jb914 said:

Convictions mean proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and guilty pleas mean the person is admitting guilt. There is no debate here.

 

We have seven guilty pleas and convictions now, and counting.

 

Who has been charged with crimes		Charges	Outcome
	Paul Manafort Former campaign chairman	Tax and bank fraud, false statements, being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, obstruction of justice	Convicted of financial fraud Aug. 21, 2018
	Michael D. Cohen Mr. Trump’s former lawyer	Tax evasion, bank fraud, campaign finance violations	Pleaded guilty Aug. 21, 2018
	Rick Gates Former campaign adviser	Financial fraud and lying to the F.B.I.	Pleaded guilty Feb. 23, 2018
	Alex van der Zwaan Lawyer who worked with Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates	Lying to investigators about conversations with Mr. Gates	Pleaded guilty Feb. 20, 2018
	Richard Pinedo California man who sold bank accounts online	Identity fraud	Pleaded guilty Feb. 12, 2018
	Michael T. Flynn Former national security adviser	Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Russian ambassador	Pleaded guilty Dec. 1, 2017
	George Papadopoulos Former campaign adviser	Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with people he believed were working on behalf of Russians	Pleaded guilty Oct. 5, 2017

100% agreed. I was talking about indictments though. Not convictions or guilty pleas (although people do plead guilty in rare cases when they are not guilty to avoid a lengthy and costly trial). A ham sandwich could be indited in a federal court. An indictment is by no means proof of guilt.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

14 minutes ago, jb914 said:

I was not aware that Hillary won? I thought Trump was the president. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herring

What is it with you MDL and Hillary ?