How to file divorce from outside America?

[Boiler 45,572]

32 minutes ago, Jojo92122 said:

Not telling mods what is and isn't allowed on VJ.

 

Forum shopping is a legal concept in litigation.  Suggest you look it up since you don't understand it.  

However the ToS is beyond the scope of litigation, it is beyond the understanding of mortal men. And women.

[raysn0w 20]

10 hours ago, NikLR said:

I enjoy when you tell mods what is and isn't allowed on VJ. 😅

Isn't Forum shopping a legal term lol?

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

Forum shopping or not. Let's be reasonable. Even if a marriage took place in the US, are we now claiming that the foreign spouse cannot go back to their country & obtain a local divorce??? I've always seen that as the advice if the immigrant decided to return to their country. I'm assuming that from her perspective what matters is that SHE will be divorced & free to eventually remarry if she so chooses. Whether to USC spouse holds themselves still married, I'm not sure it matters to her in that situation. (And I sure do not understand how he even could, provided he was properly served.)

The US acknowledges foreign divorce in the cases when an intending immigrant needs to prove that their previous marriage was legally terminated therefore their marriage to their USC spouse is lawful. Why not in this situation?

[Boiler 45,572]

The divorce would need to be concluded in accordance with in this case Indonesian law.

[Jojo92122 1,924]

7 minutes ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

Forum shopping or not. Let's be reasonable. Even if a marriage took place in the US, are we now claiming that the foreign spouse cannot go back to their country & obtain a local divorce??? I've always seen that as the advice if the immigrant decided to return to their country. I'm assuming that from her perspective what matters is that SHE will be divorced & free to eventually remarry if she so chooses. Whether to USC spouse holds themselves still married, I'm not sure it matters to her in that situation. (And I sure do not understand how he even could, provided he was properly served.)

The US acknowledges foreign divorce in the cases when an intending immigrant needs to prove that their previous marriage was legally terminated therefore their marriage to their USC spouse is lawful. Why not in this situation?

https://www.liveabout.com/foreign-divorce-how-do-you-know-if-it-is-valid-1102820

[Jojo92122 1,924]

From Onktarkie's link.

 

Generally doesn't mean always.

 

What does an opportunity to be heard mean in the legal world?  What happens if the husband refuses to submit himself to the jurisdiction of a foreign court when he lives in the US?  

 

Think a US bank would divide the assets of a Maryland man based on a court order from Indonesia?  

 

Will a foreign divorce be recognized in the United States?

• A foreign judgment of divorce generally is recognized in a state in the United States on the basis of legal reciprocity where both parties had notice of the divorce proceeding and an opportunity to be heard within these proceedings. Marriage and divorce generally are considered matters reserved to the states rather than to the federal government.
• Specific questions regarding the validity of foreign divorces in particular states in the United States should be referred to the office of the Attorney General of the state in question.  It may be necessary  to retain the services of a private attorney if the office of the state Attorney General does not provide such assistance to private citizens.

[Jojo92122 1,924]

11 hours ago, NikLR said:

I agree that it would require going to court and depends on the state laws.  

 

For instance in my state, the partner who earns more owes spousal support to the one who earns less unless the children are residing with the one earning more. 

Obligation for spousal and/or child support is obviously in the courts hands, I don't think anyone implied it wouldn't be.  If you made that assumption... that's not my issue. 

 

Since the OP has left the country I'm sure some child support would be required by a US court of law (and provided by a decent parent even without a court of law dictating it.)  

 

Since the rest of the world has to obide by the US laws regarding divorce, I'm unsure why the OP cant file where they currently live I'd they qualify.  Not to would be a rather large double standard.  (But honestly wouldn't surprise me...)

 

Really?  The rest of the world has to kow-tow to US laws regarding divorce?  You think too highly of America and its power to dictate things to the rest of the world.

 

Google US divorce, parental kidnapping, Japan, Brazil and see how those countries have handled US court orders for child custody during divorces.  How come they didn't OBIDE (abide) by US laws regarding divorce?

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Jojo92122

[Jojo92122 1,924]

VJ is a great resource on US immigration laws.  You guys have spent a great deal of time researching it.

 

However, most people here have no clue about other areas of the law.  Jurisdiction, venue, forum shopping, enforcement of a foreign judgment, international law, comity, etc.  

It's one thing to file immigration forms in a nonjudicial setting.  International litigation involving foreign and domestic courts is a completely different monster.  

Edited August 19, 2018 by Jojo92122

[Diane and Chris 651]

2 hours ago, Jojo92122 said:

Not telling mods what is and isn't allowed on VJ.

 

Forum shopping is a legal concept in litigation.  Suggest you look it up since you don't understand it.  

As my mama used to say, “Looks like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed!”  Best wishes to OP.

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

16 minutes ago, Jojo92122 said:

VJ is a great resource on US immigration laws.  You guys have spent a great deal of time researching it.

 

However, most people here have no clue about other areas of the law.  Jurisdiction, venue, forum shopping, enforcement of a foreign judgment, international law, comity, etc.  

It's one thing to file immigration forms in a nonjudicial setting.  International litigation involving foreign and domestic courts is a completely different monster.  

Enforcing a child support order or a child custody order is one thing. What you still have not explained is how OP's husband could claim they're still married if OP went through to proper channels in Indonesia & obtained a divorce. He couldn't, plain & simple.

[Jojo92122 1,924]

5 minutes ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

Enforcing a child support order or a child custody order is one thing. What you still have not explained is how OP's husband could claim they're still married if OP went through to proper channels in Indonesia & obtained a divorce. He couldn't, plain & simple.

Never said that OP could claim they are still marry.

 

If the husband refuses to submit himself to the jurisdiction of the Indonesian court, then any judgment against him will not be enforceable in the US.  Child custody.  Child support.  Spousal support.  Division of assets.  

 

They may be divorced, but that's it.  None of the other issues can be settled on in Indonesia without his consent to participate.  No US bank, no US entity would enforce a foreign court order.  The US entity would want a local court order to enforce the foreign judgement.  Good luck getting that foreign judgment enforced by a US court when the US citizen who lives in the US with US assets and rights refuses to submit himself to the jurisdiction of a foreign court.  

Edited August 19, 2018 by Jojo92122

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

1 minute ago, Jojo92122 said:

Never said that OP could claim they are still marry.

 

If the husband refuses to submit himself to the jurisdiction of the Indonesian court, then any judgment against him will not be enforceable in the US.  Child custody.  Child support.  Spousal support.  Division of assets.  

 

They may be divorced, but that's it.  None of the other issues can be settled on in Indonesia without his consent to participate.  

Well, I don't disagree with any of that. I got the impression from your earlier posts that you were claiming that the divorce wouldn't "count" in the US unless he submitted himself to the jurisdiction of the Indonesian court. I was arguing with this perceived claim. I may have misunderstood & you may never have made that claim.

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

21 hours ago, Jojo92122 said:

Under US laws, you will need to file in Maryland where your husband lives for a divorce.  You can try to file by yourself or hire a lawyer to help you.  Indonesia has nothing to do with him.  

 

The rules may be different in Indonesia.  Since he is a US citizen and lives in the US, an Indonesian court has little or no power over him.  You may be able to divorce in Indonesia but the US does not have to honor any of it.  

The US have to honor the divorce itself (as long as he was properly served).

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

9 hours ago, WandY said:

Absolutely wrong. Filing in Indonesia will not work. Under the doctrine of forum non conveniens, the defendant/respondent (U.S. husband in this case) will seek to have the case dismissed and/or removed to the appropriate county/state in which he resides. This doctrine is applicable in federal law and every state. It is commonly used in these types of cases because the defendant/respondent and children involved are U.S. citizens and must avail themselves of U.S. law. The rule is used because of the massive inconvenience of submitting evidence, interrogatories, etc. and making court appearances. Filing from Indonesia will be a waste of time and money. No U.S. court will entertain it, even if the U.S. husband is OK with it. She can file by hiring a lawyer in the state where her husband lives. That's the only way.

She literally cannot file in Maryland. "Under Maryland law, you only have to demonstrate that you and your spouse have been separated for involuntarily for two years or voluntarily for 12 months. Maryland law also provides alternatives to the standard divorce known as an annulment and legal separation, which have separate requirements and only apply to certain circumstances."

 

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/maryland-law/maryland-legal-requirements-for-divorce.html

 

Unless, of course, she moved to Indonesia a year or more ago.

[Jojo92122 1,924]

2 minutes ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

The US have to honor the divorce itself (as long as he was properly served).

No one is forced to be marry.  

 

All other aspects of a divorce is another matter.  Child custody.  Child support.  Spousal support.  Division of assets.  None of these are about being married.  All of this would require a US court order to enforce the foreign judgment before any US entity would act on it.   The US court would then look to see if the foreign judgment should be enforced in the US on US individuals and US entities.