America might be ready for democratic socialism. It’s not ready for the bill.

[Dashinka 25,023]

Democratic socialism is having a moment. Sen. Bernie Sanders mobilized millions of voters during the 2016 campaign, nominally as a Democrat but with many self-professed socialists in his bandwagon. And Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will likely bring her own brand of socialism to Congress next year, having knocked off New York Rep. Joe Crowley in a primary.

However, the democratic socialist agenda will face resistance not only from other lawmakers but from basic math. Their promises, which include free college, a single-payer health care system, guaranteed jobs, and more, would require astonishingly high expenditures that would cause the federal deficit to skyrocket. Once the costs become clear, most mainstream politicians and voters will surely balk. Making big promises is one thing; paying for them is another.

 

Let’s add up the cost of the popular far-left proposals, something very few breathless discussions of the democratic-socialism trend do.

Last week, the Mercatus Center, a libertarian-leaning center at George Mason University, estimated that Sanders’s Medicare-for-all plan would cost the government $32 trillion over the next decade, setting off an intense debate. But we can do this budget exercise using only figures from nonpartisan and even left-leaning groups.

To begin with the necessary context: The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) assumes a baseline budget deficit of $12.4 trillion over the next decade (assuming current laws continue). And even these projections assume that last year’s tax cuts expire on schedule, though they may well be renewed, and that the recent two-year discretionary spending hike is not renewed in 2020. Most of this deficit is driven by the escalating Social Security and Medicare system deficits.

From that baseline, Sanders has proposed a Social Security expansion, including higher cost-of-living adjustments and higher minimum benefit levels, that the liberal Tax Policy Center estimates will cost $188 billion over the next decade. 

The Tax Policy Center also scores the Sanders “free college” proposal at $807 billion over the next decade. (Note that free college benefits students from wealthy families and those whose tuition is currently affordable.) 

Next, the center estimates that Sanders’s proposal of up to 12 weeks of paid family leave for new parents and for people with serious health conditions would cost another $270 billion.

Those costs, however, pale beside the cost of replacing private insurance, including copayments, with a Medicare-for-all plan. The liberal Urban Institute estimates that Sanders’s single-payer health plan would add $32 trillion in federal costs over the decade. Note that that’s the exact same figure produced by those George Mason libertarians. (Yes, there are important caveats to that number; I discuss them below.)

 

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/8/7/17658574/democratic-socialism-cost-medicare-college-sanders-deficits-taxes

 

.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

If we wish to triple or quadruple the number of people living. Inpoverty, this seems like a quick way to get there.

[Dashinka 25,023]

34 minutes ago, Satisfied said:

If we wish to triple or quadruple the number of people living. Inpoverty, this seems like a quick way to get there.

No doubt.  It is interesting how many people want free stuff that someone else will supposedly pay for.  As the great Margaret Thatcher said “The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I love that (oh-so-accurate) quote!

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Seriously the ONLY reason the Nordic countries have Democratic Socialism is because they spend next to nothing on their Defense budgets. This is true for a majority of Western Europe which still looks to the good Ol' USA to bail them out defensively. 

 

So if we get rid of our defense budget and just spend it all on healthcare then we can all lead from behind and hope/pray that China/Russia doesn't invade.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 hours ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Seriously the ONLY reason the Nordic countries have Democratic Socialism is because they spend next to nothing on their Defense budgets. This is true for a majority of Western Europe which still looks to the good Ol' USA to bail them out defensively. 

 

So if we get rid of our defense budget and just spend it all on healthcare then we can all lead from behind and hope/pray that China/Russia doesn't invade.

This is true.  Without the military support of NATO, their countries would have a hard time existing peacefully, and would not have the money to spend on “free” health care and “free” college.

Another thing to ask is, why is their unemployment rates historically higher?  Less economic growth due to heavy taxation?  Or do some people just not want to work to benefit their neighbors?  All things that should be considered going forward.

[TBoneTX 46,463]

Welfare systems are too generous?

[Dashinka 25,023]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:04 PM, Cyberfx1024 said:

Seriously the ONLY reason the Nordic countries have Democratic Socialism is because they spend next to nothing on their Defense budgets. This is true for a majority of Western Europe which still looks to the good Ol' USA to bail them out defensively. 

 

So if we get rid of our defense budget and just spend it all on healthcare then we can all lead from behind and hope/pray that China/Russia doesn't invade.

The Nordic countries are not Democratic Socialists, but rather social safety netters.  Sure they created a bunch of social programs that most likely will not be sustainable, but they have not (so far) talked about taking over the capitalist economy.  The DSA spokespeople here are more open about wanting to take over the US economy and control the capital which in my opinion is just repackaged Communism. 

[Keith & Arileidi 437]

On 8/10/2018 at 9:04 PM, Cyberfx1024 said:

Seriously the ONLY reason the Nordic countries have Democratic Socialism is because they spend next to nothing on their Defense budgets. This is true for a majority of Western Europe which still looks to the good Ol' USA to bail them out defensively. 

 

So if we get rid of our defense budget and just spend it all on healthcare then we can all lead from behind and hope/pray that China/Russia doesn't invade.

I'm cool with this. 

I'm tired of policing the world. 

[jg121783 3,921]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:04 PM, Cyberfx1024 said:

Seriously the ONLY reason the Nordic countries have Democratic Socialism is because they spend next to nothing on their Defense budgets. This is true for a majority of Western Europe which still looks to the good Ol' USA to bail them out defensively. 

 

So if we get rid of our defense budget and just spend it all on healthcare then we can all lead from behind and hope/pray that China/Russia doesn't invade.

 

1 hour ago, Keith & Arileidi said:

I'm cool with this. 

I'm tired of policing the world. 

I don't think we should get rid of our defense budget. However there are some major cuts we could make that wouldn't really affect our national security all that much. Like Keith said we could stop policing the world and shut down many of our bases around the world. Along with that we could stop subsidizing military budgets of other countries (which Trump is trying to do with NATO). I have always been for bringing our troops home from places they don't need to be (guarding the borders of other nations) for our national security and put them on our border. We could reform the corrupt no bid defense contract process and save tons of money in that area. Instead of giving the contract to the company with the most political connections and the most lobbying money give it to the company that can produce the highest quality product for the best price (simple concept I know). I oppose socialist policies so I say we take the money we save from doing what I suggested and use it to pay down the deficit.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I can't understand why anyone can't see which one works better...

 

[Unidentified 2,930]

On 8/10/2018 at 9:04 PM, Cyberfx1024 said:

Seriously the ONLY reason the Nordic countries have Democratic Socialism is because they spend next to nothing on their Defense budgets. This is true for a majority of Western Europe which still looks to the good Ol' USA to bail them out defensively. 

 

So if we get rid of our defense budget and just spend it all on healthcare then we can all lead from behind and hope/pray that China/Russia doesn't invade.

The Nordic countries doesn't have democratic socialism.... 

[Unidentified 2,930]

On 8/11/2018 at 7:45 AM, Satisfied said:

This is true.  Without the military support of NATO, their countries would have a hard time existing peacefully, and would not have the money to spend on “free” health care and “free” college.

Another thing to ask is, why is their unemployment rates historically higher?  Less economic growth due to heavy taxation?  Or do some people just not want to work to benefit their neighbors?  All things that should be considered going forward.

Are those numbers taking in the consideration that we have a ton of immigrants who have yet to get a work permit or yet to get into the workforce?

 

Without showing an effort that you're actually applying for jobs you won't be getting any unemployment benefits (plus you must have had a job for a certain time). If you decline a job while unemployed you won't be getting any unemployment benefits either. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Unidentified said:

Are those numbers taking in the consideration that we have a ton of immigrants who have yet to get a work permit or yet to get into the workforce?

 

Without showing an effort that you're actually applying for jobs you won't be getting any unemployment benefits (plus you must have had a job for a certain time). If you decline a job while unemployed you won't be getting any unemployment benefits either. 

Not sure how those countries report their figures, I simply googled some.  Doesn’t make sense to me that they would count immigrants who are not eligible to work though.

[Dashinka 25,023]

How Much Does Socialism Cost?

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/08/how_much_does_socialism_cost.html

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bill & Katya