Ontario's new Conservative government to end basic income experiment

[Umka36 781]

This actually surprised me for our neighbors up north.

 

"In Canada, where nearly one in five children live in poverty – a rate that is among the highest in the OECD and more than three times that of Nordic countries – leaders from across the political spectrum have championed the idea of basic income. "

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/ontarios-new-conservative-government-to-end-basic-income-experiment

[Dashinka 24,758]

Leaders from across the political spectrum have been championing UBI?

[Ironclad43 131]

Forced wealth redistribution by any means is deeply immoral and ultimately leads to more poverty as the productive classes are disincentivized from actually producing the wealth to be distributed to those who don't.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

22 hours ago, Ironclad43 said:

Forced wealth redistribution by any means is deeply immoral and ultimately leads to more poverty as the productive classes are disincentivized from actually producing the wealth to be distributed to those who don't.

I know if I was subjected to production of income for people who were not willing to work for it, that would be my last day on the job.  No two week notice for this guy.

[Ironclad43 131]

I'd be leaving the country without 2 weeks notice, let alone my job.

[Póg mo 1,749]

On 8/2/2018 at 8:53 AM, Ironclad43 said:

Forced wealth redistribution by any means is deeply immoral and ultimately leads to more poverty as the productive classes are disincentivized from actually producing the wealth to be distributed to those who don't.

That doesn't make sense. The US has a greater poverty rate than Canada, but aren't taxes are lower in the US! Strange  that, isn't it? Maybe enforced taxation doesn't in fact lead to increased poverty?  

[Ironclad43 131]

19 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

That doesn't make sense. The US has a greater poverty rate than Canada, but aren't taxes are lower in the US! Strange  that, isn't it? Maybe enforced taxation doesn't in fact lead to increased poverty?  

It's also a different country where things other than taxation are different. Also the poverty metric in the West is ridiculous when compared to the rest of the world.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

On 8/1/2018 at 4:34 PM, Umka36 said:

This actually surprised me for our neighbors up north.

 

"In Canada, where nearly one in five children live in poverty – a rate that is among the highest in the OECD and more than three times that of Nordic countries – leaders from across the political spectrum have championed the idea of basic income. "

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/ontarios-new-conservative-government-to-end-basic-income-experiment

I thought Canada was Utopia . How could 1/5th of kids live in Poverty ?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 hours ago, Póg mo said:

That doesn't make sense. The US has a greater poverty rate than Canada, but aren't taxes are lower in the US! Strange  that, isn't it? Maybe enforced taxation doesn't in fact lead to increased poverty?  

https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-united-states

 

The official poverty rate is 12.7 percent, based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2016 estimates. That year, an estimated 43.1 million Americans lived in poverty according to the official measure. According to supplemental poverty measure, the poverty rate was 14.0 percent.  

 

1 in 5 is 20%

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-united-states

 

The official poverty rate is 12.7 percent, based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2016 estimates. That year, an estimated 43.1 million Americans lived in poverty according to the official measure. According to supplemental poverty measure, the poverty rate was 14.0 percent.  

 

1 in 5 is 20%

 

   1 in 5 is a reference to child poverty in Canada. It actually said less than 1 in 5. I believe it said 18%. The child poverty rate in the USA is estimated at 21%.

 

  The overall poverty rate given for Canada is around 14%.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 hours ago, Póg mo said:

That doesn't make sense. The US has a greater poverty rate than Canada, but aren't taxes are lower in the US! Strange  that, isn't it? Maybe enforced taxation doesn't in fact lead to increased poverty?  

 

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   1 in 5 is a reference to child poverty in Canada. It actually said less than 1 in 5. I believe it said 18%. The child poverty rate in the USA is estimated at 21%.

 

  The overall poverty rate given for Canada is around 14%.

So Poq mo is wrong,  the poverty rates are quite similar? Interesting.

 

But Canada's taxes are higher.  And their currency weaker against the USD.

[Póg mo 1,749]

14 minutes ago, Satisfied said:

 

So Poq mo is wrong,  the poverty rates are quite similar? Interesting.

 

But Canada's taxes are higher.  And their currency weaker against the USD.

Well the argument was:

 

9 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Forced wealth redistribution by any means is deeply immoral and ultimately leads to more poverty as the productive classes are disincentivized from actually producing the wealth to be distributed to those who don't

Canada has higher levels of taxation, yet their relative poverty rate is still lower than in the United States, so the above argument doesn't exactly hold up. I wager that the poor in Canada have it better than the poor in the United States, especially considering affordable health care is more readily available in Canada. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 hours ago, Póg mo said:

That doesn't make sense. The US has a greater poverty rate than Canada, but aren't taxes are lower in the US! Strange  that, isn't it? Maybe enforced taxation doesn't in fact lead to increased poverty?  

No, the argument YOU made was that the US has a greater rate of poverty than CA. But based on what NB and Steel said, the rates are both about 14%.

 

The part below, that you are quoting as your own, was actually said by another member.  It's against the TOS to modify quotes like that, or try to pass off another member's words as one's own, FWIW

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

Well the argument was:

 

Canada has higher levels of taxation, yet their relative poverty rate is still lower than in the United States, so the above argument doesn't exactly hold up. I wager that the poor in Canada have it better than the poor in the United States, especially considering affordable health care is more readily available in Canada. 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Satisfied