Income from outside US without work permit

[cedrichadjian 7]

Hi all!

I'm a web developer and data entry and validation expert, I work from home here in Lebanon. Will it be ok to have an income from Lebanon while we're waiting for AoS when I'm in the US?

I read somewhere that as long as the income is not from a US company, they don't mind. Is this true?

[Roel 7,193]

It's somewhat a gray area.

I'd say it's usually not recommended.

[shumway1756 304]

Very grey area. Laws haven’t really adapted to the whole idea or working remotely, leaving lots of room for debate and confusion.

 

I work remotely for an American company (with USD income) from another country. Thankfully when I asked immigration here they told me they didn’t care at all, the job had nothing to do with this country and as far as they’re concerned I’m unemployed here. But not every country will see it that way.

 

So while nobody can really tell you either way, my personal inclination would be to play it safe and not do it while in the US if it were me.

[cedrichadjian 7]

1 minute ago, shumway1756 said:

Very grey area. Laws haven’t really adapted to the whole idea or working remotely, leaving lots of room for debate and confusion.

 

I work remotely for an American company (with USD income) from another country. Thankfully when I asked immigration here they told me they didn’t care at all, the job had nothing to do with this country and as far as they’re concerned I’m unemployed here. But not every country will see it that way.

 

So while nobody can really tell you either way, my personal inclination would be to play it safe and not do it while in the US if it were me.

I see. But why would they be against it? I would be helping my husband-to-be with expenses AND the income wouldn't be from the US. It's sorta a good thing for the US too, foreign money entering the US would help its economy.

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

5 minutes ago, cedrichadjian said:

I see. But why would they be against it? I would be helping my husband-to-be with expenses AND the income wouldn't be from the US. It's sorta a good thing for the US too, foreign money entering the US would help its economy.

I wouldn't have any issue doing it if I was in your shoes.

 

There isn't a yes or no answer here, because it falls in the loophole of not working vs working in the USA.

[cedrichadjian 7]

Just now, Chris Duffy said:

I wouldn't have any issue doing it if I was in your shoes.

 

There isn't a yes or no answer here, because it falls in the loophole of not working vs working in the USA.

There should be some sort of permit or something.

[Ironclad43 131]

Yeah I would also like to know about that. If I can keep working remotely while waiting for AoS, it would help out tremendously.

[shumway1756 304]

32 minutes ago, cedrichadjian said:

I see. But why would they be against it? I would be helping my husband-to-be with expenses AND the income wouldn't be from the US. It's sorta a good thing for the US too, foreign money entering the US would help its economy.

I'm totally with you, seems to me like the location of the employer and payroll (where the money transits), and the fact that you're not taking an American job in this situation (their chief concern supposedly) should be more important than the location of your butt. But there have been instances where governments have taken issue with remote workers (either by requiring work permits, additional taxes, etc.).

 

Again, I can't really tell you if you can or can't (nobody really can), just pointing out that it's a grey area with lots of opinions, and whether it's ok or not really depends on the official you speak to and how they're feeling on that particular day. There's nothing solid in the books.

Edited July 10, 2018 by shumway1756

[cedrichadjian 7]

2 minutes ago, shumway1756 said:

I'm totally with you, seems to me like the location of the employer and payroll (where the money transits) should be more important than the location of your butt. But there have been instances where governments have taken issue with remote workers (either by requiring work permits, additional taxes, etc.).

 

Again, I can't really tell you if you can or can't (nobody really can), just pointing out that it's a grey area with lots of opinions, and whether it's ok or not really depends on the official you speak to and how they're feeling on that particular day. There's nothing solid in the books.

You're right, I should also pay taxes when working remotely, which I have no problem with paying taxes. 

The whole thing is complicated. I also have a plan of making a chat website and earning money from the ads, but I guess this won't work either. 

[geowrian 22,338]

5 hours ago, cedrichadjian said:

I see. But why would they be against it? I would be helping my husband-to-be with expenses AND the income wouldn't be from the US. It's sorta a good thing for the US too, foreign money entering the US would help its economy.

Why they would be against it or not is not really the issue. Laws, especially labor laws written decades ago, don't always make sense in the modern world.

That said, the specifics may matter. For instance, if there were a US-based sister company, said company could hire workers to avoid US labor laws while also taking away jobs that would normally be available to Americans. It's debatable how much of an impact this would have for fully remote work, but is a valid argument.

Anyway, the arguments don't matter. This is a gray area where there is no solid answer backed by precedent as DHS has not chosen to pursue the issue.

5 hours ago, cedrichadjian said:

There should be some sort of permit or something.

There is. It's an EAD. Unfortunately, it takes 3-6 months to obtain nowadays. Back when it took ~30-45 days, you could even apply for one before filing for AOS (with having it be somewhat practical).

4 hours ago, cedrichadjian said:

The whole thing is complicated. I also have a plan of making a chat website and earning money from the ads, but I guess this won't work either. 

Yes it is.

Self-employment is a no-no...you would then be working for a US-based employer (yourself).

[Jorge V 195]

6 hours ago, cedrichadjian said:

I see. But why would they be against it? I would be helping my husband-to-be with expenses AND the income wouldn't be from the US. It's sorta a good thing for the US too, foreign money entering the US would help its economy.

 

5 hours ago, shumway1756 said:

I'm totally with you, seems to me like the location of the employer and payroll (where the money transits), and the fact that you're not taking an American job in this situation (their chief concern supposedly) should be more important than the location of your butt.

 

A reason they might be against it is that the IRS considers income to be earned based on the location where the work is performed. If you perform the work in the US while working for a foreign company, the IRS still considers that income to be earned in the US.

 

This can be seen in the opposite situation as well: if you live abroad but work remotely for a US company that pays you in USD into a US bank account, the IRS considers that income to be foreign earned, and can be excluded (up to $100k) from your income for tax purposes.

 

I used to be in this exact situation for several years. I work remotely for a US based company but was living as an expat in Mexico. The IRS considered my income to be foreign earned and the first $100k went untaxed. I was also required to list my visits to the US and the income earned during my visit. Each time I visited my parents in the US I would continue to work remotely, so I had to report that income as US earned and pay taxes on it. So in my situation, if I spent 50 weeks in Mexico and 2 weeks in the US the income earned during the 50 weeks was untaxed, while the income earned during the two weeks in the US was taxed.

[shumway1756 304]

Thanks @Jorge V! Do you per chance know where the IRS says that? I would love to be able to look at that in more detail.

[Jorge V 195]

55 minutes ago, shumway1756 said:

Thanks @Jorge V! Do you per chance know where the IRS says that? I would love to be able to look at that in more detail.

Unfortunately, I don't know where in the IRS handbook that is, my information comes from accountants, doing research, and even asking the IRS directly several years ago.

 

I do have a few examples though that might help. Working remotely for a company in one state while living in another means that you only have to report your income to the state where you live. I'm in this situation currently as my company is headquartered in Alabama but I live and work remotely in Texas. I don't have to report my income to Alabama even though they have a state income tax.

 

Another example is the "jock tax" where professional athletes have to pay taxes to the various cities/states where they play. Tom Brady and the Patriots may be based in Massachusetts, but he has to pay taxes to each of the states where he plays away games. If he plays a game in Buffalo, he has to pay taxes to the state of New York for the income he earned during that one game, as the work was performed in NY state.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Jorge V

[JFH 12,191]

*~*~*moved to “working and travelling” where similar questions are discussed*~*~*

[A&H2018 148]

Well stated, unfortunately IRS and USA global taxation rules have many tiers. One of the most important is how many days you are physically in the usa. Seeing as AOS takes a while you will be paying higher of taxes in usa and home country. Also you should try to push to expedite your EAD etc as soon as you get to the USA since its a gray area. Also your spouse’s taxes become more complicated. But proper use of getting an ssn and doing taxes correct easily open the door for any officer to ask was this legal work?

 

here is the IRS foreign income rules. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion . But again before all that you have the IRS calendar rules.

Edited July 15, 2018 by A&H2018