Tony Blair stepping down.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

He also did about as much to damage Britain's democratic ideals as Bush has done to the US. Nowhere near as bad as Thatcher, at least he's got that going for him...

I agree. He has really tightened the state's grip on personal privacy. It's scary. I didn't live here under Thatcher so I have no basis for comparison, but if she was worse I'm glad I wasn't here.

I grew up in the Thatcher years. For one thing she took away the free milk for kids, which gave her "troll under the bridge status" from a rugrats perspective.

But seriously - her government destroyed the UK's manufacturing industry, which has never recovered from her economic "reforms".

Then there was all that stuff with the Poll Tax... which she tried to force through on her own dime (in much the same way that Blair forced through legislation against huge opposition. Caused huge riots.

Edited May 11, 2007 by erekose

[homesick_american 1]

But seriously - her government destroyed the UK's manufacturing industry, which has never recovered from her economic "reforms".

Yeah, but wouldn't that have happened anyway?

Then there was all that stuff with the Poll Tax... which she tried to force through on her own dime (in much the same way that Blair forced through legislation against huge opposition. Caused huge riots.

Yeah, we heard about those...but I've read that the present council tax regime is less fair than the poll tax would have been...? Not trying to argue, just curious.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah, we heard about those...but I've read that the present council tax regime is less fair than the poll tax would have been...? Not trying to argue, just curious.

I've heard that too - not really surprising given Blair/Brown's record for stealth taxation. Under the Poll tax I understand that the fee would have been pro-rated based on the number of people living in the house rather than being strictly based on the amount of money you earned or the value of your house.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

But seriously - her government destroyed the UK's manufacturing industry, which has never recovered from her economic "reforms".

Yeah, but wouldn't that have happened anyway?

Perhaps, considering that one of the WORSE examples was her propping up of DeLorean's Northern Ireland factory with taxpayers' money.

Then there was all that stuff with the Poll Tax... which she tried to force through on her own dime (in much the same way that Blair forced through legislation against huge opposition. Caused huge riots.

Yeah, we heard about those...but I've read that the present council tax regime is less fair than the poll tax would have been...? Not trying to argue, just curious.

That's like arguing that the old (in Canada) "hidden" (inside the price) tax was higher than the GST--when base-prices got no lower post-1990.

IMO, her poll-tax idea germinated off Myron Baloney's GST idea, though she hadn't completely gutted her party (Kim Campbell was chosen the same way that John Turner had been chosen by Pierre-eh--DUE TO her uselessness) unlike her Canuck counterpart.

[homesick_american 1]

But seriously - her government destroyed the UK's manufacturing industry, which has never recovered from her economic "reforms".

Yeah, but wouldn't that have happened anyway?

Perhaps, considering that one of the WORSE examples was her propping up of DeLorean's Northern Ireland factory with taxpayers' money.

Then there was all that stuff with the Poll Tax... which she tried to force through on her own dime (in much the same way that Blair forced through legislation against huge opposition. Caused huge riots.

Yeah, we heard about those...but I've read that the present council tax regime is less fair than the poll tax would have been...? Not trying to argue, just curious.

That's like arguing that the old (in Canada) "hidden" (inside the price) tax was higher than the GST--when base-prices got no lower post-1990.

IMO, her poll-tax idea germinated off Myron Baloney's GST idea, though she hadn't completely gutted her party (Kim Campbell was chosen the same way that John Turner had been chosen by Pierre-eh--DUE TO her uselessness) unlike her Canuck counterpart.

Not Canadian, no idea what you're talking about.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Lets not also forget the whole "Arms to Iraq" thing...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But seriously - her government destroyed the UK's manufacturing industry, which has never recovered from her economic "reforms".

Yeah, but wouldn't that have happened anyway?

Perhaps, considering that one of the WORSE examples was her propping up of DeLorean's Northern Ireland factory with taxpayers' money.

Then there was all that stuff with the Poll Tax... which she tried to force through on her own dime (in much the same way that Blair forced through legislation against huge opposition. Caused huge riots.

Yeah, we heard about those...but I've read that the present council tax regime is less fair than the poll tax would have been...? Not trying to argue, just curious.

That's like arguing that the old (in Canada) "hidden" (inside the price) tax was higher than the GST--when base-prices got no lower post-1990.

IMO, her poll-tax idea germinated off Myron Baloney's GST idea, though she hadn't completely gutted her party (Kim Campbell was chosen the same way that John Turner had been chosen by Pierre-eh--DUE TO her uselessness) unlike her Canuck counterpart.

I think you have to consider the time the poll tax was introduced - around the time when we had massive unemployment (up to 4 million people) - due to the aforementioned destruction of the country’s manufacturing base. The latter might have been inevitable but there’s little doubt that she accelerated the process.

Stealth taxation is a huge problem in Britain – the council tax is a good example of that. The rates increased year on year, but there are a couple of important differences in the way it is applied Vs. the old Poll Tax idea. Also we don’t have that huge unemployment rate anymore…

I laughed a couple of years ago when there was talk of a dedicated “NHS Tax” to help reform the health service. People had apparently forgotten that this is what National Insurance was supposed to provide for…

[Oath 0]

But seriously - her government destroyed the UK's manufacturing industry, which has never recovered from her economic "reforms".

Yeah, but wouldn't that have happened anyway?

Perhaps, considering that one of the WORSE examples was her propping up of DeLorean's Northern Ireland factory with taxpayers' money.

Then there was all that stuff with the Poll Tax... which she tried to force through on her own dime (in much the same way that Blair forced through legislation against huge opposition. Caused huge riots.

Yeah, we heard about those...but I've read that the present council tax regime is less fair than the poll tax would have been...? Not trying to argue, just curious.

That's like arguing that the old (in Canada) "hidden" (inside the price) tax was higher than the GST--when base-prices got no lower post-1990.

IMO, her poll-tax idea germinated off Myron Baloney's GST idea, though she hadn't completely gutted her party (Kim Campbell was chosen the same way that John Turner had been chosen by Pierre-eh--DUE TO her uselessness) unlike her Canuck counterpart.

I think you have to consider the time the poll tax was introduced - around the time when we had massive unemployment (up to 4 million people) - due to the aforementioned destruction of the country’s manufacturing base. The latter might have been inevitable but there’s little doubt that she accelerated the process.

Stealth taxation is a huge problem in Britain – the council tax is a good example of that. The rates increased year on year, but there are a couple of important differences in the way it is applied Vs. the old Poll Tax idea. Also we don’t have that huge unemployment rate anymore…

I laughed a couple of years ago when there was talk of a dedicated “NHS Tax” to help reform the health service. People had apparently forgotten that this is what National Insurance was supposed to provide for…

There really are so many taxes in Britain that I'm not sure even the government knows what they're all for

[homesick_american 1]

I think you have to consider the time the poll tax was introduced - around the time when we had massive unemployment (up to 4 million people) - due to the aforementioned destruction of the country’s manufacturing base. The latter might have been inevitable but there’s little doubt that she accelerated the process.

Stealth taxation is a huge problem in Britain – the council tax is a good example of that. The rates increased year on year, but there are a couple of important differences in the way it is applied Vs. the old Poll Tax idea. Also we don’t have that huge unemployment rate anymore…

I've been a council tax payer since 2001...I know what you mean. Our council tax is £120 a month now. It's lower than some councils, but it has shot up in recent years. They've cut us back to garbage collection every other week, we have the most useless recycling scheme I've ever seen, the city is filthier than ever, crime is higher, and traffic is much worse. I do wonder what we're paying for.

I laughed a couple of years ago when there was talk of a dedicated “NHS Tax” to help reform the health service. People had apparently forgotten that this is what National Insurance was supposed to provide for…

LOL...was it the Lib Dems who suggested that? Sounds like one of their barmy ideas.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think you have to consider the time the poll tax was introduced - around the time when we had massive unemployment (up to 4 million people) - due to the aforementioned destruction of the country’s manufacturing base. The latter might have been inevitable but there’s little doubt that she accelerated the process.

Stealth taxation is a huge problem in Britain – the council tax is a good example of that. The rates increased year on year, but there are a couple of important differences in the way it is applied Vs. the old Poll Tax idea. Also we don’t have that huge unemployment rate anymore…

I've been a council tax payer since 2001...I know what you mean. Our council tax is £120 a month now. It's lower than some councils, but it has shot up in recent years. They've cut us back to garbage collection every other week, we have the most useless recycling scheme I've ever seen, the city is filthier than ever, crime is higher, and traffic is much worse. I do wonder what we're paying for.

I laughed a couple of years ago when there was talk of a dedicated “NHS Tax†to help reform the health service. People had apparently forgotten that this is what National Insurance was supposed to provide for…

LOL...was it the Lib Dems who suggested that? Sounds like one of their barmy ideas.

Probably. Just crazy that noone questions these things - 99% of the time the solution is not "more money" than it is about finding out how better to use what you're already getting. There's also experiments going around the country on with road taxation and congestion charging - which is also ridiculous as you're already paying road taxes in various forms.

British taxpayers get a pretty rough deal - though its worse here in NJ. I pay more taxes here than I did in Southern California, and get far less for the money too. NJ also has exorbitantly expensive toll roads - but for all that they're still riddled with pot-holes. Paying for the "privilege" of using the New Jersey turnpike and having to swerve around a huge hole in the road straight out of the tollbooth is just offensive.

Edited May 11, 2007 by erekose

[homesick_american 1]

Probably. Just crazy that noone questions these things - 99% of the time the solution is not "more money" than it is about finding out how better to use what you're already getting. There's also experiments going around the country on with road taxation and congestion charging - which is also ridiculous as you're already paying road taxes in various forms.

Yep, seen those too. (I still live in the UK!)

British taxpayers get a pretty rough deal - though its worse here in NJ. I pay more taxes here than I did in Southern California, and get far less for the money too. NJ also has exorbitantly expensive toll roads - but for all that they're still riddled with pot-holes. Paying for the "privilege" of using the New Jersey turnpike and having to swerve around a huge hole in the road straight out of the tollbooth is just offensive.

I've never really been to NJ so I'll have to take your word for it. My native state (Texas) has a very low tax burden and highways in excellent condition. People criticize the lack of availability of some social services in Texas and they have a point on some things, but most of us get along fine without any help from the government and I don't want them snatching so much of my money to pay to someone else in kickbacks. That's just B.S.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

British taxpayers get a pretty rough deal - though its worse here in NJ. I pay more taxes here than I did in Southern California, and get far less for the money too. NJ also has exorbitantly expensive toll roads - but for all that they're still riddled with pot-holes. Paying for the "privilege" of using the New Jersey turnpike and having to swerve around a huge hole in the road straight out of the tollbooth is just offensive.

I've never really been to NJ so I'll have to take your word for it. My native state (Texas) has a very low tax burden and highways in excellent condition. People criticize the lack of availability of some social services in Texas and they have a point on some things, but most of us get along fine without any help from the government and I don't want them snatching so much of my money to pay to someone else in kickbacks. That's just B.S.

Good point. Kickbacks and wastage are exactly where any newly imposed taxes (in Canada and UK) have wound up.