Why the unions are going downhill

[GaryC 7]

First let me say I have belonged to 3 different unions over the years and my father was a union carpenter for over 20 years so I don't have anything in particular against unions, but I have an observation that is rooted in a unique perspective.

I now work for a company that does contract factory maintenance. Right now I am assigned to a Caterpillar plant in E. Peoria. We have been taking over the maintenance duties for the machines in the plant in phases as the UAW maintenance people retire or are moved to different plants. There are over 500 CNC (computer numerical controlled) machines in this plant. As I look at the quality of the work from the UAW guys I am dismayed and disgusted. These guys have been putting band-aids over bullet holes! I realize that there is pressure from the bosses to keep production going, believe me we have the same pressure, but what I see borders on incompetence! When I open a control box that has been worked on by these guys the wires literally fall out at me! There are splices everywhere, not proper splices mind you but bare wires just twisted together! There are components hanging by their wires and in general it looks like a 5th grader was working on things. We are running from machine to machine "putting out fires" 24/7. Last night was the last straw and is prompting me to post this rant. I won't try to explain the technical details but I will try to explain so you all understand. There is a type of machine called a VTL (vertical turret lathe) that the operator put in a work order for. I opened up the turret to troubleshoot and what I saw defied all reason. There are a series of proximity switches in a very small space to detect what tool is being used and if the tool is properly clamped. It's a small space with many wires in it and proper housekeeping of those wires is critical. When I took it apart to check things out I found all the wires melted together! Apparently when a sensor broke the UAW guys just clipped the wires and spiced a new one in instead of taking the time to take things apart and terminating the new sensor on the terminal strip in the back. I counted over 20 splices in a space no larger than 6"x6"!!! Needles to say everything shorted out and caused a large amount of damage to the control. This isn't an isolated case. Every machine that they worked on is like this!!! These guys are totally lazy and always took the easy way out instead of doing whats right and fixing things the proper way.

We get a lot of grief from the union people at the plant. We are called scabs and are accused of "stealing" their jobs. Then they b!tch about their jobs going overseas. They sabotage the machines just to make us look bad, put in repair tickets on a machine that is working just so they can sit on their azz's and generally work in a unprofessional way.

The UAW repairmen got away with this because they knew that the union would always bail them out and keep them from getting fired. They are getting paid in excess of $30/hour and the do the work that I wouldn't pay $5/hour for. I know of one UAW tech that has been there for over 30 years. At my last assignment I was giving "high level tech support" for the UAW techs at another building. I would walk up on a machine that this guy was assigned to fix and I would see him just punching buttons on the control hoping that it would magically fix itself. When I would ask what he found out so far and offered my help he would say "I don't know, it's just broke" and then he would sit his butt down and let me fix it. The man had no clue! I found out later that the rest of the crew would carry him. They would fix his problem for him and let him take the credit. This isn't an isolated instance. It happens in all the plants!

Bottom line- I hear all the b!tching and moaning about how are jobs are going overseas and how companies are busting unions. If this is the quality of union work then I say they have no one to blame than themselves.

Unions have their place in our country. But as long as they use the unions to act in an unprofessional way and to keep lazy people that are ripping off their employer then their days are numbered.

End of rant!

[Robor007 0]

That story reminds me of stories told to me by a friend who works with the Dept of Veterans Affairs. They have lazy and incompetent people working there and it's near impossible to fire then once they're hired and in the union. All they have to do is the bare minimum to get by in their jobs. It's not going to get them advanced but that doesn't matter because regardless of how poorly they perform they get annual raises based on union negotiations. Ah, our tax dollars at work...

[Emancipation 2]

Hubby & I were talking about this the other week after we heard of the Peter Paul chocolate factory closure here in Nagatuck (a small town CT town)

http://business.bostonherald.com/businessN...rticleid=196757

Labour (and the lack of unions) are cheaper in other countries simple fact. I'm not 100% that the Peter Paul plant is unionized - but i know other Hershey plants are.. so I'm guessing it played a part in the decision.. Sad really.

[almaty 19]

corporate greed is not mentioned yet...of course,, it is the Unions fought and not the corporations...they also, move non union plants too..

[Peikko 1,575]

Surely too many issues involved to simply shout 'union fault, stinky rotten union workers'. Of course, if you want to find 'one' reason for things going wrong it's easy to pick something like 'unions'.

[almaty 19]

Surely too many issues involved to simply shout 'union fault, stinky rotten union workers'. Of course, if you want to find 'one' reason for things going wrong it's easy to pick something like 'unions'.

amen

[GaryC 7]

corporate greed is not mentioned yet...of course,, it is the Unions fought and not the corporations...they also, move non union plants too..

I am not denying that there is corporate greed involved. Trust me I see it all the time. The bean counters will do some of the most stupid things imaginable to save a buck and to increase their bonuses but when I see sh!t like this I loose a lot of sympathy for the unions. So much money is wasted on laziness and outright fraud from the union workers that I can't say I blame the companies for busting unions and moving overseas. It has become an adversarial relationship and it works both ways. "Union made" used to mean something. It meant quality and efficiency but from what I see now that motto means waste and incompetence.

It's to bad I can't bring a camera to work. You would sh!t if you could see some examples of "union work".

Edited May 10, 2007 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gary, Gary, Gary... who hires the employees? Who has the authority to discipline and fire the employees over performance issues? Every union job I had, I was fully aware of the consequences of my job performance. For example, when I cashiered at a grocery store (UFCW), if my till at the end of the shift for over or short, there would a series of steps and consequences up to being fired. You're just buying into a stereotype that union workers are lazy and incompetent...on behalf of all union members out there, past and present...shame on you.

[isleta521 5]

I have an uncle who is an IBEW electrician and they have (or used too anyway) one of the toughest journeymen apprentices around. He will be the first to tell you that he is proud to be a union worker and he would also be the first to tell you that a bunch of chopfks take advantage of it also.

I believe some unions are good and strong while others are very weak. Many people take advantage of the system that is supposed to protect them and has given the Unions a bad name while others try to "agitate' the workplace to give themselves a reason to exist.

A lot of shops I had worked at were mostly non-union in my short machining career (14 yrs ) and I was always paid very well. The Union shops seem to breed a sense of non-motivation or stagnation if one is there long enough. I have heard people telling stories that you cannot even sweep your area clean because you are taking someone elses job away and could risk your tires being slashed. What you say I believe and is rediculous.

Now I have been working for the same small non-union company for the last 12 years where your work/pay is based on your input and motivation .

[GaryC 7]

Gary, Gary, Gary... who hires the employees? Who has the authority to discipline and fire the employees over performance issues? Every union job I had, I was fully aware of the consequences of my job performance. For example, when I cashiered at a grocery store (UFCW), if my till at the end of the shift for over or short, there would a series of steps and consequences up to being fired. You're just buying into a stereotype that union workers are lazy and incompetent...on behalf of all union members out there, past and present...shame on you.

I am not "buying" into anything. It is in my face every day for the last 2 years. As I also said I have spent about half of my working life in unions. Once in it is nearly impossible to get fired. (at least in the unions I have belonged to) It's not a stereotype when you see it first hand and realize it's the norm and not the exception. You worked for a service union. That is different from a manufacturing union. The UAW and the Teamsters are very powerful and they dictate to the company and not the other way around. That breeds complacency and laziness. I could go on and on with stories about workers that deserved to be fired but the union covered their butts to let them stay. This isn't a rant about something I read about, it isn't about politics, it isn't about conservative vs liberal. It is about right and wrong. What is happening in that plant is just wrong regardless of your political views.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gary, Gary, Gary... who hires the employees? Who has the authority to discipline and fire the employees over performance issues? Every union job I had, I was fully aware of the consequences of my job performance. For example, when I cashiered at a grocery store (UFCW), if my till at the end of the shift for over or short, there would a series of steps and consequences up to being fired. You're just buying into a stereotype that union workers are lazy and incompetent...on behalf of all union members out there, past and present...shame on you.

I am not "buying" into anything. It is in my face every day for the last 2 years. As I also said I have spent about half of my working life in unions. Once in it is nearly impossible to get fired. (at least in the unions I have belonged to) It's not a stereotype when you see it first hand and realize it's the norm and not the exception. You worked for a service union. That is different from a manufacturing union. The UAW and the Teamsters are very powerful and they dictate to the company and not the other way around. That breeds complacency and laziness. I could go on and on with stories about workers that deserved to be fired but the union covered their butts to let them stay. This isn't a rant about something I read about, it isn't about politics, it isn't about conservative vs liberal. It is about right and wrong. What is happening in that plant is just wrong regardless of your political views.

I used to also belong to the Teamsters when I worked for Costco, and people do get fired. You'll find lazy and incompetent people everywhere you work and it's got nothing to do with unions. Gary, firsthand experience and perceptions of lazy and incompetent workers does not equate to painting union members with a broad brush - it's stereotyping. Unless there is some specific provision within a union contract that you can demonstrate encourages laziness and incompetence, then you're just blowing hot air.

[GaryC 7]

I used to also belong to the Teamsters when I worked for Costco, and people do get fired. You'll find lazy and incompetent people everywhere you work and it's got nothing to do with unions. Gary, firsthand experience and perceptions of lazy and incompetent workers does not equate to painting union members with a broad brush - it's stereotyping. Unless there is some specific provision within a union contract that you can demonstrate encourages laziness and incompetence, then you're just blowing hot air.

So unless I can show you a "laziness" clause in the contract your going to blow off everything I say even though I see it first hand? What are you saying, I am making this stuff up? I am lying? This isn't a perception, this is reality. I have seen it in all the other union jobs I have had and not just at Cat. There are some that do a good job because it is their work ethic. There are others, and that is who I am referring to, that take advantage of the situation and f!ck off all day long. Unions are a good tool to gain safety, benefits and pay but this business of protecting lazy workers is ruining it for everyone. I am not anti-union but I have eyes. I see this stuff first hand and if you don't want to accept what I say as the truth then that is your problem and not mine. I am just saying that these guys shot themselves in the foot. They got lazy and complacent and it cost them their jobs. They have no room to gripe about it.

[Peikko 1,575]

Erm, how so? You have already said there are the lazy union guys and union guys with the strong work ethic, both species are being laid off because the company has outsourced for I would imagine a variety of reasons so...logically, it's not the fact that they are members of a union that makes the ones that are lazy, lazy, nor is that laziness per se the reason why their jobs are on the line.

Or are you suggesting that the unions go out of their way to protect the lazy guys because the unions see that as a reasonable union policy??? Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I used to also belong to the Teamsters when I worked for Costco, and people do get fired. You'll find lazy and incompetent people everywhere you work and it's got nothing to do with unions. Gary, firsthand experience and perceptions of lazy and incompetent workers does not equate to painting union members with a broad brush - it's stereotyping. Unless there is some specific provision within a union contract that you can demonstrate encourages laziness and incompetence, then you're just blowing hot air.

So unless I can show you a "laziness" clause in the contract your going to blow off everything I say even though I see it first hand? What are you saying, I am making this stuff up? I am lying? This isn't a perception, this is reality. I have seen it in all the other union jobs I have had and not just at Cat. There are some that do a good job because it is their work ethic. There are others, and that is who I am referring to, that take advantage of the situation and f!ck off all day long. Unions are a good tool to gain safety, benefits and pay but this business of protecting lazy workers is ruining it for everyone. I am not anti-union but I have eyes. I see this stuff first hand and if you don't want to accept what I say as the truth then that is your problem and not mine. I am just saying that these guys shot themselves in the foot. They got lazy and complacent and it cost them their jobs. They have no room to gripe about it.

I believe that you witnessed lazy and incompetent workers, but I'm challenging you on your belief that it's the union that encourages such types of employees to work there. It's not the unions who hire workers or fire them. What specific provision in the current union contract do believe protects and encourages lazy and incompetent union workers?

Edited May 10, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Dr_LHA 3]

Incidently if you need a CNC programmer, now I have my Green Card (and can work more than 1 job) I can contract myself out as one for $100 an hour. Any takers?

I can also program satellites and am non-Union.