The first layoffs from Trump’s tariffs are here

[Steeleballz 7,550]

22 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

 

You are missing a few things here. First of all they aren't making the parts overseas but rather making the parts here and assembling the finished product overseas (if they are even doing that overseas). Usually export taxes only apply to the finished product so that is a moot point. They could potentially assemble the finished product overseas but fabricating the parts overseas would be cost prohibitive considering a number of factors such as the cost of the machinery (one CNC machining center for example can cost as much as $1 million or more). Another factor is that Harley has a large share of their parts fabricated by outside companies such as the one I work for. For those and other reasons it may or may not be viable to assemble their products overseas but they certainly aren't going to fabricate their parts overseas to save a couple thousand dollars export tax per bike.

 

 

    I'm not sure what they are actually moving over seas, I was just responding to what you suggested. Their company statement so far was that they will be moving "some production" overseas.  I'm not sure where they have actually said what that will ultimately be. I also don't think Harley is going to eat thousands per bike sale in the long run either though. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 hours ago, jg121783 said:

 

You are missing a few things here. First of all they aren't making the parts overseas but rather making the parts here and assembling the finished product overseas (if they are even doing that overseas). Usually export taxes only apply to the finished product so that is a moot point. They could potentially assemble the finished product overseas but fabricating the parts overseas would be cost prohibitive considering a number of factors such as the cost of the machinery (one CNC machining center for example can cost as much as $1 million or more). Another factor is that Harley has a large share of their parts fabricated by outside companies such as the one I work for. For those and other reasons it may or may not be viable to assemble their products overseas but they certainly aren't going to fabricate their parts overseas to save a couple thousand dollars export tax per bike.

 

I had a Harley, but it's like a cult . Pay way too much for an inferior bike so you can be cool.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I had a Harley, but it's like a cult . Pay way too much for an inferior bike so you can be cool.

Been around them.  Never owned one.  Never understood the fascination. I much prefer scooters that are much quieter and go faster.

[jg121783 3,915]

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    I'm not sure what they are actually moving over seas, I was just responding to what you suggested. Their company statement so far was that they will be moving "some production" overseas.  I'm not sure where they have actually said what that will ultimately be. I also don't think Harley is going to eat thousands per bike sale in the long run either though. 

I was just explaining from my personal experience in the industry that if they do anything overseas it will likely be assembly rather than fabrication. Fabrication jobs are higher skilled jobs than assembly and generally pay a lot better. Couple that with the massive amount of sales in the US and I don't see any moves overseas having much of an impact on jobs. I'm not even sure at this point they will move anything overseas. 

 

I can say with almost 100% certainty the fabrication jobs will be staying here. Harley is not going to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the fabrication machinery needed to mass produce the hundreds of thousands of different parts for all of their products. Some of which require specialized machinery to produce. Not over a couple thousand dollar tax per bike. That math just doesn't add up.

 

As far as Harley eating a couple thousand in import fees goes they wont. They will pass it on to the customer who in most cases will gladly pay it. Harleys are unique items with a following worldwide that will pay a premium for their products. For example I have an ecommerce business where I occasionally sell things on eBay. Once I found 6 used Harley t-shirts at a thrift store for $1 each and flipped all of them on eBay within days for $25-$40 each and I took detailed pictures and fully disclosed the condition of them. I even sold one to a guy in Australia. All of that to say I don't see this Harley thing being an issue as far as tariffs go.

 

As far as the nail factory goes if a small jump in material costs is enough to put them out of business they were probably on their way out anyways and this was just the final nail in the coffin so to speak. The Washington compost really blew these things out of proportion but I would expect nothing less from a newspaper that has a seething anti Trump agenda.

[jg121783 3,915]

38 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I had a Harley, but it's like a cult . Pay way too much for an inferior bike so you can be cool.

That is why the tariffs will not noticeably affect Harley's sales. The customers will gladly absorb the cost. I live in WI about an hour away from their headquarters so I understand the cult following better than most.

Edited June 30, 2018 by jg121783

[Dashinka 24,493]

On 7/1/2018 at 6:37 AM, jg121783 said:

That is why the tariffs will not noticeably affect Harley's sales. The customers will gladly absorb the cost. I live in WI about an hour away from their headquarters so I understand the cult following better than most.

Not entirely true.  A few years back when the luxury tax was assessed on many products it all but decimated the luxury boat manufacturing here.  The assumption was that the rich folks buying these products would just pay it, but that assumption was wrong.

 

Personally I like Trump, but I am not a big fan of tariffs.  If his end goal is for all countries to eliminate all tariffs, then fine (I think he actually suggested that at the last G7), but if he just wants to try an protect a select few industries, then tariffs is the wrong way to do it.

[jg121783 3,915]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Not entirely true.  A few years back when the luxury tax was assessed on many products it all but decimated the luxury boat manufacturing here.  The assumption was that the rich folks buying these products would just pay it, but that assumption was wrong.

I wonder how much a luxury boat costs versus a Harley and how the taxes compare on the two. If it was a huge tax I could see your point but we're talking about a couple thousand dollars on a bike that could cost $20k-$30k or more. Most people paying that much won't have a problem absorbing a relatively small tax.

[Dashinka 24,493]

30 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

I wonder how much a luxury boat costs versus a Harley and how the taxes compare on the two. If it was a huge tax I could see your point but we're talking about a couple thousand dollars on a bike that could cost $20k-$30k or more. Most people paying that much won't have a problem absorbing a relatively small tax.

There are a lot of factors that go into the discriminating decision as to which bike to buy.  Of course in this country Harley has the reputation, but that may not be the case elsewhere so a few thousand dollars more might make a huge difference.

 

On another note, why is no one saying that these countries are trying to tamper with or sway our next election with their targeted tariffs?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

There are a lot of factors that go into the discriminating decision as to which bike to buy.  Of course in this country Harley has the reputation, but that may not be the case elsewhere so a few thousand dollars more might make a huge difference.

 

On another note, why is no one saying that these countries are trying to tamper with or sway our next election with their targeted tariffs?

 

  A foreign national spending money to influence a US election is a criminal act. It is also a criminal act for a US citizen to conspire or assist a foreign national in doing that.

 

 Retaliatory tariffs, on the other hand, are legal under international law. While it's generally legal for a country to retaliate with an equal monetary amount of tariffs placed on them, there are no requirements on what products they choose. What may be illegal is a false claim made under section 232 , which is why there are both domestic lawsuits and international complaints filed at the WTO.  Russia just filed a dispute today against the US over the use of section 232. China, the EU, Canada, Mexico and several other countries had previously filed a dispute.

[Dashinka 24,493]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  A foreign national spending money to influence a US election is a criminal act. It is also a criminal act for a US citizen to conspire or assist a foreign national in doing that.

 

 Retaliatory tariffs, on the other hand, are legal under international law. While it's generally legal for a country to retaliate with an equal monetary amount of tariffs placed on them, there are no requirements on what products they choose. What may be illegal is a false claim made under section 232 , which is why there are both domestic lawsuits and international complaints filed at the WTO.  Russia just filed a dispute today against the US over the use of section 232. China, the EU, Canada, Mexico and several other countries had previously filed a dispute.

Hillary’s team was never prosecuted for it.  I know, Hillary obsessed.

 

 

Regardless, I was joking.

[Keith & Arileidi 437]

8 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Hillary’s team was never prosecuted for it.  I know, Hillary obsessed.

 

 

Regardless, I was joking.

I guess the only thing you can do is joke when someone throws pile of reason at ya. 🤣😂

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

28 minutes ago, Keith & Arileidi said:

I guess the only thing you can do is joke when someone throws pile of reason at ya. 🤣😂

Piles of reason?  In CEHST??  Hardly.

[Dashinka 24,493]

6 hours ago, Keith & Arileidi said:

I guess the only thing you can do is joke when someone throws pile of reason at ya. 🤣😂

Actually, I believe my joke came first.

[Keith & Arileidi 437]

5 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Actually, I believe my joke came first.

Possibly... Hillary seems like a running VJ joke, but in this case...Your joke was 19 hours ago, steelballz answer to your question was 21 hours ago. 

 

The question you proposed: 

"On another note, why is no one saying that these countries are trying to tamper with or sway our next election with their targeted tariffs?"

 

Was a good question though, I have to admit. 

 

 

 

 

[Darnell 8,478]

Miracle Whip !   Yes, Campers, Miracle Whip ! 

 

Was a huge display of it in the 99-cent everything store last week, but the label was in HKG-Chinese.   Them tarrifs stopped the Miracle Whip slated for Hong Kong !  Blasphemy !