Forthcoming Asylum Rules Crackdown

[Boiler 45,467]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

True. Unfortunately people will never be 100% safe, but certainly MS13's reach in the US is less than it is on Mexico.

 

I like the idea of seeking asylum at the very country you enter, but that would quickly overwhelm specific countries around the world due to particular "hotspots" of instability. If a process like that was started, I would expect the US to work with allied countries to "share the load". Like it or not, we have the capacity to help far more than many countries. 

 

I'm all for looking at ways to reduce the "false asylum" seekers, and the actual "illegal immigrants". I just don't see legitimate asylum seekers as illegal immigrants, even if they did cross the border illegally. I think we have a moral responsibility to help those people and we should think very hard about any changes we make and whether that is going to impact those people who legitimately need help due to persecution in their home country. Finding ways for other countries to help "share the load" I'm also all for, as long as we recognize that we are lucky enough that we can provide substantial support for this problem due to our size, our economy, our stability and our strength. We should all feel blessed that we live in a country that is able to help so many other people around the world and bring people in who need help.

So anybody fleeing Mexico should be able to claim asylum?

[bcking 3,157]

42 minutes ago, Boiler said:

So anybody fleeing Mexico should be able to claim asylum?

I'm pretty sure the requirements for claiming asylum are quite minimal, so the answer is probably yes.

 

Now how many of them will end up having a legitimate asylum claim? Probably a small number. But certainly some will be legitimate.

 

What about harsh penalties for false asylum claims? If there I evidence that you were intentionally falsly claiming asylum, not only are you deported but you can't qualify for any visa for entry for 10 years, including future asylum claims. Something to make the number of people claiming it decrease.

 

There will always be real cases and I just don't want whatever we do to limit those actually people who are at risk from getting help.

Edited June 30, 2018 by bcking

[Dashinka 24,488]

I do like the part about anyone illegally crossing the border not being eligible to claim asylum.  What I don’t get is why don’t these folks go to the US or any other countries Consulates in their country and claim asylum, why take on an arduous journey across however many borders and then cross into the US illegally?

[Unidentified 2,930]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I do like the part about anyone illegally crossing the border not being eligible to claim asylum.  What I don’t get is why don’t these folks go to the US or any other countries Consulates in their country and claim asylum, why take on an arduous journey across however many borders and then cross into the US illegally?

What if they have been walking across the desert and comes to an area without a POE? I think everyone should have the right to ask for asylum but then send the ones back who doesn't have a legit claim. 

 

In Europe we have a bunch of boats coming over from Syria and other countries. I know some countries now have started to refuse these boats but is that really okay? 

 

As the same time as I don't like illegal immigrants coming into the country, I also don't want us to forget that these are human beings just like us. They all risk their lives coming here and I think we should treat them with respect, process them and then do what needs to be done either approve their asylum or send them back home. 

 

You can't apply for asylum at an embassy/consulate as you have to do that inside the US. "The United States does not grant asylum in its diplomatic premises abroad. Under U.S. law, the United States grants asylum only to aliens who are physically present in the United States."

 

There's a misconception that if you're at a US embassy, you're on US soil. It's not really true. An embassy is just protected from unlawful searcher etc from whatever country they're in, but it doesn't count as being on US soil. https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/rome/sections-offices/dhs/uscis/refugeesasylum/

 

[Boiler 45,467]

I am not going to say no boats come from Syria, but the vast majority are trafficked from North Africa, big business, push them out a few miles, abandon them and call up their partners to come and get them and take them the rest of the way.

 

Italy has had enough of this business model.

[Unidentified 2,930]

Just now, Boiler said:

I am not going to say no boats come from Syria, but the vast majority are trafficked from North Africa, big business, push them out a few miles, abandon them and call up their partners to come and get them and take them the rest of the way.

 

Italy has had enough of this business model.

It doesn't really matter where they come from. The point is people are dying on these boats and countries are starting to refuse them. Why not just make sure they have food, water medical care if need be and then see who has a valid claim on asylum and then get them back where they came from if they don't have a valid claim. 

 

Italy is not the only ones getting these boats. 

[Dashinka 24,488]

12 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

It doesn't really matter where they come from. The point is people are dying on these boats and countries are starting to refuse them. Why not just make sure they have food, water medical care if need be and then see who has a valid claim on asylum and then get them back where they came from if they don't have a valid claim. 

 

Italy is not the only ones getting these boats. 

 

30 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

What if they have been walking across the desert and comes to an area without a POE? I think everyone should have the right to ask for asylum but then send the ones back who doesn't have a legit claim. 

 

In Europe we have a bunch of boats coming over from Syria and other countries. I know some countries now have started to refuse these boats but is that really okay? 

 

As the same time as I don't like illegal immigrants coming into the country, I also don't want us to forget that these are human beings just like us. They all risk their lives coming here and I think we should treat them with respect, process them and then do what needs to be done either approve their asylum or send them back home. 

 

You can't apply for asylum at an embassy/consulate as you have to do that inside the US. "The United States does not grant asylum in its diplomatic premises abroad. Under U.S. law, the United States grants asylum only to aliens who are physically present in the United States."

 

There's a misconception that if you're at a US embassy, you're on US soil. It's not really true. An embassy is just protected from unlawful searcher etc from whatever country they're in, but it doesn't count as being on US soil. https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/rome/sections-offices/dhs/uscis/refugeesasylum/

 

So we should have no borders, or no sovereignty for any country?  If we had a wall that funneled folks coming to the border to a legal POE maybe things would be different, but it appears open borders is the desire.

[Unidentified 2,930]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

 

So we should have no borders, or no sovereignty for any country?  If we had a wall that funneled folks coming to the border to a legal POE maybe things would be different, but it appears open borders is the desire.

No, I think you need to re-read what I just said because I think you misunderstood the whole thing. 

[Dashinka 24,488]

Just now, Unidentified said:

No, I think you need to re-read what I just said because I think you misunderstood the whole thing. 

I did read it and you seemed to imply that if people get across illegally, or if a boat shows up on our shores we should abandon all rules and let them in.  We know that in the current environment only about 20% of asylum claims are granted, with the rule changes being proposed, I suppose that number may decrease, and quite honestly when someone decides to ignore the rules and cross into a country illegally, to me they are already showing a disdain for our laws, so why should we believe any asylum claim from them.  If one really has a legitimate asylum claim, make it at a consulate and save the journey and the payments to the coyotes.

[Unidentified 2,930]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

I did read it and you seemed to imply that if people get across illegally, or if a boat shows up on our shores we should abandon all rules and let them in.  We know that in the current environment only about 20% of asylum claims are granted, with the rule changes being proposed, I suppose that number may decrease, and quite honestly when someone decides to ignore the rules and cross into a country illegally, to me they are already showing a disdain for our laws, so why should we believe any asylum claim from them.  If one really has a legitimate asylum claim, make it at a consulate and save the journey and the payments to the coyotes.

 

I did not say that. I said we should let them claim asylum if they so wish and if they have a valid claim then they may stay otherwise they go back. Not all people disdain the laws and do this to "be mean" they legit are just running from hell. The US have criteria for what is a legit asylum claim, if they don't feel they have it they go back. 

 

Did you not read the part where it says you can't make asylum claims at the consulate?

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

so if they are not able to claim legitimate asylum you wish to leave them on the boat? Just give them food and water?

[Boiler 45,467]

29 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

It doesn't really matter where they come from. The point is people are dying on these boats and countries are starting to refuse them. Why not just make sure they have food, water medical care if need be and then see who has a valid claim on asylum and then get them back where they came from if they don't have a valid claim. 

 

Italy is not the only ones getting these boats. 

If a boat was floating of the coast of the US, people dying etc, would you take them to the US or Sweden?

[Dashinka 24,488]

3 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

I did not say that. I said we should let them claim asylum if they so wish and if they have a valid claim then they may stay otherwise they go back. Not all people disdain the laws and do this to "be mean" they legit are just running from hell. The US have criteria for what is a legit asylum claim, if they don't feel they have it they go back. 

 

Did you not read the part where it says you can't make asylum claims at the consulate?

So we need to do something relative to expediting these claims, and not just give them a catch and release appearance ticket.  No I did not know you couldn’t claim asylum at a consulate, I must have confused that with claiming refugee status.

 

Regardless, crossing the border illegally and without inspection is a criminal act which shows a disrespect for our laws.  

[Unidentified 2,930]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So we need to do something relative to expediting these claims, and not just give them a catch and release appearance ticket.  No I did not know you couldn’t claim asylum at a consulate, I must have confused that with claiming refugee status.

 

Regardless, crossing the border illegally and without inspection is a criminal act which shows a disrespect for our laws.  

1

So let's say hypothetically you're being chased by some idiot and your only choice is to get into Canada and claim asylum you wouldn't do so because you would disrespect their laws and you would rather be killed by that idiot?

 

How about that french girl visiting Canada who accidentally jogged right into the US?

Edited July 2, 2018 by Unidentified

[Dashinka 24,488]

12 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

So let's say hypothetically you're being chased by some idiot and your only choice is to get into Canada and claim asylum you wouldn't do so because you would disrespect their laws and you would rather be killed by that idiot?

 

How about that french girl visiting Canada who accidentally jogged right into the US?

Honestly, if I was being chased by some idiot I would turn an fight.  Also, doesn’t asylum require one to be persecuted based on one of five criteria/categories?

 

As to the girl that jogged into the US accidentally, was she planning on claiming asylum?  If not, I don’t really think that is a valid comparison unless you are claiming these folks crossing the US/Mexico border illegally are simply doing it by accident.  I don’t think that is the case.  As to that specific case, I think things were handled properly.  Btw, who actually goes out running with no form of identification.