Sarah Sanders says she was thrown out of Virginia restaurant because she works for Trump

[Unidentified 2,930]

14 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

All you have demonstrated by your responses is that a person regardless of what some pseudoscience says still has a freedom of choice, but thanks for playing. 

 

Nice deflection by the way.

 

And you just demonstrated once again that you haven't understood one single thing we've said.

[Dashinka 24,492]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

Self-identity is a personal choice yes. Sexual orientation is not EXACTLY the same as self-identity (I agree it's quite close), and it is ultimately not a choice. Ideally your identity is based purely on your feelings, but unfortunately for some people that isn't always the case. You can have a self-identity and a sexual orientation that are incongruous because you a choosing your identity, but not your orientation. Unfortunately this is a real struggle that many people have, mostly because the external influences on your identity can be quite powerful (family and societal pressure, fear, etc...).

 

Here is a good summary on the "Sexual Orientation Change Efforts" - http://www.apa.org/about/policy/sexual-orientation.aspx

 

"Although there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation, some individuals modified their sexual orientation identity (i.e., group membership and affiliation), behavior, and values (Nicolosi, Byrd, & Potts, 2000). They did so in a variety of ways and with varied and unpredictable outcomes, some of which were temporary (Beckstead & Morrow, 2004; Shidlo & Schroeder, 2002)."

 

I can choose to self-identify as a fish. I could join a club for fish, and I could affiliate with fish. I could sit in a pool and try to swim like a fish. I could value things that fish value (what do fish value?). None of that would mean I'm a fish. You can change how you identify, but you can't change who you are. Your feelings are part of who you are.

You guys just spent two pages demonstrating that it can absolutely be a choice based on a number of factors.  As to self-identity and sexual orientation not being the same thing, I agree, but a person can absolutely self-identify as any sexual orientation that choose, and I for one will respect their choices.

[Dashinka 24,492]

1 minute ago, Unidentified said:

And you just demonstrated once again that you haven't understood one single thing we've said.

I think you need to go back and read the last two pages, you may be hung up on a few things.  Regardless, I will definitely respect any sexual orientation anyone chooses to self identify as.

 

Again, thanks for playing.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Bill & Katya

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

You guys just spent two pages demonstrating that it can absolutely be a choice based on a number of factors.  As to self-identity and sexual orientation not being the same thing, I agree, but a person can absolutely self-identify as any sexual orientation that choose, and I for one will respect their choices.

"It" is the key here - What it are you referring to? Self-identity can absolutely be a choice. Your actual sexual orientation is not.

 

I don't like to repeat myself but once again - No one can tell you what your actual sexual orientation is (yet) since we lack the diagnostic tests, so the closest thing we have to your actual sexual orientation is your self-identity. But as I said several times, they aren't the same. They can be incongruous and it can be a source of significant distress for people. People can help guide you towards understanding your sexual orientation (Friends, family, therapists, whomever you like) so that your identity matches with how you feel. Or you can continue to keep an identity that doesn't match to your actual feelings. If that works for you, that's fine. But you still haven't changed your sexual orientation. There is no data to suggest that people can "force" themselves to not feel a certain way. They can just force themselves to not "outwardly express it".

 

We'll leave it at that. If you reply still not getting it, I'm not just going to repeat it over and over again.

[Unidentified 2,930]

6 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I think you need to go back and read the last two pages, you may be hung up on a few things.  Regardless, I will definitely respect any sexual orientation anyone chooses to self identify as.

 

Again, thanks for playing.

See bckings reply above mine for the answer as it's unnecessary to paraphrase something someone already told you. 

[Dashinka 24,492]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

"It" is the key here - What it are you referring to? Self-identity can absolutely be a choice. Your actual sexual orientation is not.

 

I don't like to repeat myself but once again - No one can tell you what your actual sexual orientation is (yet) since we lack the diagnostic tests, so the closest thing we have to your actual sexual orientation is your self-identity. But as I said several times, they aren't the same. They can be incongruous and it can be a source of significant distress for people. People can help guide you towards understanding your sexual orientation (Friends, family, therapists, whomever you like) so that your identity matches with how you feel. Or you can continue to keep an identity that doesn't match to your actual feelings. If that works for you, that's fine. But you still haven't changed your sexual orientation. There is no data to suggest that people can "force" themselves to not feel a certain way. They can just force themselves to not "outwardly express it".

 

We'll leave it at that. If you reply still not getting it, I'm not just going to repeat it over and over again.

So I am the one not getting it? 

 

 

 

[Unidentified 2,930]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

So I am the one not getting it? 

 

 

 

Clearly.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 hour ago, Unidentified said:

Well they have scientifically proven that we have gotten dumber the last decade or so, internet could definitely be a factor considering a lot of people seem to think EVERYTHING you read on the internet is true. They don't realize you have to have a critical mind and fact check what you're reading and check who the source is. 

I bet I have seen the bluegill is more dangerous than piranha and kills 20K per year on 6 different FB feeds.

 

I mean how stupid do you have to be 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

41 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

 

it can be fluid. For instance genetically I am a middle of  the road guy. sometimes based on emotion or environment I can be MDR or MDL. Maybe I am bi-lane or just MDL curious

[bcking 3,157]

8 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So I am the one not getting it? 

 

 

 

 Based on your repetitive questioning without evidence of understanding....

 

Yep. We finally agree. What a great high note to end this riveting discussion on.

Edited June 26, 2018 by bcking

[Dashinka 24,492]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

 Based on your repetitive questioning without evidence of understanding....

 

Yep. We finally agree.

We all agreed that self-identity is paramount and is a personal choice based on a lot of factors.  I asked earlier if we now had to all submit ourselves to neuropsychologists to validate our self-identities, and you seemed to say no, so if someone self-identifies (a personal choice) their sexual orientation their own way, and there is no other data to review, then to me we are all in agreement and must respect their choices.  The last two pages of your responses appears to validate this conclusion.

[Dashinka 24,492]

Let's get back on topic and talk about why the MDLer chose to continue the protest of the SHS party (without here and her husband) into a more public setting As @Cyberfx1024 posted?  In the beginning, the restaurant staff was praised for keeping this quiet and being classy, I guess that went out the window.

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

We all agreed that self-identity is paramount and is a personal choice based on a lot of factors.  I asked earlier if we now had to all submit ourselves to neuropsychologists to validate our self-identities, and you seemed to say no, so if someone self-identifies (a personal choice) their sexual orientation their own way, and there is no other data to review, then to me we are all in agreement and must respect their choices.  The last two pages of your responses appears to validate this conclusion.

All of that is true. 

 

That person still can't change their sexual orientation, whether they identify with it or not.

 

Seriously I can't keep repeating myself. I actually am done at this point. Yoi can educate yourself elsewhere, if you are interested (though you don't seem to be).

 

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

Let's get back on topic and talk about why the MDLer chose to continue the protest of the SHS party (without here and her husband) into a more public setting As @Cyberfx1024 posted?  In the beginning, the restaurant staff was praised for keeping this quiet and being classy, I guess that went out the window.

Yes please.

 

Seems like we need to get one of them to this forum to ask them. Any leads?

[Dashinka 24,492]

Just now, bcking said:

All of that is true. 

 

That person still can't change their sexual orientation, whether they identify with it or not.

 

Seriously I can't keep repeating myself. I actually am done at this point. Yoi can educate yourself elsewhere, if you are interested (though you don't seem to be).

 

Yes please.

 

Seems like we need to get one of them to this forum to ask them. Any leads?

The story was posted a few pages back.  Daily Mail UK.

 

Enough said on the other subject.

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

The story was posted a few pages back.  Daily Mail UK.

 

Enough said on the other subject.

Ya I read it. You said why did they do it, I said you would probably have to ask them.

 

Despite what many people think most people on this forum are quite reasonable and moderate. Not sure anyone here would support following a family from one place to another to publicly protest and harass them. So not sure any of us will have the answer to your question.